Apple's deception

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romendo you havent bought many mac s from apple right when they came out, apple always has a huge demand for there latest greatest thing that they can never meet, it was the same thing with my original imac and it will probably be the same with the the 15 inch powerbook when that comes out too
 
romendo: You start off with a thesis. Apple's deceiving people. You give some (strange) info. When people prove you wrong, you start dodging your original info and put new things out. The theme stays the same. You say that Apple's deceiving people. Well, even if you'd be right in some cases - which you don't seem to be - it's still quite easily put. That's called ADVERTISING.
 
obviously with "end of september" its an estimate. if they gave a specific date, then it would be possibly deception... but even then, like previously stated, there are manufacturing setbacks etc that may cause delays.

unless apple says "you will all have g5's in your hands on sept 25, guaranteed." its not really deception IMHO
 
The G5 will be at 3 Ghz by Sept. 2004, guaranteed. If not, Apple deceived us.
 
Arden I like your "Click here to troubleshoot OS X" part of your signature :D It reminds me the signature of someone else that I know ;)

As for Apple: Bad Apple! Bad company! Bad Apple! :p
 
Yeah, I forgot to add the credit it now has when I put it in there. Again, my thanks.
 
Well, page 2 pretty much summed up what I was thinking... Nothing will ever be perfect here on earth (except for Jesus :) ). Get used to it.

Take it from me, the biggest perfectionist I know. I am constantly frustrated by the most minor of details. I get mad at Hewlett-Packard for lower-casing ALL of their words. Just... don't expect perfection when it's not possible. Steve isn't all-powerful afterall...

"Perfection is the mortal enemy of 'good enough' "
 
I actually agree with Romendo. [Romendo, remember that we Mac people are very touchy, knee jerky and have incredible abilities to deny reality ;) ]. In fact, the main reason why I did not order a G5 was because I wanted all the information to settle first. I made that mistake with the G4, which was completely overhyped and overrated (Altivec, shmaltivec). But don't let me get off on a tangent.

Apple are masters of hype and I have swallowed much Koolaid in my day. I have every intention of going G5, but only if it truly delivers. (I suspect it will deliver quite nicely BTW. My own insider testers put the G5 1.6 on par with a DP 1.4...not bad).

As for Romendo's point, I find the AGP 8x completely misleading in the same kind of way that the DDR RAM thing was with the last batch of G4s. [Everyone remember that? Anyone want to defend Apple on that one?] If Apple is touting it as a feature/benefit, then it should actually have a benefit. DDR RAM had no benefit. Likewise, AGP 8x appears to have little or no benefit (currently). [Kind of like how FW800 has very little benefit right now for the average user] Whether or not that's ATI's fault or not doesn't matter. The simpe fact is that I, as a customer, am using information that Apple is giving me to make a purchsing decision. It is a reasonable assumption for a consumer that if a feature such as 8x is touted, then the benefits of 8x should be delivered. Nowhere (to my knowledge) does Apple say "Now with AGP 8x, perfect for when 8x cards actually catch up to our infrastructure."

I admit, I am not thoroughly up to speed on all the little details, so I will gladly admit to being wrong if I am, but after doing a tiny bit of research on ATI's site:

http://mirror.ati.com/products/radeon9800/radeon9800prome/specs.html

System Requirements
Mac® OS X 10.2.5 or later
AGP 4x or 2x capable Macintosh®

There is no mention of 8x support. Sure, the card will run in an 8x slot, but that's not the point. The point is whether there is any benefit to doing so. In other words, if the G5 was exactly the same, but just had a 4x AGP slot instead of the 8x, would it [the 9800] run the same. Based on this information, the answer is that indeed it would run the same, thus no benefit and Romendo has a valid point. Can someone point me to where ATI says the 9800 takes full advantage of 8x technology? I'm not being sarcastic, I'd just like to see it. Barefeats speculates so, but they don't provide a source.

Misleading information is utterly rampant in advertising. Notice how a lot of things are now Megabits instead of Megabytes cuz it sounds like more? Hard drive speeds have long been way overstated (theoretical bandwidths barely achievable in the most perfect of situations), printer speeds based on absurdly small coverage, cartridge lifespans based on minimal coverage, the list goes on and on. This 8x may just be another example.

Having said that, clearly having 8x is better than not having it. Presumably somebody will make a card that REALLY takes advantage of it.

FWIW-I run an ad agency and have worked with some of the best ad gurus on the planet. I've got a bit of a POV when it comes to such things.

I don't pretend to be an expert on this particular technology, but I definitely think Romendo has a point, and is not trolling. I guess I can't say I'm surprised by the reactions, however.
 
Seems like you missed reading some of the posts mindbend. The retail version of the Radeon 9800, is 2/4x AGP, BUT, the one that comes with the G5 IS 8X AGP.

The reason that the retail one is 4x max is because there weren't any Macs that had 8x ports, so why would they make one? Now there is, and you can buy the 8x version with your G5.

Take a look here and read near the bottom:
...a 256-bit wide memory interface and support for the AGP 8X standard...
Click to expand...
That is talking about the Radeon 9800 Pro.

I believe the DDR RAM did bring some benefit, but it was not as much as it could have been, had they upped the bus speed of the motherboard.
 
Thanks for the info. [Beavis voice] Um, that like changes things and stuff. If it does actually provide a significant benefit (remains to be seen IMHO), then ignore my 8X comments, cuz like I didn't know what I was talking about and stuff. I stand by the remainder of my post.
 
Originally posted by mindbend
Thanks for the info. [Beavis voice] Um, that like changes things and stuff. If it does actually provide a significant benefit (remains to be seen IMHO), then ignore my 8X comments, cuz like I didn't know what I was talking about and stuff. I stand by the remainder of my post.
Click to expand...

Just a piece from your previous post:
"I actually agree with Romendo. [ Romendo, remember that we Mac people are very touchy, knee jerky and have incredible abilities to deny reality ;) ]"

So, were you describing yourself and Romendo to us? :p

At least you accepted the fact that you didn't know what you were talking about UNLIKE Romendo... :rolleyes:
 
I have to ask the question: What did you guys do when Apple started shipping AGP slots?

The reason I ask is that at the time the AGP G4 had an ATI Rage 128 installed, but ATI was only retailing PCI versions of the ATI Rage 128 card for Macs. Buy the argument of some people here I would have to think that you thought Apple was selling ATI Rage 128 PCI cards in their AGP enabled Macs.

Lets make this perfectly clear for everyone, if you think you are getting a retail version of an ATI card in the G5 then you have no idea of the relationship between ATI and Apple. They are not the same card. The card that comes with the G5 is a specially made part for Apple. Even when ATI starts selling ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 8x AGP cards for the Mac to the public, there aren't going to be the same as the OEM part that Apple installed.

And as has already been pointed out, what would be the reason for ATI to make available the 8x version for Macs that don't have 8x slots? More important, Apple has a deal with ATI right now NOT to sell the 8x version to the public (it would cut in on the build-to-order option offered by Apple). Don't expect to see a retail 9800 in an 8x version until long after Apple is shipping them as standard equipment.

Apple Computer does not put their systems together with parts off the shelves of your local computer store.

This thread really is just trolling and FUD. You should all know better by now... complaining about the price of Macs and all.
 
Don't forget that Panther will cost 129$, .mac costs 99$ and that Intel/AMD is far better than a "Mac processor". ;-) Moreover, Apple will switch to X86 anyway. Oh, and yes: Apple is deceiving us. :p

(Can someone close this thread, please? The original subject has long been solved.)
 
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