Can I apply WIN style drive usage to OS X 2.8?

H

haybarn

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I'm a longtime, and sometimes long-suffering Windows user (since v. 1!). My wife prefers a Mac G4 (dual 867 w/1gb ram) running Jaguar. She started having disk space problems, which forced us to look at how the three HD's (2 60gb and 1 40gb) were being used (a 4th Firewire 120gb external is used for backups). She was down to less than 2gb on her Macintosh HD). We deleted a lot of old docs and duplicates to get it up to 3.1gb free.

I understand that OS X sets up Application, Library and User folders on the C: drive (Macintosh HD), and that my wife's "work product" is supposed to be saved in her document folder within her user folder. Over the years (there has never been a reinstall of Jaguar) , we found various applications under her home/documents folder, text files in her applications folder, etc. all on the root drive. My wife approaches computers like this, "I tell it to save and it saves. I tell it to install, and it installs." She used to teach computers (Macs) to kindergarten kids, without wanting/needing to know how things worked inside the chassis.

I reduced many of my Win issues years ago when I limited my C: drive to WinXP and all applications. I religiously denied installation attempts to place default data folders as subdirectories of their respective apps. I placed all Data files on D:, and all Updates (e.g. preinstallation zips, etc.) on E:, along with a large, fixed swapfile. By doing this, it was easy to reinstall the OS and various apps without loss of data, and easy to backup the D drive more frequently than the C and E.

We cannot seem to do this with her Mac. Nor can we control where things get saved or installed by default. It is probably time for a fresh install of Jaguar, but I'd like to be able to set it up differently than the default. I searched this forum and found individual topics for moving swap and user folders, but no assurances that a reinstall or upgrade of OS X will not do what it wants the next time.

Is this a case of trying to impose "ancient" Win strategies on a Mac? Any assistance, better ways, let the Mac do what it wants or other advice welcome.
 
No, these are not ancient Windows strategies, they are ancient CP/M strategies. MS-DOS inherited drive letters from CP/M, which IIRC came from DEC RT/11. Rather than hanging on to anachronisms from the 1960s and 1970s, you should learn how to use your Mac as a Mac. With certain exceptions, you are pretty much free to put stuff wherever you want. MacOS X's Applications, Documents, Music, Movies, and Pictures folders are suggestions rather than requirements (with a few exceptions).
 
I have to concur with MisterMe on this one. You're better off learning how to use the system how it's meant to be used instead of trying to apply the mechanisms of another system. You'll just set yourself up for frustration.
 
Thanks, MisterMe and Nixgeek.

I accept your advice in the big picture sense. At the more detailed level, none of the Mac OS X manuals tell me even rudimentary info on how to make use of multiple drives. Every Mac sales person says the same thing - "just let the Mac do what it wants." It seems to us that the mess we have is a result of just that, letting the OS use whatever defaults it setup on installation, or perhaps no defaults at all. We have not directed new apps to be installed in the "Documents" folder, or quickbooks files in the Application folder, but there they are. It's like being told "don't worry about how unsanitary our kitchen is - just enjoy your meal."

My conclusion is Windows is harder to use, easier to customize (e.g. very simple changes instruct "My Documents" and a swapfile to be on a different hard drives.) Macs are easier to use but one must learn linux to move the "Users", "Home" or swapfile equivalents to other drives. We are willing to learn how to use a Mac the way it wants us to use it, as opposed to the way we want to use it, but the lessons seem to depend on technical forums like this, not in Help or Apple manuals. Until we learn some complex 'hows', our "Data" drive is just a nice icon where we can copy, but not direct all data files to.

We love the Mac in all other respects.
 
Well, the drives work in a hierarchical level (for the most part, partly to blame on Mac OS X, not the Classic Mac OS which was truly hierarchical)

The Desktop is meant to be at the top of the hierarchy (remember that the Mac OS was inspired by the original GUI from Xerox PARC). From there, any drives that are attached fall underneath the "root" level of the Mac OS hierarchy. It's basically Desktop-->Drives-->Folders-->Files. In Windows, it's not that hierarchical. The Desktop isn't considered the top of the hierarchy. Instead, the drive (or drive letter) is considered the "root" and the desktop falls underneath that root drive (same thing happens in Linux when using desktop environments like GNOME or KDE, but the drives aren't assigned letters).

It's very easy to make any folder in Mac OS X, Linux, or any other non-MS operating system the default for what you want it to be. There's no arcane way of doing it. Heck, you don't even need to store your documents in My Documents when in Windows. It's really up to you. As far as applications, however, Windows tends to be a little more strict than other operating systems, but I think this is more to blame on the software developer than it is on the operating system itself. In Mac OS X, Linux, or any other OS you can run an application from any place you decide to install it. In Linux, I have some apps running in my home directory while others are in /usr/bin. In Mac OS X, they are usually put in Applications as that gives other users in the system access to it (since it makes sense to find an app in the Applications folder), but it doesn't have to be there in order to use it. I can have the apps located in my Home directory or anywhere I please and it will still run. I can also move it from that location and not worry about it breaking (which is a common issue in Windows, especially if the developer used .dll files).

I truly think that you're making this harder than it really needs to be. The Mac is meant to be very intuitive. There are no set rules for apps or documents....just guidelines. Mind you, I don't recommend you renaming the System folder since a lot of what Mac OS X needs to run as an operating system is there and renaming it will cause problems. Same for Classic Mac operating systems, Windows, Linux, etc. Common practice is not to change any system folders/directories unless you love causing pain to yourself. :) Sure, you can't change the Users folder (Mac OS X) or /home folder (Linux, other free UNIX OSes), but see what happens to your profile when you change the Documents and Settings folder on a Windows computer (this is where the profiles of each Windows user on that PC is stored). While somewhat different, it's really more similar than you think.
 
This is helpful, Nixgeek. This all started when we were almost out of drive space. Moving some key folders ala Windows was my first thought on how to gain breathing room, and we had two additional HD's already installed but underutilized. Not so much wanting to change the Mac system concept as making better use of the hardware.

You're right - I sure appreciate not having to worry about registry breaks and BSD's with the Mac! My wife is the user of the Mac, and does not have any trouble with the interface or finding her stuff - just finding room to put it. I guess the choice is to either follow the complex steps to move her user or home directory to another drive (posted elsewhere on this website), or simply start moving and saving some data to another drive. Not sure which route to take. One of these days, she'll get a new Mac with Tiger and want whatever we do now to be preserved.
 
Mission largely accomplished:

  • did not move Users or Home folders given warnings on OS X update screwups.
  • moved Photo Library (not iPhoto Library) to another drive and repointed iPhoto
  • deLocalized OS to be US English only
  • cleaned out caches
  • deleted unused apps and data files

Discoveries:
  • annual iPhoto archiving to DVD of albums ("2002, 2003", etc.) does not remove original source files from iPhoto Library. In Photoshop Elements for PC, deletions offer optional checkbox to "delete from hard drive" . We did not realize that we were recovering so little HD space from archiving. Would like to relocate iPhoto Library too but fearful of breaking iPhoto links.
  • for some reason, cleaning caches with YASU removed our desktop photo - easily restored but unexpected.

Gained about 15gb on 60gb drive so lots of breathing room for OS X. Will also try to relocate iTunes folder to another drive.
 
You do face an interesting problem. From my experience, non-Apple apps tend to be happy wherever you put them. Many apps can be installed simply by dragging them to where you want them. Many have installers instead. They could be dragged to an Applications (or whatever) directory on one of the external drives.

You could also create a Documents folder on one of your larger drives. You could then direct each of her applications to save to the Documents folder by saving a test file into that folder. From then on, those applications should default to your new Documents folder.

Now, it's been a few years since I've used 10.2 so I'm not sure what kinds of quirks you're having to work around. You might consider upgrading your iMac to 10.3 Panther or 10.4 Tiger. Panther is less expensive. Both are much more polished than 10.2. You'll probably find them faster too.

It looks like you built your own PC. If you're feeling adventurous, you could even crack open that iMac and replace the (IDE) hard drive with something larger if you wanted to. There's actually a heat pipe running through the thing, and you'd need to re-apply some thermal paste. There are some good instructions on the Internet, I believe.

Just some ideas for you. I have an iMac G4 that's old and slow but in my opinion it's the coolest machine out there. Gutsy design.

Doug
 
Thanks for those workarounds and ideas, DKT. I should have said Powermac G4. I've been inside it a few times, adding memory, two more drives, etc. It is built so solidly - what they claim about Mac hardware is true. Nothing flimsy anywhere!

Her next machine will be an iMac 20" with Parallels so we can run win and os x. That's when we'll catch up to Tiger or beyond.

I'll try the file save idea. Took so long for me to figure out that the iPhoto Library and Photo Library, both inside the Pictures folder are two different things. Have to go back and move the source files in iPhoto Library, too. Much to learn about things that are old hat to me on a pc. I find the Mac help files useless - never have answers to simple things like deleting a partition, or offering a fix in AppleWorks when I'm talking about another app. . Have to figure things out for myself with help from forums like his. Then there are the little irritations like trying to resize a window using any corner or the edges and remembering that I can only do it on the lower right corner, which is usually off-screen. Much to like, too.

I've built about a dozen pcs so feel at home with them and every version of Win.
 
I agree with you about the help files. I can't believe how incredibly slow the help program is. And I have a newer Mac! The help files were useless in OS X 10.1 and they're still almost useless. Too bad.

BTW, I switched from Windows (XP) in 2002. I don't have any Windows machines anymore. Don't miss them, except for games.

Doug
 
Oh, a PowerMac G4. That's much easier to get into than an iMac!

I agree with you about the help files. I can't believe how incredibly slow the help program is. And I have a newer Mac! The help files were useless in OS X 10.1 and they're still almost useless. Too bad.

BTW, I switched from Windows (XP) in 2002. I don't have any Windows machines anymore. Don't miss them, except for games.

Doug
 
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