a small KP test for you...

T

thanar

Registered
Hello,

I am a new user here and I think this forum is quite up to date regarding Panther builds. Panther build which for sometime now don't fall into my hands, unfortunetally, but that's another story.

I was testing the build that came out on WWDC shortly after it leaked and managed to find a bug that follows OS X since public beta! The bug seems to be related to a documented (a hard to find documentation, really) leak on the OpenGL core of the system or the ATI/nVidia drivers. It occurs not so often, but:

I found a way to reproduce the bug under Panther, thanx to expose. Here's the way, I hope you give it a try...
- Download Celectia, a great 3D space simulator from here
- Install it and test it (it worked on the build I tried it on)
- Make Celestia's window somehow small (like the default)
- Activate expose, open a bunch of windows, play with expose in various ways
- Maximize the Celestia window while fooling around with expose
- Tada (for me)! Watch the KP sceen and start wondering...

I mean, how can an OpenGL bug date THAT back? Now, I don't want to hear voices saying thet maybe there's something wrong with the application's code... Theory is, that Mac OS X cannot be crashed by just a poorly-written application.

I hope you'll have some reports soon...
 
Send Apple a bug report stating the exact steps you took to get a kernel panic. In fact, I'm going to start suggesting this to everyone who posts about panicing as one of the last steps to take.
 
That's good Arden, especially for thanar and others that have come by Panther illegally.
 
I think apple would still appreciate it. What's the loss of a "free" (concerning the costs) beta compared to the info about a bug?
 
i think there are only a few here that have the copy legally bob, no need to get too high and mighty ;)
 
The bug, if repeatable (I don't want no KPs myself), _should_ be reported to Apple. If it's an OpenGL bug (and not Apple's), then it should be reported to SGI instead.
 
it might not be a bug with apple, have you tried the same methods with any other game?

i had a similar crashing (no kp though) with black and white until it was updated some long time ago :confused:
 
Hello again...

I see that none of the (legal and illegal) owners of Panther have tried this little test.

I have send tens of bug reports to Apple, everytime something the has to do with OpenGL screws up the system. The same used to happen (or still happens, I'm not sure) while playing Myth III under OS X. After 2-3 hours of gameplay, the game starts crawling and then the system hangs. I had some private e-mails coming and going with one of those responsible for the Mac OS X port of the game and he stated that it was due to a bug in Apple's implementation of OpenGL.

The only reason I ever -illegaly- downloaded the Panther build was because I wanted to search for bugs, I wanted to feel confident that the next major release would be a more stable one. I have no problem paying for my favourite System Software I use every day (and night as well)...
And guess what! This bug (which is related to the other hangs and crashes when playing OpenGL games, for me at least) is still here! Plus, Panther gives me a way to reproduce it!

I am courius, though... Don't you have the couriosity to test it out yourselves? I am an illegal ownder of Panther (although I have erased it sometime ago) who claims he's found a way to reproduce a KP. Isn't that interesting enough for you? I don't know... maybe it works only for me!

Don't worry, Celestia isn't a virus or a trojan! Who would code a multiple-MB trojan, anyway? Once you delete it, it's gone! Plus, it's open source, download the code, check it and compile it yourself if you like!

Oh... Celestia is not a game! It's a space simulator, like the old "Starry Night" only with OpenGL graphics and lots more abilities...
 
Well, I have a perfectly legal copy of 7B49, and no matter how much messing around I do as per Thanar's instructions, I can see no problems with OpenGL, KP or anything else so either I am not following the instructions properly or the problem has been fixed.

Havent had a kernel panic on any of the 'B' betas so far.....
 
OK, people, seems like -a- I have a faulty computer or -b- they finally fixed the OpenGL leaks. I will have to try it myself, then...

I'll ask politelly for a fresh build then, I guess. Will be back to let you know as soon as I find out, OK?

btw, there's been just one person who tested Celestia, chrisjasper, right? Maybe some more should give it a try... :)
 
Another possibility - the problem is in the video card driver. Then, a certain sequence of OpenGL calls passing through the particular driver would produce a crash, only if you have the same video cards.

In fact video card drivers are one of the most common causes of crashes - they have to have access to hardware, which means they pretty much need to run in kernel mode, i.e. to be able to run as part of the OS, able to crash the kernel royally, etc.

But, they are not usually written with the same quality control as the OS code - smaller number of installed users, rush to get them out the door, then abandonment as the next video card comes out, and of course a Mac driver will usually get second priority at a company that sells 90% Windows installed drivers.
 
thanar - what version of Celestia?

edit - never mind, if I read the page myself it becomes obvious... Funny how that works
 
It's v.1.3.0 of Celestia, the latest one. I didn't quite get your edit, scruffy...

The thing is that I used to have a Quicksilver G4 with an ATI gfx card and now I have a dual 867 MDD with a GeForce card and the problem is still here.

Mind you, though, it is too difficult to reproduce it under Jaguar, so I was just very happy that I found a way under Panther to easily reproduce it... At least on the version of Panther I had!
 
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