Do I really need Office X ???? Apple Works okay???
- Thread starter Leonis
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RacerX
Old Rhapsody User
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
Any examples ?(I am sure netscape is a culprit too but I seem to see more M$ than netscape)
The ratio in more like 50:1, but yes both have done it. An early example would be MULTICOL and SPACER (which I believe became part of HTML 4) that were not in HTML 3.2 or use by IE in early versions. But IE was worse in the amount they added, but it was the same idea they had with Java. In that case they made a Java clone called Visual J++ that would ONLY run on Windows systems (which defeats the purpose of having Java which was a platform independent application environment). Which all shows that Microsoft has a long history of trying to take over the market in any way possible. In the end the only real solution is to strictly enforce an open standard on Microsoft products so that alternatives can be used or (as sithious said) say as Microsoft-free as possible.
AdmiralAK
Simply Daemonic
lol I only have three things M$ on my computer (Not counting my OS facination and VPC of course ;p)
1) Office 2001 ( Provided by employer, seldomly used)
2) MSN messenger (use it once in a blue moon...got it cause friends have it and they are never online... long live yahoo! -- now if they only made a complete mac client!)
3) Internet Exploder (used to beta test my web pages)
This is as M$ free as I can be for now... at least till open standards come in
Admiral
1) Office 2001 ( Provided by employer, seldomly used)
2) MSN messenger (use it once in a blue moon...got it cause friends have it and they are never online... long live yahoo! -- now if they only made a complete mac client!)
3) Internet Exploder (used to beta test my web pages)
This is as M$ free as I can be for now... at least till open standards come in
Admiral
karavite
Registered
ae has a good point, and if you are like me and can't type (or spell?) Casady and Green have Grammarian for OS X with Spell Checker OS X to follow - these are fantastic and low cost apps that serve as universal grammar/spell checkers that work with any and all open applications. With Tex Edit these apps can give most people everything they need in a word processor. In fact, I relied on Spell Checker when using Word in OS 9. I never realized how much MS's thesaurus sucked until I compared it with Spell Checkers. Grammarian is actually quite useful (has multiple settings for writing style and rules) and gives meaningful edits and suggestions - not just "excessive use of passive voice - consider rewriting..." - the most common Word grammar check message.
If only we could find a freeware version of an obnoxious animated assistant and an incredibly sloppy table/imaging handling capabilites... then Tex Edit could have the full capabilities of Word!
If only we could find a freeware version of an obnoxious animated assistant and an incredibly sloppy table/imaging handling capabilites... then Tex Edit could have the full capabilities of Word!
Now I decide to stick with Word 98.....run it under Classic. I found out there will be couple of apps that I use will NEVER be ported to OSX....so Classic....I still have to stick with you.....
BTW...I will get AppleWorks 6 from my dad anyway. I can type my resume and such with it. And only will use Word 98 when someone send me complex word documents....
BTW...I will get AppleWorks 6 from my dad anyway. I can type my resume and such with it. And only will use Word 98 when someone send me complex word documents....
Jim Paradise
Registered
I've found AppleWorks 6.2.1 to have *many* hideous bugs that prevent it from being useable for me in X. And that's too bad because I *need* AppleWorks to work and I like it! Come on, Apple!! *grrr*
(Oh, and if you want to know what the bugs are... there's a forum in here where I posted the most serious bugs... *sigh*)
And that's too bad because I *need* AppleWorks to work and I like it! Come on, Apple!! *grrr*(Oh, and if you want to know what the bugs are... there's a forum in here where I posted the most serious bugs... *sigh*)
neutrino23
Registered
Use whatever you like to make documents then save them as PDF files. If you get an ms document you can almost always find a translator. MacLink plus is cheaper than buying office. I refuse to send ms formatted documents unless the recipient absolutely requires it. I think it is wrong to use proprietary formats like that.
edX
mac shaman
I agree with the idea of buying maclinkplus before buying office. The way apple has cut back on translators over the years is saddening. Used to be macwrite pro came with a maclink setup that translated everything but the most recent versions of other wp's. Now appleworks doesn't even translate macwrite pro (of which I have hundreds of docs created in). I also agree with the idea of avoiding the most recent 6.2.1 version of appleworks. Use any version before that. The bugs are too much. Still praying I will wake up and find the update to fix them available.
But the idea of buying a M$ product to make things "nicer" or to "fit" with the rest of the "real" world is appalling to me!! Going along with the nazi's made things easier. Not speaking up against apartheid was a way to fit in. Buying M$ is just plain wrong. So long as we continue to support them they will continue to dictate to us what we can and cannot have. When people start demanding something better by casting their economic vote ($$$) then they will listen to us, rather than us to them. Are we mac users because we want to fit in? I would love to work in a place where that was true. Spend your money on other things than Bill Gates summer home.
But the idea of buying a M$ product to make things "nicer" or to "fit" with the rest of the "real" world is appalling to me!! Going along with the nazi's made things easier. Not speaking up against apartheid was a way to fit in. Buying M$ is just plain wrong. So long as we continue to support them they will continue to dictate to us what we can and cannot have. When people start demanding something better by casting their economic vote ($$$) then they will listen to us, rather than us to them. Are we mac users because we want to fit in? I would love to work in a place where that was true. Spend your money on other things than Bill Gates summer home.
First and foremost, I would rather use a mac. To do this as seamlessly as possible in an all PC environment, I depend on Office. I have found it not worth the hassle to use 2 0r 3 apps to read, translate or convert documents from text, rtf, .doc, etc. just so I can "avoid" Microsoft. And don't get me started on pdf. I think it stinks. The interface is not friendly at all. Sure it is cross platform but come on! JMHO.
If I didn't work so much with the PC world would I use Office? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely wouldn't use Powerpoint. (I like iMovie and other slide show apps). Wouldn't use Excel. I would still use Entourage...in my opinion a very solid email app. And if it was up to me, I would use text or rtf format only. I love Text Edit and think Okito Composer has a lot of promise.
If I didn't work so much with the PC world would I use Office? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely wouldn't use Powerpoint. (I like iMovie and other slide show apps). Wouldn't use Excel. I would still use Entourage...in my opinion a very solid email app. And if it was up to me, I would use text or rtf format only. I love Text Edit and think Okito Composer has a lot of promise.
brachiator
Registered
I really like Office:mac, mostly using Word and Entourage. Good and solid.
But, that said I agree absolutely that proprietary formats suck and that MS and the rest of them should be forced to provide free readers. That would take care of the occasional recipient or other platform reader who, when she gets a .doc file, REALLY needs to read it. Adobe went the right way on this -- and look how many government site licenses they must have sold... .pdf is the defacto gov't standard (at least for the feds). I try to send out .pdfs as much as I can, so long as I don't need work back from the recipient. And any settlement to the MS suit that doesn't require free readers for all platforms is a joke (for other reasons too...)
Any university or prof who demands .docs should be ashamed, fired, and strung up (or at least have to buy laptops and Office and punitive damages to all students!) ;-)
Although, here in my dept. at Berkeley we are just starting a laptop final exam pilot program -- yes a *pilot* program, for god's sake, at Berkeley. Why this school is so backwards in IS and advanced in research is an administrative shame. Anyway, the pilot software runs only in windows -- and I think that it somehow won't run in an emulated environment... so my X and Linux pals are out of luck (although if we could get around it, we could run in emulated Windows and have access to all our notes! not that we would, but it would be great to have the capability..)
end digression, I guess. ;-)
But, that said I agree absolutely that proprietary formats suck and that MS and the rest of them should be forced to provide free readers. That would take care of the occasional recipient or other platform reader who, when she gets a .doc file, REALLY needs to read it. Adobe went the right way on this -- and look how many government site licenses they must have sold... .pdf is the defacto gov't standard (at least for the feds). I try to send out .pdfs as much as I can, so long as I don't need work back from the recipient. And any settlement to the MS suit that doesn't require free readers for all platforms is a joke (for other reasons too...)
Any university or prof who demands .docs should be ashamed, fired, and strung up (or at least have to buy laptops and Office and punitive damages to all students!) ;-)
Although, here in my dept. at Berkeley we are just starting a laptop final exam pilot program -- yes a *pilot* program, for god's sake, at Berkeley. Why this school is so backwards in IS and advanced in research is an administrative shame. Anyway, the pilot software runs only in windows -- and I think that it somehow won't run in an emulated environment... so my X and Linux pals are out of luck (although if we could get around it, we could run in emulated Windows and have access to all our notes! not that we would, but it would be great to have the capability..)
end digression, I guess. ;-)
genghiscohen
Membrum virile
I had a very amusing experience just the other day. A friend sent me a M$ .doc file. Word for OS X couldn't open it. Tried and tried, just got a mysterious "file cannot be opened" message. Show Info said that it was in fact a M$ Word file.
So I tried AW 6.2.1, and it opened right up!
Still, I do plan to obtain Office v.X. I have gotten a lot of use out of Office: mac 2001, and the X version is a definite improvement.
Not worth $500, but it does offer a good many interesting features. My personal fav is the non-contiguous selection (highlighting) capability. Very handy for editing documents.
This is of course purely a personal decision. The vast majority of the work (as opposed to play) that I do on my iMac is word processing. It's too bad that WordPerfect development has ended, and I'm looking forward to OpenOffice for OS X, but Office v.X is here now.
But if you just want to be able to read the occasional .doc, stick with AW and/or MacLinkPlus.
So I tried AW 6.2.1, and it opened right up!
Still, I do plan to obtain Office v.X. I have gotten a lot of use out of Office: mac 2001, and the X version is a definite improvement.
Not worth $500, but it does offer a good many interesting features. My personal fav is the non-contiguous selection (highlighting) capability. Very handy for editing documents.
This is of course purely a personal decision. The vast majority of the work (as opposed to play) that I do on my iMac is word processing. It's too bad that WordPerfect development has ended, and I'm looking forward to OpenOffice for OS X, but Office v.X is here now.
But if you just want to be able to read the occasional .doc, stick with AW and/or MacLinkPlus.
solrac
Mac Ninja
Ok dude... first of all, the ONLY real reason to get Office is to be compatible with the 100 billion people that will send you an excel file or a word document.
Microsoft doesn't make money by selling superior or super-advanced products. They make money by making you conform to everyone else because they already sold their shit to everyone else. You almost have to get Office v.X. Unless you tell every person who emails you excel, word, or powerpoint to convert the file to something else, if they even know how.
Second.... it seems like you're using your last drops of cash buying software. What's wrong with you???? Download that shit for free!! Ever heard of hotline? Ever heard of warez, and piracy?
Shit, if you are gonna be broke after buying software, don't buy it. Download it. If it wasn't for piracy, I wouldn't be able to eat. Actually I would probably just work in a retail or fast food store. I would have never had the chance to learn web design.
If you are extremely morally and ethically inclined to buy all your software, then at least download Office v.X for free. Buy everything else. But you are only using Office v.X to convert files. You are not using it for productivity. Microsoft has a ONE BILLION dollar ad campaign for Windows XP, and they lose $80 on every XBOX that they sell, just to make it competitively priced and make money on games later. Trust me, they can afford your free download of office v.X.
Why don't you download all your software for free, and when you turn a PROFIT using the software, then just go buy it. I don't mean to start a whole piracy argument here, but you seem like you're broke because of all your software purchases and that makes me feel bad for you.
ok laterz,
-solrac-
p.s. I've been doing web design for 2 years and I have never made enough money to buy the software I use. Only enough money for food, rent, hardware, and some entertainment. Not even enough money for taxes!!! Shit, I'm a software pirate AND I don't pay taxes. But I can't afford to! I didn't even have a car for a year!!!
karavite
Registered
Just a thought. Most univeristy and colleges have special pricing on software. I bought 3 versions of Office for PC and Mac and never paid more than $35 each, plus huge discounts on anything you can imagine - Director, DreamWeaver, Photoshop...
Maybe registering for a single class (which probably costs less than Office at retail!) will allow some people to take advantage of low software prices if their school offers them - or make friends with a student who can buy them for you though this is expressly forbidden by these agreements, but come on - you have to live with a little danger!
Maybe registering for a single class (which probably costs less than Office at retail!) will allow some people to take advantage of low software prices if their school offers them - or make friends with a student who can buy them for you though this is expressly forbidden by these agreements, but come on - you have to live with a little danger!
Yeap...many of apps I have were purchase when I was a full time or part time student. Big saving
Even now I am not a student but I have so many cousins I can 'use' to help me to grab apps I want.
However, the two universities in Vancouver doesn't have that kind of huge discount on M$ products. Office X costs $300 CDN. It's a lot cheaper than the "regular" version but still way too expensive compare to other who can get it for $5 or $10....
I wish I could know the people who attend the University that has that $10 Academic Office X deal
Even now I am not a student but I have so many cousins I can 'use' to help me to grab apps I want.
However, the two universities in Vancouver doesn't have that kind of huge discount on M$ products. Office X costs $300 CDN. It's a lot cheaper than the "regular" version but still way too expensive compare to other who can get it for $5 or $10....
I wish I could know the people who attend the University that has that $10 Academic Office X deal
edX
mac shaman
I don't know if they will deal with canadian students or not but
http://creationengine.com/
offers educational software for those whose universities don't carry them. I have bought quite a few of my programs from them. they are usually a little behind in current releases so be sure you know what version you want when ordering from them. I checked and they don't seem to have officeX yet. It will probably take a few weeks at least. (istill don't condone its use but if anybody really wants it...) they used to be close to my school so i just went in and bought at their office but I have also emailed them a jpeg scan of my student id and had them mail me stuff i'm in no hurry for. I hope to spend a little more money with them before I graduate as a sort of graduation present to myself. They carry a great selection of graphics/multimedia programs. Keep in mind that educational prices are actually set by the software publiher. Some companies just don't offer it. some, like apple, insist you deal directly with them for your discount. Others knock the price way down (like adobe) and others just make it about the price of an upgrade or slightly higher. there are few that don't make it much different from retail and you might actually find them cheaper at a discount web site with free shipping and/or no tax. It's a good place to check out when you know what you want if you are a student or know one who would purchase for you.
http://creationengine.com/
offers educational software for those whose universities don't carry them. I have bought quite a few of my programs from them. they are usually a little behind in current releases so be sure you know what version you want when ordering from them. I checked and they don't seem to have officeX yet. It will probably take a few weeks at least. (istill don't condone its use but if anybody really wants it...) they used to be close to my school so i just went in and bought at their office but I have also emailed them a jpeg scan of my student id and had them mail me stuff i'm in no hurry for. I hope to spend a little more money with them before I graduate as a sort of graduation present to myself. They carry a great selection of graphics/multimedia programs. Keep in mind that educational prices are actually set by the software publiher. Some companies just don't offer it. some, like apple, insist you deal directly with them for your discount. Others knock the price way down (like adobe) and others just make it about the price of an upgrade or slightly higher. there are few that don't make it much different from retail and you might actually find them cheaper at a discount web site with free shipping and/or no tax. It's a good place to check out when you know what you want if you are a student or know one who would purchase for you.