Cars... Let's see who drives what

[rinse]

while testuser makes a good point (and one that i was well aware of when i made my post)...

i was more or less basing the geographical breakdown on headquarters / traditional thought regarding automakers. in todays global market it is difficult to pin a point of orgin down for virtually any product. (i.e electronics, furnishings, appliances, etc)


as a sidenote:
Ford also owns LandRover (who was once owned by BMW)

and Chrysler doesn't really *own* Mercedes... It is more a partnership of sorts as evidenced by the company's name "Daimler Chrysler"

 

[alexachucarro]

What about the Renault Megane Scenic that I drive?

You could never tell that this is a US site. There are people OUTSIDE the US you know. Germans/Brits/Italians and the French probably make the best cars ever. Maybe the Japs are OK too? But come on guys, your cars are too heavy. The Ozzies like them though...

 

[kilowatt]

I drive a 1998 Chrysler Concord. Its shampane in color, and it has a 5/8's wave 2meter antenna on the back. Normally there's something outragious on the top, but not lately.

My family also owns a 1998 Lincolin Continental (black - my friends call it my 'mob car').

As well as a 1990 Black Jeep Cherokey (which still has American Motors parts in it, its not completely chryslered)

And, to top it off....

A 1983 Delorean DMC-12. (Yes, the same car from back to the future - well not the exact same....) Ours does not have the standard Volvo 120hp engine though. We have a Chevy 4.6liter V6 It rocks, and does well over 90mph in third gear.... and it has 5 not that I'd know what it does in 5th or anything.. heh


Whew

 

[twyg]

Oh for gripes sake!

I will tell you this only once. Do not stereotype me with the arrogant american stereotype if you please.

Let me share with you a story about one of the most arrogant, ignorant people I know. She went to France on vacation. When she came back I asked her how it was. She replied that she had problems "communicating". When I asked her if it was due to her French being rusty she replied "No, nobody spoke English."

WHAT!!!!!! FOR F***'s SAKE!!??

Needless to say I damn near back handed her. She chased after me asking me what the problem was and I finally told her... "When you visit someones home, do you tell them how to arrange their space, do you tell them what to cook, and how to cook, do you run around and 'own' everyone, should they do everything to appease you? When you're in France the people speak F-R-E-N-C-H you ignorant fool." She looked at me perplexed. "But... everyone told me that English is the international language." I simply walked away in disgust. It may be the international language, but that doesn't mean that everyone should "cow-tow" to you.

So, do me a little favor, don't lump me into that stereotype that is what most nationalities call "american." I'm damn proud of how far america has come, and what americans are, but the arrogance and ignorance is not something I embrace, nor approve of.

I would hope that this is a clear message that while I'm american, and I didn't make an overwhelming attemt to include other car manufacturers it was not my intention to exclude people and countries. I do offer apology for that.

Please keep in mind that why I'm reacting so strongly is because this is not about just cars, it's about how the world views americans on the whole. I wish we didn't have this stereotype, but we do. I also feel that most americans on this board are good people, but don't be that lady... Please let's work to turn this stereotype around. *Note: This also applies to world peace. We all know it won't happen tomorrow, but we still need to make an effort all the same...

*slides the soap box off to the side*

 

[edX]

in twyg's defense, i must point out that he did an equally horrible job of including american cars. he really narrowed them down to a few particular models when there are probably hunderds more. I will grant you i am american as well, but i think twyg just threw a poll together off the top of his head, made it fit as best he could with only ten spots and managed to start this cool thread where everybody is talking about cars and learning a little more about each other rather than just what mac they use. or whether they like aol

btw testuser - i also get my hands dirty with the car pretty often. a 1987 astro needs more than oil changes on a regular basis. i do less now than i used to because i can afford to a little bit better. but i have changed more starters than i care to count over the course of all my vehicles.
but that is one great thing about computers -" i like to work with my hands but i don't have to get my fingernails dirty". he he - anybody remember that commercial?

 

[Matrix Agent]

dead on twyg.

 

[alexachucarro]

As a European, and as someone who works at the 2nd busiest international airport in the world, it's difficult to stereotype. But we must ask ourselves where do these stereotypes come from? People don't just sit there and wonder what to make up.

I recently took my Kiwi girlfriend to Paris for a week. She was shocked at the rudeness of some French people. Therefore, she will remember the Frence for being rude to foreigners. It may be a stereotype, but as a whole they are!!! But again at the same time it's very embaressing being part of the football hooligan country that is England. We go to a country, drink too much, start fights and demand everyone speaks English. Look what we did with the old colonised countries:

USA - Stole it from Native Americans
Australia - Sent our convicts there, then stole it from Aboriginals
New Zealand - Stole it from the Mauri
Canade - Stole it from Inuits (with a little help from the French)
Wales - We'll have that
Scotland - We'll have that
Ireland - tried to have ALL of it
South Africa - Nice sunshine: have it

And it's most embaressing when looking at our past, and truley the only reason why we're not like the Americans is because we're a tiny little island. If we had that much land, WE would be the country that everyone hates.

And working at an Airport I observe a very multicultural world. And I do feel sorry for some of you Yanks, as a LOT of countries don't exactly love you. The biggest mistake I ever made was calling a Canadian an American, wow.

I guess many of the reasons is because you're the fattest kid in the playground with all of the toys and many feel like you're forcing others to play how you want them to play. Also seeing as you're such a young country many see you as unwise and standing on the shoulders of giants. Giants being the British Empire (unarguably the largest empire in human history), the Romans the people who started changing the planet.

But what I am trying to say is maybe it's just your country's media that is the major problem. Take a second out and FAIRLY try to think who REALLY won the space race?

First artificial satellite - Russians
First Animal in space - Russians
First Human in space - Russians
First Space Station - Russians
First moon landing - Americans

So you can see that drawing up the most pivotal moments of the 20th century, it seems that the Russians were on top. Yet ask even an English man: "who won the space race" 90% will answer "the Americans". How is that possible? Maybe that's what it's all about? Who knows. I'd blame your TV situation personally.

I read that over 60% of High School grads could not point out the USA on an unmarked globe.... that's worrying, especially when you have all the missles......

 

[Jadey]

I still drive a jeep.

 

[chemistry_geek]

I drive a 1992 Saturn SL2, purchased in August of 1991. Saturn has its model change-over in August of every year - rather early, I know. It was ordered brand-new from the dealer since none existed with the color I wanted with AC, anti-lock brakes, and the top-of-the-line stereo (previous post somewhere on this forum explains my audiophile toys). This car just turned 182,000 miles today arriving back from a short across-the-state trip. Hands down, the best car I've ever owned since at that time it had one of General Motors' best designed engines ever (in tests, it DID NOT blow up when revved to 15,000 rpm for 13 minutes - from an engineering journal). The engine is basically a smaller version of the Quad-4: dual overhead cams, 4 valves/cylinder, multiport fuel injection, TUNED HEADER (came stock on the car).

Slowest I driven the car: 0 mph - sleeping at a rest stop.

Fastest I've driven the car: 130 mph - Toledo, OH to Farmington Hills, Michigan in 40 minutes for Thanksgiving Day. Luckily, NO TICKET!

Normal cruising speed on the turnpike/toll highway: 85mph to 100mph. My foot weighs about 30 lbs.

In case you're wondering, I spent my teenage years racing my uncle's Porsche 911, so don't any of you get ideas that anyone can drive fast safely - you can't without good judgement, knowlege of your cars abilities, good weather, and extras on your car that improve it's performance.

 

[CloudNine]

1980 Honda Express moped.

This wildcat has a fearsome two-stroke engine that can top 20MPH going downhill. That's right my friends, a chainsaw with wheels, FROM HELLLLL.

Zero to sixty you ask? Hah hahhh baby, in yourrr dreeeams!

And if it even has horsepower, you can be sure that it's one really old, sick horse. Expect to get anything from a wave to a salute to a middle finger as you cruise the backroads with its powder blue frame and "Evil Inside" sticker plastered on its air filter cap.

Oh yes, with all the girls that'll point and laugh when they see you riding this righteous firebrand, well let's just say they don't call it a two-stroke for it's unforgiving sex appeal...

 

[edX]

wow Cloudnine, that sounds like it is just barely better than the original chain driven cars that honda made

 

[RacerX]

posted by alexachucarro
But what I am trying to say is maybe it's just your country's media that is the major problem. Take a second out and FAIRLY try to think who REALLY won the space race?

Yeah, they must have won, but lets look at some of their other feats, shall we.

First Death in Space: Soviet
Second Death in Space: Soviet
Third Death in Space: Soviet
etc.

(NOTE: There was no more a Russia at the time than there was a Georgia, there was only the Soviet Union. People in their program came from all over the CCCP)

And we did win in the only way that the space race mattered, which was in the context of the Cold War. There was no other reason for it, the space race was just an extension of the arms race.

I read that over 60% of High School grads could not point out the USA on an unmarked globe.... that's worrying, especially when you have all the missles......

That sounds more like propaganda that fact, but maybe it's just your country's media that is the major problem.

But what do I know, I must be one of those dumb Americans.

 

[alexachucarro]

Originally posted by testuser
How can you dismiss American cars and then say, "Germans/Brits/Italians and the French probably make the best cars ever". How could you rationally include British cars with the rest? Please.

Well let me start.

Your coveted NASCAR Racing - they're ALL British companies.

Champ Car Racing - ALL British

Formula 1, undoubtedly the best performance cars in the world. Almost 50% are British. There's Arrows, Jordan, McClaren, Benetton, BAR (Half American), Jaguar, Williams. Then the rest are French, Japanese, German and a Swiss Team. Apart from BAR, who really needed US Dollars, there are no US teams in the F1 circle.

World Rally Championship - (In my opinion a better skilled driver in more difficult conditions):

Citroen - French
Ford - British Division. US owned company.
Hyundai - Korean
Mitsubishi - Japanese
Pergeot - French
Skoda - Czech
Subaru - Japanese

And the worlds best production car, the McClaren F1. Some would say a couple of Ferraris, even still. NO American cars.

US cars look comfortable and big, and guzzle petrol at a ludicrous rate and are very, very heavy. Many match your cars to your personas. No country in the world has cars as big as Americans. The Australians are dangerously close though!

So we can see that a lot of the worlds money comes from the US, but 90% of the expertise is European or Japanese. Over 50% of parts in the US Air Force fighters are British or French. Especially the engines. Over 90% of the engines in the airline industry are British. Need I go on. World land speed record, British. And that was privately funded!!! If the EU ever becomes a single country, as the US is. Then it would become a very large influence on the planet, as is the US now. Even as we speak Oil companies are pricing barrels in euros instead of US dollars.

So I do respect your thirst for scientific research and medical advances, but I think if we all had to put one country at the top of technology REGARDLESS OF MONEY, it has to be the Japs. We get close, but we're too lazy. The US would also come close, but there's a region of your country called The South (who still fly Confederate flags??!!! What's that about) that kinda pulls your nation down.

No offence to any Southerners here. He he he, I can't for the comeback of this thread!!!

Lets get personal.

RacerX: that fact was from CBS News (which I think is Canadian or American) and USA Today, which I read now and again at Gatwick Airport. We get US channels in the UK. About 30. How many foreign channels are there in the USA?

 

[rinse]

this topic has become to politcial!

gah!

 

[Matrix Agent]

OK, so i'm an american, and i think that this whole sterotyping is uncalled for, but inevitable. If your country is going to be a leader, who's to say that people can't disagree with them? Even if sometimes the disagreement is just because some people feel that it is chic.

Agreements with Alex:

1. American cars SUCK. What happened to performance, durability, efficiency, design, style, ect.?

Its just not there. There is no realistic reason to like an american brand. Even because of all that "made in the USA" crap, its just not true, this is a world economy.

I'd rather have a BMW, Audi, MB or VW any day. And so does everyone else I know.

But still, big hulking cars are considered a luxury.

My father has a fleet car from his business. Problably as some measure of status, they decided to give him a Oldsmobile. What crap!He hates driving it, but does anyway because he doesn't have to pay for the gas, and it keeps the miles off our japanese cars.

2. The South

Wow, i know i just went off on sterotypes up a little ways, but i'm going to go ahead an talk about a specific "group" in the south, please do not be offeneded. Like Alex said, whats up with the confederate flag? Yeah right,"Its part of my heritage." Well mister, I hope you're proud of your heritage, shedding blood to keep the insistution of slavery alive. I hope your proud that when democracy didn't work out in your interests, you threw a temper tantrum and seceeded. It just doesn't make sense, please board the next train to modern days. This is one country, this is no northen or western conspiracy. Get rid of your resentment. People still take the civil war personally, like it just happened. Like if i was to say "The South lost the war", i would be dissing your mother. No one thinks that the same people who fought for the south, are the same people during there today, so don't get defensive and make people think that the same opinions are still there. I recently had the chance to talk about the civil war with a group of students from georgia. When i mentioned sherman, the general who used total war strategies to totally decapactitate the south, all i heard was outrage that he had done such a thing, as though it had never been done before, and hadn't been done since. Don't take it personally, OK? Its just history, it doesn't make me a good person, or you a bad person, me a judge, and you an outlaw.

So how about those cars?

 

[alexachucarro]

Originally posted by testuser
I'm not going to make a long argument. This thread risks becoming a US vs England imbroglio.

Imbroglio is a great word to start with. And I'm trying top make a more of a:

"know your place" vibe. More US vs The Planet.

In fact the British Range Rover is heavier and sucks more gas than my car![/B]

OK, so you graciously choose examples of cars that suited you. But, your President refused to go to international environment convention. And he's started to tap Alaska for it's oil.

The US has appalling standards when it comes to pollution. Here in the EU we have cars that are banned for being 2dB too loud!!! Which is stupid. But then the EU is a very touchy subject with Brits and could spawn an entire forum.

Second you shoot yourself in the foot with your race car argument for British superiority.[/B]

That's what I was getting at. It's a British company. 100% autonomy from the US. But all American money. That's my WHOLE point.

Comparing racing otherwise is like comparing apples and oranges.[/B]

But the point I was trying to make was that all your favourite racing is foreign technology.

I'm not going to dispute the highly dubious claims about jet engines[/B]

My cousin used to be in the Navy and had a boyfriend who was a Royal Marine Engineer. ie fixes Harrier Jump Jets. (which has got to be the coollest jet ever!!! it's that or the F-14). But if you need more info, check out this US site:

http://www.ultimateaviationlinks.com/airparman.html

I'm sorry if I come accross as British Superiority as that's what the rest of the world is pissed off at the Yanks for. All I'm saying is, look at the world with different eyes.

We made a film called The Madness of King George III. (III - as in The Third). But we had to drop the "III" bit as most Americans then wondered where the two prequals had gone......

Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone - American kids didn't know what a Philosopher is, so they renamed it
Harry Potter and the Scorcerer's Stone.

Things like that piss off non-Americans the most. A philosophers and a scorcerer are completely different things. Stuff like that.


Ahhhh never mind. I shant post any more replies to this thread as we must agree to disagree. Just get rid of Bush!!!

 

[edX]

not getting involved in the car war thing and am not to going to dignify alex's ignorance of the southern u.s. But Matrix Agent, get your scrawny butt up and listen a minute:

1st: the civil war was not fought over the issue of slavery. slavery was made an issue after the war had started. at the beginning of the civil war, both sides were slavers. the south went to war over econmic issues that threatened their prosperity and favored northern industrialism. It wasn't much different than the american revolution except that the revolt lost. yes, it was good that slavery was abolished as a result, but it was a byproduct of the war - not the issue behind it.
2nd - sherman was a loon and a butcher. yes there have been others like him but that doesn't make it ok to destroy a people and their way of life just because you can. in the modern era he would have been tried for war crimes with any luck at all. of course he might have 'gotten off' by reason of insanity. He is not someone any Ohioian should be proud of as having been born in Lancaster. The north would have won anyway.

and i guess now that i am going i will say a little about the south in general - there are ignorant people doing stupid things anywhere you go in the world. the south does not have a monoploy on this.

 

[Matrix Agent]

Ed, good points. I would have to disagree on why the civil war was fought though. The civil war was fought over slavery, I don't hold any illusions that emancipation was the utimate goal of the war, I believe that the emancipation was nothing more than a political manuever by the republicans to control parts of the south by gaining black votes. I do not think that economic pressures were the cause of the civil war, the tariff had always been up in arms, jackson even had threatened to send down troops at one time, what happened was that the south (as well as the north) took a hardened stance on the issues, and refused to budge on anything. As a result, you see a bunch of compromise bills like the compromise of 1850 and the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Each new state becomes the stage for each side to let the other know it hasn't budged. When the Dred Scott decision in 1857 by chief justice roger taney, appointed by jackson, ruled that it was illegal for congress to regulate slavery, the north got desperate and became more radical, electing lincoln for his republican views of "containing" slavery.

The civil war was mainly caused by the tensions developed by the two sections over slavery. I just don't see economics coming into play here. Sure, the south may have thought that if kansas wasn't a slave state it would spell the end of slavery because it would set a precendent, but the republican party wasn't even out to abolish, save a few people. Emancipation was a politcal afterthought. Thats where we agree ed.

I'm going to throw my second response and my final thought into one big thing. His stratigies may have been unjustifiable, but thats not my point, my point is that the people I met seemed to take it so personally, it seemed altoghether too real to them, like it had happened yesterday. What surprised me was the intensity of ther reaction. I just wish people would get over the civil war, there is no need to go back and relive it, and dig up those old issues, the war has long since been over, sherman has been dead for a time now, the confederacy has been broken up for many years. Lets stop taking things personally, lets put away the flags. Thats my protest against
some people in the south.

There are obvioulsy not going to be abnormally high concentrations of ignorant people in one area. It just seems like one group of people have specifically decided to latch onto decades old topics, and this is one topic that bothers me.


Wow Ed, this sure is fun! This fits right in with my ENTP features. Ed, I have to say that because of your seniority and your psycological studies you make a great debate opponent, plenty of respect is being sent in your direction. Right or wrong, this is fun.

 

[RacerX]

posted by testuser
(from my memory)
* German auto makers Porsche, and BMW make cars that give off levels of nitrogen oxides and sulfur oxides that are impermissible in the US (contributing to ozone depletion and acid rain)
* I was shocked to see leaded gasoline being sold in Denmark in the mid-'90s
* US cars have more strict safety requirements (5 mph bumpers and the like). This is why a number of European automakers have to retrofit cars specifically for the US market (Volvo notably excepted).

Not than I'm bias in anyway, but... having owned four Porsches I can tell you that (1) they are forced to meet the same emissions standards as any other car before they can be sold in the US (and there are more Porsches sold in by Porsche North America than are sold in all of Europe) and (2) the engines are designed to run better at higher speeds (most Porsches get there best mileage at better than 125 kph). My 1974 911 had integrated 5 mph bumpers (that were included on all 911s through the end of the 80's), and both of my VW-Porsche 914s exceeded US safety standards of the time (the front and rear luggage compartments were designed to collapse in an accident, there was a fire wall between the front luggage compartment and the fuel tank, and the fuel tank and the passenger compartment, and another between the passenger compartment and the engine bay). and my 1970 911 Targa and both 914s had built-in roll bars that exceeded the SCCA racing standards (and I remember seeing Alan Johnson racing a stock 914-6 with only the front window and frame removed, back window removed, and the addition of a thicker antiroll bar, it was very impressive).

posted by alexachucarro
Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone - American kids didn't know what a Philosopher is, so they renamed it
Harry Potter and the Scorcerer's Stone.

I heard it was done for marketing reasons, and who doesn't know what a Philosopher is? I've been in public schools all my life, and and I don't see where you get this (even if you are just repeating it). My public university has had more Nobel and Fields Medal winners than England (or Russia, or most nations in the developed world). I find it amazing that you feel that your education system is so advanced when it has so little to show for it.

posted by alexachucarro
RacerX: that fact was from CBS News (which I think is Canadian or American) and USA Today, which I read now and again at Gatwick Airport. We get US channels in the UK. About 30. How many foreign channels are there in the USA?

I don't get 30 channels (I don't watch that much TV), we get 6, 2 of which are PBS, one of those carries BBC programing. As you seem to remember that it was in reported in USA Today, a date and page number reference would be nice.

 

[edX]

You know Phil, i just realized a similarity between our little discussion and the american/british one. Note that it always seems to be the brits who voice their dissatisfaction with yanks the most. they lost their position of power and suffered great economic loss when the colonists won the revolution. their "empire" has never recovered the way they envisioned it. They do good, but by all rights they still see the richness of america as something they 'should' have had.
same deal with southerners. The southern economy was once the strongest in the colonies. It had the promise to be the seat of power and prosperity for the nation. But as northern industrialism began to take shape, the south started losing their place. Tax laws were enacted that favored northern businesses and drained profits from the south to help finance the support of further industrialization. this was the 'economics' of which the civil war was fought. And the south, like england, has never fully recovered from this in economic terms. they have taken great strides in the last couple of decades but there is still a long way to go. so in fact, the people living there today are still dealing with the results of the civil war. to trivialize that is as wrong as them wanting to continue the war (which most don't - the confederate flag is more about regional unity and pride than anything else these days). So Sherman is still a big symbol of the reasons behind the uphill economic battle the south faces. You'd take it personal too.
I think you may be the first Ohioan i have talked with who was willing to admit that the issue of freedom for slaves came after the war started. Everyone i ever met there proudly clings to this notion that the north went to war for some great humanitarian reason. I swear they teach it this way in Ohio high schools. that will always be bunch of bs. the funny thing is that northerners (especially in Ohio) brag about loving blacks as a group but seem to dislike most of them as individuals whereas southerners yak about hating blacks but usually have great individual relationships with them. The real problem is that in the north their is a large economic difference between blacks and whites. in the south, everybody is poor. (i admit i am generalizing here and do not expect to be held accountable for real life exceptions to this)