flacochala
I`m in!!
i have an ibook and i need to know how can i burn a 700 mb cd, because when i insert a cd the finder shows me only 660 free mb, how can i burn 700 mb of data in a single cd???? thanxss
burning problems
- Thread starter flacochala
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Pengu
Digital Music Pimp
um. no. i think this is a bug in the finder. if you use Toast, you can write 700mb to a 700mb disk. 700mb disks are in actual fact ~800mb, but the rest is use for checksumming. audio CDs don't use checksumming, so you can get 80mins, (cd-audio is almost exactly 10mb per minute, and 80x10=100)
the finder however, also displays 660 of 670mb available (9mb used for hidden files) on my new g5...
the finder however, also displays 660 of 670mb available (9mb used for hidden files) on my new g5...
Not a bug, just the Finder doesn't allow over-burns like some programs do. I would assume Apple is limiting it to ensure compatibility of the burnt CDs with older drives.
Another factor is not every CD is manufactured the same. Some are Yugos and some are Bentleys. Some 700mb CDs will hold 690mb of info, some will only hold 660mb. Depends on sectors and other stuff, which I'm not even going to get into...we'd be here all day. Below are some links to read up on it if anyone's interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R
http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_oversize.shtml
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-6
Another factor is not every CD is manufactured the same. Some are Yugos and some are Bentleys. Some 700mb CDs will hold 690mb of info, some will only hold 660mb. Depends on sectors and other stuff, which I'm not even going to get into...we'd be here all day. Below are some links to read up on it if anyone's interested.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R
http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/cd_oversize.shtml
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-6
Pengu
Digital Music Pimp
overburns? right. so a company deliberately markets a CD as 700mb when it's actually 670 and the extra 30mb is a bonus? how come iTunes will burn a full 80 minutes to a 700mb/80min CD-R, but the finder only sees the same discs as 670mb? seems to me it IS a finder only thing. maybe not a bug. maybe old code from 10.1/10.2/OpenStep when burning was limited to 650mb (maybe 670 was 650mb disc plus 20mb for good measure?)
perfessor101
Registered
Apple does not consider it a bug. If you remember that in OS X, space on a hard drive or an optical drive is reported in binary where k=1024. So 1024*1024*660=692,060,160.00 bytes. Allowing for rounding that is approximately the 700,000,00 bytes decimal where k=1,000 advertised by the manufacturer of the media.Pengu said:
The media manufacturer uses decimal because it creates the impression of greater capacity on the HD or CD. OS X uses the binary value because that is actually how data is stored and accounted for on the drive/media.
Toast chooses to use the decimal (k=1,000) value, because that is what is printed on the CD package. But in truth you are still storing the same total number of Bytes on the CD. This confusion is exactly why there is a movement in the physics community to use the term KB when K=1,000 and KBi when k=1,024. In spite of some ardent supporters of this new notation, it does not seem to be gaining much, if any, headway in the computing community.
In Jaguar, the Apple System Profiler reported drive and media capacity in both binary and decimal, but for whatever reason, that was dropped in Panther which only reports in binary. That is why the 180 GB HD I paid for only has 167.68 GB in ASP.
Pengu
Digital Music Pimp
Um. i beg to differ about the binary/decimal thing. these are screenshots i just took at home before coming to work.
this quite clearly shows that the Finder shows the files as 700mb BINARY or 733.6mb DECIMAL.
Toast quite clearly shows the files as 701.1mb. This obviously has to be the same binary value, with 1.1mb of say, desktop files, slightly different rounding of file values, etc.
Toast also reports one of the TDK 700mb discs as 702mb. so quite clearly it ISN'T just that toast reports in decimal.
this quite clearly shows that the Finder shows the files as 700mb BINARY or 733.6mb DECIMAL.
Toast quite clearly shows the files as 701.1mb. This obviously has to be the same binary value, with 1.1mb of say, desktop files, slightly different rounding of file values, etc.
Toast also reports one of the TDK 700mb discs as 702mb. so quite clearly it ISN'T just that toast reports in decimal.
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Pengu said:
The difference comes from bytes/block on an Audio CD compared to a data CD. Follow this link and have a look at the chart about mid-way down the page. Audio CDs waste less area on a cd than a data one will. Plus, they're not figured as being burnt by MBs. An audio CD is figure on length in minutes. Why do you think they specify that 80mins next to the 700mb on the CD?
Pengu said:
Nope. You're a bit confused there. It's not showing the files as both. It's showing it only in binary. That 733.6 you're quoting isn't MBs, it's 733,689,800 bytes. Look at the screenshot you posted and it's very clear. It literally says: "700 MB on disk (733,689,800 bytes) for 3 items".
Let's try this again.
---------------------------------------------------------------
1000 scale: 1mb (megabyte) = 1 000 kilobytes = 1 000 000 bytes (decimal)
1024 scale: 1mb (megabyte) = 1 024 kilobytes = 1 024 000bytes
(floppy)
1048 scale: 1mb (mebibyte) = 1 048 kilobytes = 1*048*576 bytes
(binary)
So, 700mb in decimal (7000 * 1) is 7,000,000 bytes. 700mb in floppy (7000 * 1.024) is 7,168,000 byes. 700mb in binary (7000 * 1.048) is 7,336,000 bytes.
---------------------------------------------------------------
According to your screen shots the finder is showing the files size in binary (1048 byte KB). As we've seen, 700mb is approx. 7,336,000 bytes in binary.
So that 700MB CD's size (which is based on the decimal method) would be 667.93MB according to the Finder/OS X which uses the binary method.
In other words: 700 decimal MBs are the same as 668 binary MBs.
If it still isn't clear, think about a baker's dozen vs. a proper dozen. A baker's dozen is 13 while a proper dozen is 12. Just because they don't match doesn't mean one is correct and the other isn't. Just means you have to know which version you want or which version the recipe calling for a dozen eggs is specifying.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte
Pengu
Digital Music Pimp
you quite clearly stated "toast displays things differently to the finder" when it CLEARLY doesn't. my point is this. I don't care what you call the units. the finder shows 700Megabytes. using 1024. toast sees it as the SAME SIZE and CAN BURN IT TO A CD. why can't the finder do the same? simply. a bug. or an under-developed feature.
Actually, that was a different poster.
The finder is showing 700mb @ 1048 in your screenshot...do the math yourself, math never lies. If you're still wanting proof of this, then do the following:
- Open Disk Utility
- Click Images>New>Blank Image
- Enter a name for the image in the save as box, then click on the drop down next to size (40mb selected most likely) and choose either 10mb or 100mb (easier to divide by). I used 10mb.
- Click Create
Once that's done, it'll create a nice fresh image at exactly 10mb (or 100mb disk image if that's what you selected) in size. It should show up under disk utility beneath your hard drive.
Click on that new image then look at the bottom right corner of the Disk Utility app window under total capacity. What does it say there?
Total Capacity : 10.0 MB (10,485,760 Bytes)
What's 10,485,760 divided by 10? (Oh, if you did a 100mb image then divide the number of Bytes it shows by 100) [[ 1mb (mebibyte) = 1 048 kilobytes = 1,048,576 bytes (binary) ]]
Not every CD brand is exactly the same. I currently use Memorex CD-Rs and when I mount a blank one the finder shows a capacity of 670mb with an available space of 660.7mb (9.3mb already being used for the file system). However, the Imation branded CD-Rs I had before thess had slightly different numbers there...about 1mb or so. The point here is there can be small differences among disk manufacturers. Not 100% the problem here, but still something to keep in mind.
Since we know for a fact that CDs and Hard Drives are based on the decimal version of a MB, let's do the math again (math doesn't lie) and figure out what the 670 binary MB the finder is reporting would be in decimal MB the disc manufacturers use. 670MB * 1.048 = 702.16MB
Yea me! I'm getting and extra 2.16mb for FREE from my 700MB CD-Rs!
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Of course, there's other possibilities why Toast might be able to squeeze a bit extra on each CD. One is format...the Finder is burning in a HFS Plus / ISO 9660 hybrid format. Not 100% sure what toast is using, as they don't tell you anywhere on their site other than calling it 'hybrid Mac/PC' format, but knowing Roxio/Adaptec's history it's most likely a proprietary format of some kind. They might even be nudging the limits a bit and over-burning the discs slightly.
Try burning a disk with Toast set to ISO 9660 format only. Then try the custom hybrid setting (HFS+/ISO9660). I'd be willing to bet you'll fit a bit less on one of those than their proprietary format.
The finder is showing 700mb @ 1048 in your screenshot...do the math yourself, math never lies. If you're still wanting proof of this, then do the following:
- Open Disk Utility
- Click Images>New>Blank Image
- Enter a name for the image in the save as box, then click on the drop down next to size (40mb selected most likely) and choose either 10mb or 100mb (easier to divide by). I used 10mb.
- Click Create
Once that's done, it'll create a nice fresh image at exactly 10mb (or 100mb disk image if that's what you selected) in size. It should show up under disk utility beneath your hard drive.
Click on that new image then look at the bottom right corner of the Disk Utility app window under total capacity. What does it say there?
Total Capacity : 10.0 MB (10,485,760 Bytes)
What's 10,485,760 divided by 10? (Oh, if you did a 100mb image then divide the number of Bytes it shows by 100) [[ 1mb (mebibyte) = 1 048 kilobytes = 1,048,576 bytes (binary) ]]
Not every CD brand is exactly the same. I currently use Memorex CD-Rs and when I mount a blank one the finder shows a capacity of 670mb with an available space of 660.7mb (9.3mb already being used for the file system). However, the Imation branded CD-Rs I had before thess had slightly different numbers there...about 1mb or so. The point here is there can be small differences among disk manufacturers. Not 100% the problem here, but still something to keep in mind.
Since we know for a fact that CDs and Hard Drives are based on the decimal version of a MB, let's do the math again (math doesn't lie) and figure out what the 670 binary MB the finder is reporting would be in decimal MB the disc manufacturers use. 670MB * 1.048 = 702.16MB
Yea me! I'm getting and extra 2.16mb for FREE from my 700MB CD-Rs!
-----
Of course, there's other possibilities why Toast might be able to squeeze a bit extra on each CD. One is format...the Finder is burning in a HFS Plus / ISO 9660 hybrid format. Not 100% sure what toast is using, as they don't tell you anywhere on their site other than calling it 'hybrid Mac/PC' format, but knowing Roxio/Adaptec's history it's most likely a proprietary format of some kind. They might even be nudging the limits a bit and over-burning the discs slightly.
Try burning a disk with Toast set to ISO 9660 format only. Then try the custom hybrid setting (HFS+/ISO9660). I'd be willing to bet you'll fit a bit less on one of those than their proprietary format.
Pengu
Digital Music Pimp
um. ok. toast is reporting the CD as 700Mb BEOFRE anything is written, so it doesn't know what format it's going to be. I have never had any problem on os9, osx or Windows burning 700 megabytes of data to a 700megabyte file. only now that i look under the Finder does it do this..
Is it? Looking at the screenshot you provided it's showing exactly the same MB as the total of the files you've got in the list. Of course it knows what format it's going to be, look at your screenshot. It's there plain as day already selected.
Try burning that exact same data with the Custom Hybrid setting they have (which is close to the format the Finder uses), then let us know. You're comparing CDs wrote with differing formats right now, which is akin to comparing Apples to Oranges or G3s to G5s. Of course they're not the same, nor should you expect them to be.
Windows doesn't write HFS+/ISO 9660 hybrid CDs either. I can tell you under XP Pro (built-in burning) the max you'll get on a CD is around 680MB of files, however that CD doesn't work across platforms as well as one burnt with the Finder.
Try burning that exact same data with the Custom Hybrid setting they have (which is close to the format the Finder uses), then let us know. You're comparing CDs wrote with differing formats right now, which is akin to comparing Apples to Oranges or G3s to G5s. Of course they're not the same, nor should you expect them to be.
Windows doesn't write HFS+/ISO 9660 hybrid CDs either. I can tell you under XP Pro (built-in burning) the max you'll get on a CD is around 680MB of files, however that CD doesn't work across platforms as well as one burnt with the Finder.
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flacochala
I`m in!!
thanxss satcomer, that hint really works... i can burn my 700 mb cds now!!!!