Connecting two iMacs & a cable modem

As much as I wish I had a solution for you right now, I stronly recommend you postpone purchasing anything until you can affort the router. While it is possible to set up a configuration using a software router on a system with only 1 ethernet interface, I think it is a bad idea and ultimately will cause you some problems with your ISP.

See http://www.sustworks.com/site/ipr_guide/enet1_cablemodem.html for directions.

The problem is that a hub is really just a device that physically ties all of the input network cables together. This means that all of the computers on your local network are physically connected to the cable/dsl modem. If for some reason you hook up another computer without first configuring its network setup to use your software router, it WILL ping your ISP's DHCP server for a second IP address. As detailed in the above link you also cannot use DHCP to set up your local network, as the DHCP server on your local software router would end up serving IP addresses for your ISP's entire network; that will definitely result in a nasty call from your ISP.

If you do go with a hub, you also really need to puchase a second ethernet card for one of your two computers. I don't know what European prices are, but you could get both of these items in the US for well under $100
(especially if you stick to 10Base-T products (not 10/100).

However, taking a long term view of the situation, I again strongly recommend you save your money for the hardware router. You will be much happier and less stressed out in the end.
 
Those are iMacs remember....

On preventing the second computer from directly accessing my ISP, well there must be a way to prevent it from doing no?
Since all this is only needed during holidays, I would realy like to avoid buying a 280€/250$ router...
 
Yes, you need a second port. Else, you have no port to route the connection to. From this port, you can go into a hub and hook up any number of compuers, but you definitely need a second port.

I still suggest getting the router...
 
I had understood I could do it via the same port... getting a second one is out.
Well, so its either a router or I go on plugging/unplugging cables all the time like I do now... :(
 
just an off hand suggestion - put aside the money you could afford now. then set a value on plugging and unpluggging and add that amount each time you do it. this way you will get a good idea of how much value it really would be to you.
if you find yourself going in debt to the fund, it might be worth your investment. if not, maybe you don't really need it.

also, now that you know what you need, take your time and start looking around more seriously at prices. watch for them to drop or rebates to be added. i find everytime i rush out and make a purchase like this, i find the same item or an equivelent for much less within the month.

about the only drawback to hooking my two imacs to the internet on the router is the long cord that runs thru the house. but i intend to to run this outside once we decide on a permanent spot for the 2nd one. it will then become a feature of the house when we sell.
 
Originally posted by Kinniken
I had understood I could do it via the same port... getting a second one is out.
Well, so its either a router or I go on plugging/unplugging cables all the time like I do now... :(
Click to expand...

Well, as it is pointed out in the article, technically, you can do it using one port. Then again, as another poster said, it is not recommended. Normally, a proxy server has two ports. One where he connects to the extranet (from his point of view). The thing itself could be considered as the "door" between the extranet and the intranet behind it, thus the name "gateway" (allthough I wouldn't consider an iMac hooking up another on via NAT a true gateway ;) )
Firewall and mapping activites are done "within" this proxy before data is sent (or blocked) to the other site. How all this works with the mentioned one-port solution is out of my experience and I never actually saw a system like that.
 
Here's another alternative - you could do NAT routing on the 1st machine, and connect the second machine via USB or Firewire. There are USB <-> ethernet converters out there, and I think you might even be able to setup a network link by just connecting from one USB/Firewire port to the other (maybe a different type of cable is required?).

No need for a hub even, unless you have more than 2 machines...

Jim
 
Every time I think i have it solved, somebody dash it, and every time I've given up, someone else comes with a miracle solution... :p

A firewire-ethernet adaptator is an interesting idea, but to be honestly I do not see how it would work... isnt firewire master/slave based? How could I create a TCP/IP connection on that?

To Ed: I've evaluated how much I'm willing to spend allready, and its 100 €, 90 $. Looks like it will be too little for Europe for now...

Kinniken
 
Originally posted by Kinniken
A firewire-ethernet adaptator is an interesting idea, but to be honestly I do not see how it would work... isnt firewire master/slave based? How could I create a TCP/IP connection on that?
Click to expand...

Firewire is peer-to-peer. You don't even have to have a computer on a firewire network.

USB is master/slave, but you can get a Ethernet to USB adapter (that's how my cable ISP is hooking up PC users that don't have Ethernet).

It's understandable that you're confused at this point. There are a lot of
possible problems, but there are a lot of "miracle solutions." However, just remember that you're going to be the one maintaining this, so you need to understand how your setup works to make sure you stay on your ISP's good side.

I second Ed Spruiell's suggestion of seeing how much hassle it really is to switch the cable. On my cable modem, all I have to do is turn off the cable modem, move the cable, and turn the modem back on. There are a lot of non-optimal things I put up with because I'm saving up enough money to do it right (like watching widescreen DVD's on a 20" TV from 10 feet away).

The only "bad" part of this solution is that you can't use the internet from both systems at once.
 
The only "bad" part of this solution is that you can't use the internet from both systems at once.
Click to expand...
and i will second this. in my household this is essential.

there is no way i could properly express my anger wit the salesman who sold us dsl. helied about many things, some of which i was able to get pachell to live up to. but the biggest single lie he told me was that we would be able to share internet connections on dsl by going to radio shack and buying a special device about the size of a regulat phone line splitter that would cost less than $5. it was the deciding factor for us since this meant we could share dsl for less than the price of 2 modem hookups. at the time i had a dedicated line for mine. obviously when i went to radio shack i found that they wanted $230 for a router to do this. so we went a few weeks without one while i searched all over the web researching my options. from what i learned, a physical router was the only way to be sure i did not sacrifice the performance and speed that we were paying for in the first place. so we looked around and lo and behold, one of the online vendors sent out an email with a special on routers. i bought it. i have never stopped being pleased with it. theonly difficulties i had setting it up were quickly solved by tech support. it wasn't really difficult, just poorly worded install instructions in the mac section.

so again i suggest to you to see how quickly you go in debt if you place a value on plugging. is it worth 1lb, 2lbs or 5lbs? maybe only a pence? then you see if the money you have now plus what you have 'saved' is worth it to you or not. if you haven't spent the cost of getting a router in 3-6 mos, it's probably not for you.
 
90 $, 100 €
If I see a router at that price, I jump on it. Since that would require a 60% price drop, lets get back to the latest miracle solution... ethernet/firewire.
This one looks cool, since the only thing I would need to buy would be the adaptater itself, and it look to my newbs eyes more secure than the routing-on-one-port solution... (since my routing comp is physicaly between the cable modem and the other iMac).
Which leaves two problems... where can I find one? Just went and looked at the major french online retailing, they do not seem to have any. How much will it cost me?

Oh, and a sidenote what sort of cable would I be using? (crossed/non-crossed)

TIA (again),

Kinniken
 
kinniken -
if Shiva came to you and said "i will spare you from rebirth and grant you oneness with the universe for $200", would you reply "i told you i am only willing to pay $100 right now"?
or would you start saving your money to pay shiva what he wants?

that is all i am suggesting. if you don't get this then i give up. i tryed to guide you to the light.

May Ganesha help you to overcome your obstacles when he decides you are ready.:)

one other hint: anytime you use an adaptor you are operating something that is not native, that must somehow be emulated. sooner or later with system upgrades and changes, you are likely to encounter more problems. that's if you don't have them from the start.
 
I would be willing to pay almost anything for "oness of the Universe", but I'm willing to pay 100 € to share my Internet connection. What's the point? :confused:
And its not a question of savings either, I have 280 € which I could use to buy a router right now. I just find that's too much for what I am going to do with it.
For the firewire thing, I agree. And anyway I checked, looks like its about impossible to find in France.
Oh well, I'm getting realy good at getting OS9 to accept hot plugging and unplugging anyway...
 
as you guessed from my Avatar... I have his statue in my room (my av is a photo of it).
And my brother has 7 clay Ganesh in his.

***Kinniken goes ask them what they think of firewire-ethernet adaptator
 
I don't think you'd even need a Firewire <-> ethernet adapter - you could just connect the two machines with a cable, and establish a TCP/IP connection between them.

I guess you'd need to be familar with ifconfig and a few other UNIXy things to get it working. I'm sure I've seen a webpage with details. Will get back to you on that.

As for USB, here's one:

http://www.netshop.co.uk/products.fwx?codep=f5u104&clk=tx

I think you'd only need one, as you could connect to the ethernet port of the second machine...

Either way, you'd need to know how to set up the routing on the main machine...

Jim
 
well i will admit that jim's suggestion is looking more feasible. still one precaution to consider and that is other future expansions you might desire or need. i know i wish i had at least one more usb and firewire slots on my imac. if i had not had 2 open firewire ports i would have been in a tough spot recently when i added my second external hd. seems the bridges on them caused some osrt of recognition conflict when chained together. of course you caould always deal with anything like that whenyou get there if all you need to spend now is the cost of a cable.

as for the Shiva story, it was just meant to say that there are always things out of your control - like the price of something you want. you must decide if something is worth it or not. how much will you get out of something? in both cases you are just guessing what benefits you would really get. untill you can experience them first hand you will not know if they are worth it. maybe a little stretched analogy but i thought it might get your attention.

i would be spending a lot time asking Ganesha, the great remover of obstacles, to help provide your solution. Ganesha has come to my aid many a time.:)
 
So all I now need to do is to find an adptater... which in itself might be a bit difficult. I strongly suspect its not a very common bit of hardware.
Of course, it will also mean I will have two cables running inside the house (the iMac under OSX is the one away from the cable modem), though that does not matter much.
Do you have any idea what sort of cable I will need to use with the adaptater? (crossed/standard)
 
The reason I believe I need an adaptater is simply because my two comps are 20-25 meters apart, and I do not know if it is possible to find such long firewire cables. Never seen any.
 
I'm going to try that setup by moving the iMacs next to each other and connecting them with a small cable I have.
I will need help with setting the router up though....
 
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