Browserwar turnaround?

I'm greatly looking forward to 10.1, I have a very hard time going back to 9.2 (Yes I'm running 9.2 on my G4) 9.2 has been awsome, but since it's a very early beta, some of the extensions have expired, now I just need to wait for 9.2 to be fully released. The speed and compatability increase with classic is extremly noticable on my computer.

When I was talking about small, I was reffering to the footprint left on the system. iCab tends to take up less system resources than IE or OmniWeb. IE at idle with no windows takes up 2.4% CPU, iCab right now as I type this is only taking up 8%. OmniWeb is decent on CPU usage. iCab is my personal fav. right now, even though it lacks stability and some compatability.
 
I know this is picky but JAVA and JAVA script are 2 completely different things.....they have the same suffix (JAVA) but they are 2 COMPLETELY different things...........................and as we all know X does not really support JAVA at all...

I am sorry but i am a web designer...and i hate the fact that many people confuses JAVA and JAVAscript...just cause they have a similar name....
 
Well...sorry if my english is not perfect.....at least i speak 4 languages.....anyway..prefix or suffix..Java and Javascript are 2 different world..
 
What languages do you speak ?


also, the official name of javascript (at least in standards termns) is EMCAScript.
 
"Matrix Agent" wrote:
So the optimal browser would have the features of OmniWeb, but in the compactness of iCab, all run at the speed of Opera?
Click to expand...

That is quite a idiotic thing to say.

The only desirable thing is a browser that has the features of Mozilla. Everything is irrelevant and will spell the death of the open internet.
 
Now, Peppo, as a first time poster, you desrve some slack. BUT, I'm sure that there are better ways to get your opinion across. So you like Mozzilla? OK with me, but you dont have to flame everyone who likes anything different. We're disscussing the future of browsers, not how desirable and irrelevant you think things are. This forum isn't like others, we're not here to troll and flame anyone, so either find out a way to be a little more diplomatic or you just plain leave. And if you are the kind of person who made a separate login name purely for the reason of insulting me, then you also need to learn how to take responsibility for your own words.


This is the end of this conversation, this will not turn into another "spoiling 10.1" thread.
 
Have you tried Opera. Its a really good browser - really fast (well at least much faster than IE!) Doesn't even crash like IE does... hope they fix IE in OSX soon, or replace it, because i'm getting sick of the 'beachball' freezing and crashing.
 
I saw some of those posts back there claiming that the biggest advantage of browsers other than IE, is that it's not Microsoft. I think that's kinda silly.

It's true that Microsoft puts out alot of garbage (Windows 2000, and XP, namely); however, they have also been working hard to put out great Mac apps. Microsoft's Macintosh applications have always been far ahead of their Windows cousins. They are typically more stable, feature packed, and more attractive. (As seen in Office, and the previews for Office 10.)

I think IE is no exception. On my first Mac, it took me only two weeks to ditch Netscape. I still go back from time to time to give it another shot, but IE has always been better. Smaller, faster, always ahead in the feature department, and the best looking.

Also, remember that IE 5.1 is still a preview, or beta, or whatever they're calling it now. From what rumors I've heard about the final edition, it will be quick and stable.

Don't dis IE for Mac, or any other Microsoft Mac products, just because their parent company happens to be run by the son of the prince of darkness. Just think of the Mac division of Microsoft as a completely different company. I do. I'm sure Bill Gates does too.
 
I on the other hand cannot swallow IE's apperance :p

My main browser is Netscape Nav 4.77
I have iCab, Opera, IE 5, lynx and omni as well to test my web pages out on, On OS X I prefer omni.


Admiral
 
Omniweb blows... it's slow and almost as bad as Netscape 4.x when it comes to standards.

Netscape 6.1 - I gave up on Netscape when IE 5 came out.

Opera - I like it, but it's not the best thing on OS X.

IE 5.1 - 3 weeks, hasn't crashed and still the most compliant browser out there. I'm obviously not the biggest fan of MS if I'm using Mac, but when they do something right (albeit seldomly), MS does it well.

To those of you still using 4.0 browsers, get ready for hell as more and more designers design for compliant browsers.
 
I would like to point out that version number is irrelevent.
A browser can come out today as XbrowX 0.112359 and it can be the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to browsers.

second thing are web designers. Web designers should ALWAYS design with the standards set in place by standards bodies like the W3C and not design their stuff for a particular browser.


Admiral
 
Admiral,

The problem with designing is the clients tho. They want their sites available to nearly everyone running anything.

To be honest, this is where I wish there was a monopoly or even better, for the W3C to be responsible for putting out a browser.

And you're right, version numbers don't mean anything more than a point of reference.

With more browsers coming out, for my personal sites, I'm adding to a script that basically says either IE 5 and higher, NN 6 or Opera. Anything else (OmniWeb, iCab, older versions) don't get access. It's a sad thing, but it brings a simplicity to my life.

--natis
 
To shut everyone out like that is wrong.
If it's your personal page, fine, do what you wish. Fir a company it can cost $$$$.

I have tested my personal web site out with several browsers to make sure it works at least a little, but I do have a help page (or at least I did) that said NN for best results, IE and other browsers might not look optimal + enter at your own peril. I think this is the wisest thing to do

And finally, a monopoly on ANY technology has a stunt effect, and that would be bad for the evolution of any technology. I would not give ANY company any sort of monopoly, competition is good. I would however hold the W3C responsible to giving out some sort of certification to browsers. If a browser meets their standard they give it a badge or something, so people (hopefully) will use certified browsers.

Admiral

PS: Boston aint that bad...although I dont like the weather we are having this time of year:p ...were's the sun ???? :eek:
 
The Natester said...
Don't dis IE for Mac, or any other Microsoft Mac products, just because their parent company happens to be run by the son of the prince of darkness. Just think of the Mac division of Microsoft as a completely different company. I do. I'm sure Bill Gates does too.
.......

I like IE for Mac also, and I'm convinced it's in fact better than its Windoze counterpart. But make no mistake about the Mac division being separate from the Evil Empire, and don't claim to speak for Bill (I don't want to think that lowly of you).

When IE is the only browser out there (almost already), open standards and competition will be gone. The web will work the way Bill wants it to work and you won't have one thing to say about it.

Paranoid? Maybe. But you know, when you sit down next to a guy and he hits you in the face, and then you sit down next to him again and he hits you in the face again, and then you sit down next to him again and he hits you in the face again...how bloody do you have to be before you pick up a bat?

When iCab or Opera finish working out the kinks (assuming they can do it before Microsoft ruins the web), I will gladly pay $50 or more for either browser. I'm willing to pay for quality software, especially software that doesn't carry a world domination shadow. My wallet is my bat, and it can't be controlled by Microsoft (because I'm not a Passport member).

Typing this message in Opera, by the way.
 
Omniweb...

Ok, on my beige G3, I've noticed that cocoa applications run at least twice as fast as most carbon apps. Not that one is better than the other, its just fact that on a slower computer carbon is a lot slower (atleast as far as I've seen).

So, on my system, Omniweb is faster than Opera, mozilla, and exploder.

As far as standards go, if I can't view a page in Omni, I just ssh to a linux box, fire up my x server, and run netscape 6 remotely. (And if that doesn't do it, lynx is the way to go. After that, the web page just isn't worthy...)

I link omni web, and I like the onmi group, too. I think its important for the Macintosh Community t support projects from Omni and Opera. Netscape and Exploder can die for all I care. I've loved netscape sence the early 90's, but now its dying. Its bloated and bulky ;-)

If we support Omnigroup and the Opera people, maybe they will be encouraged to invent and create a more better product.

(side note: Cattering to various browsers does suck. I've developed many a web site for many a client, and within 2 days of every page going up I allways get a few of those "[something you worked hard on] doesn't work on [client's outdated web browser]". Oh well, at least ya get some dough!)
 
I'm glad you mentioned that, homerb. I also believe that monopolies are an awful idea, stifling new ideas, and removing the freedom to choose. I'm very happy to see other programmers and developers writing new browsers (or anything else, for that matter).
I would not say that I'm loyal to Microsoft, only that I'm currently loyal to IE, until a better product comes along - which it seems, may be happening shortly. I prefer to use the best product until a better one comes along. I'd simply rather not waste my time.
That's what I meant, by not dissing Microsoft. Although almost all of the time, they have been more trouble than not, it is also good to remember that there are exceptions to many rules, and this is one of them.
 
What I really hope is that when OS X 10.1 is released, there will be a preinstalled version of OmniWeb and IE. With this anti-trust thingie, I can't believe that Apple would support them by only preinstalling one browser.
Click to expand...

Thats a VERY good idea. The Mac OS X Setup Assistant would ask: "What Web Browser would you like?". It would then list several browsers (IE, NN, OW, iCab, Opera) and display info for each one. You select one, and then it is installed from the CD (since it is still in from Install). If you want to add more or change browsers, one woud click a 'Browser' button, and a Sheet would drop down from the Internet Preferences pane. Pop in the Install CD, select one, and there you go!

However, seeing untill Apple and MS have a deal untill 2002 (i think:confused: ), if this is added, it will be at least 10.2
 
Although it seems Apple does have a deal with Microsoft, I still hold to the belief that the only reason IE was the only app bundled with OS X was because there were no others out of beta.
Apple had been working closely with Microsoft on IE, and probably felt that it was the only browser close enough to ready to be bundled. (Of course, that's turned out to be untrue - they won't be ready until 10.1, as we all know.)
I would not be surprised at all if 10.1 comes also includes at least OmniWeb, and likely others. (Possibly even Netscape, if it works.) Apple has always given it's users a choice when available, I certainly hope they always will.
 
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