Do you like the dock?
- Thread starter Biff
- Start date
kenny
Registered
I had to say neutral. I like it, but I don't think it's wonderful. I'd just as soon have the old apple menu and task switcher from pre-X instead. But it is nice to have live icons on the dock. I run a CPU monitor (Xload) in the dock that's quite nice, and ASM helps bridge the gap.
If there'd been a selection for "I like it, but it could be better", I'd have chosen that...
If there'd been a selection for "I like it, but it could be better", I'd have chosen that...
simX
Unofficial Mac Genius
Well, besides the obvious one, here's how to get the old functionality back:
1. Make a folder.
2. Drop all the Apple Menu Items you want into it.
3. Make the custom icon of the folder a multi-colored Apple logo.
4. Drag it onto the right side of the Dock.
This is the EXACT functionality of the Apple menu (without the memory usage thing) in the Dock, with a larger, more beautiful icon. You can't complain about the lack of Apple menu, because here it is.
1. Make a folder.
2. Drop all the Apple Menu Items you want into it.
3. Make the custom icon of the folder a multi-colored Apple logo.
4. Drag it onto the right side of the Dock.
This is the EXACT functionality of the Apple menu (without the memory usage thing) in the Dock, with a larger, more beautiful icon. You can't complain about the lack of Apple menu, because here it is.
I like the dock but I do not... I think the OS 9 app switcher was great cause it was hidden up in the menu bar... a space that is already taken... the dock can hog some valuable space. when I am in photoshop, I need every last pixel I can get. I know you can make the dock "hide", but it pops up when you do not want it to.
unlearnthetruth
Recycle Me!
I get hierarchical menus for folders...
unless i misunderstood ya
forgive the HUGE register thingie... i forgot about that, lol... but you get the idea
changomarcelo
Friend of the elves
One of the things I missed from Windows when I bought my first Mac with OS 9, was the task bar, where I can switch applications quickly. In OS 9 I had to pull down a mini-menu first, choose the application, and then choose the window from the window pull down menu... A lot of work that I was used to do with only one click in windows.,
The dock simplified it a lot. Just right clic on an icon (or CONTROL+Clic for those who have a one button mouse) and choose the window you want to work.
HOwever, I think it just could be better. For example, when you press COMMAND+TAB, the sequence goes throug all programs, but it would be better if the secuence started in the last active programa, so you could do COMMAND+TAB only once to switch between two applications you are working on it (yes, like Windows).
Just one last thing: We shoul make a poll to know where do we use the dock most (right, left or bottom).
The dock simplified it a lot. Just right clic on an icon (or CONTROL+Clic for those who have a one button mouse) and choose the window you want to work.
HOwever, I think it just could be better. For example, when you press COMMAND+TAB, the sequence goes throug all programs, but it would be better if the secuence started in the last active programa, so you could do COMMAND+TAB only once to switch between two applications you are working on it (yes, like Windows).
Just one last thing: We shoul make a poll to know where do we use the dock most (right, left or bottom).
kenny
Registered
Yes, I know about that, and I do it, but I have to disagree slightly that it's exactly the same as the old Apple menu. It's very very close, but there are 2 problems with it:
1. It's slower - both to use and to manage. Without spring-loaded folders, I have to open it, and have the window to the original item open to drag over an alias. Before, I could just spring down the hierarchy to put the alias where I wanted. Also, there's a delay in displaying the contents of it, even if all the items are aliases. If the aliases are only the folders (like Applications), the delay is even worse. I'd be willing to trade off some memory useage for the responsiveness of the old way.
2. It's in the wrong place. There was a reason that the Apple menu was were it was in the first place. The Human Interface Guidelines which, in a cruel twist of irony, Apple originally wrote but now apparently ignores, had something to say about the placement of elements on the screen (or a dialog). It's so simple, but it makes so much sense.
Put simply, the HIG said that when looking at the screen, the most important elements should start at the upper left, and proceed in importance diaganally to the lower right. So, the elements of "What programs can I run" and "what programs are running" and even "what time is it", having been arranged to be at the top of the screen, were in the right places. Strictly speaking, "what programs can I run" had a very slightly more important meaning than "what programs are running", but it's negligable. Proceeding down and to the right, the least important element was "what's in the trash". That is also correct, since it is, after all, the trash.
On a stock X system, all three of these are either in the wrong places or ignored altogether. The trash is actually in the wrong place, being more toward the center-bottom. With the right-side preference for the placement of icons on the desktop, a new file on the desktop can, depending on its placement have a lower importance than the trash. This is easily corrected by pinning the dock end while having the dock either on the bottom or right. ASM (see version tracker) puts the application switcher back at the top right, where it belongs, with a minimum of fanfare or hassle. But the Apple menu is still a problem, essentially MIA. I know about FruitMenu, but the last time I used it, it was so buggy as to be useless (the menu hierarchies kept switching, rendering any muscle memory building pointless). Perhaps I should check to see if there's an update that fixes some of that.
It's interesting to note that Windows' placement of these elements are, again, by default, completely backward. I've found that putting the taskbar at the top and moving the Recycle bin to the lower right helps a great deal with Windows. It's not perfect, but it feels a lot better. I noticed a coworker (who has, interestingly, never used Macintosh) of mine had put the taskbar on top, and I asked him why he'd done that. He couldn't explain it except to say that it seemed to work better for him that way. How many other millions of Windows users are subconciously struggling with the bad placement of UI elements?
All that said, I am getting used to the Dock, and as I said before, the ability to have live icons (CPU monitor, network monitor, boucing icons, etc.) is a very good thing. I just wish that the fundamentals hadn't been lost to gain that.
I know that an awful lot of folks will feel that I'm picking nits here, and that may be true, but before they flame me for all this, I hope they answer one very basic question for me. Beyond the HIG and notions of UI design, why, in a system thats been so customisable in the past, shouldn't I expect to be able to get the system to work the way I want it to?
This question also extends to theming the OS, but that's a different thread.
unlearnthetruth
Recycle Me!
sorry about that - it was referring to a snapz shot of hierarchical menu's in action out of my dock, but apparently the photo was too big or something. oh well!
Biff
Thinking Different
I like it myself however it needs more work. I think that one dock for running applications and their minimized windows and another dock for storage of recently used applications/folders would be a good idea. This would be the same idea behind the NeXT style dock. With all that more user control would probably be a good idea. ie more control over the behaviour and position of the dock(s).
edX
mac shaman
If this question had been asked a week earlier i probably would have answered neutral. I still wish they would bring back the launcher. But having recently bought Dockswitcher for $3, i now have all the docks i need. there is even a free one that gives you just 2 docs. In the end this works just like the launcher plus i can keep them hidden. switching is fast and easy. and while it would be nice to see apple include multible docks and more options for how they are used, $3 has solved the issue for now. I regularly spend that much on items that don't last thru the day.
just visit www.macupdate.com and/or www.versiontracker.com and search for 'dock'. Setting them up for the first time is a bit of work but after that they work great.
just visit www.macupdate.com and/or www.versiontracker.com and search for 'dock'. Setting them up for the first time is a bit of work but after that they work great.
adambyte
Registered
Mine's currently at the bottom, simply because when icons are bouncing, it makes sense for the gravitational pull of the earth to make them bounce up and down.
Hey, Kenny, I agree whole-heartedly with your human interface ideals. Using System 7.1 always felt like a very clean, well organized experience... (except when my dad loaded the Apple menu with dozens of items, but that's another story...)
So, based on the Apple human interface guidelines, what would be the ideal position and pinning for the dock?
Hey, Kenny, I agree whole-heartedly with your human interface ideals. Using System 7.1 always felt like a very clean, well organized experience... (except when my dad loaded the Apple menu with dozens of items, but that's another story...)
So, based on the Apple human interface guidelines, what would be the ideal position and pinning for the dock?
kenny
Registered
Heh... I keep my dock at the bottom and end-pinned (so that the trash is always in the lower-right). I never thought about the gravity thing, but it makes perfect sense to me...
I had occasion to use a 7.1 machine just yesterday, which is probably what fueled part of my rather lengthy post earlier. It's just so much less cluttered than what we've gotten used to with later versions of the OS.
There probably isn't an 'ideal' location or pinning for the dock, given the shortcomings that it imposes. Others have mentioned, here and in other threads, certain stupid dock behaviours (icons jump out of its way even if it's hidden, on the right for instance, but windows do not, so it ends up obscuring buttons or the resize widget), making its placement very tricky to not interfere with anything. And, of course, given its function, anywhere other than the top (which you can't really do) violates, to some degree, the HIG as discussed earlier.
So, I guess the ideal location is wherever it works best for you. How's that for a safe answer?
simX
Unofficial Mac Genius
Kenny: I agree with some of your qualms about the Human Interface Guidelines, but they have only been stretched, not broken. I have a bunch of things in my Dock so the trash can is always of "least importance". Also, you can make your Dock extraordinarily small and use magnification if you really need that extra real estate; you can even keep magnification off and you can still know what you're clicking on by the titles.
As for the Dock being at the bottom, it sort of takes place of the launcher as well as the application switcher. In the launcher's case, it makes sense for it to be at the bottom because it isn't terribly important to have a bunch of aliases to your applications on the screen. In the respect of application switching, I agree it's a little more tedious, but it works. That's why I do like to have ASM installed.
Also FruitMenu works perfectly with 1.5.1 (or is it 1.5.2?). I have my "Apple Menu Items" back, and you can even assign hot keys to the aliases, so right now I can press Command-Option-Shift-D to restart my Dock, because it just simply opens DockRestarter. Command-Control-I switches/opens iTunes, Command-Control-M does the same for Mail, and Command-Control-O does the same for OmniWeb. VERY useful.
I have come to love the Dock... especially because of the ability to have changing icons as well as Docklings (DOCKLINGS ROCK!), but I agree it could use some work. A nice feature would be a tabbed Dock, or a "button" that would reveal a second Dock coming out from behind the first or something. It would also be nice to have two Docks on the screen at once. Also, it would be nice to have our own separators --- I would love to be able to have one section for open applications, one for my aliases (which included open applications), one for documents, one for Docklings, one for documents and folders, one for minimized windows, and the last for the Trash.
Oh, by the way... the reason you can't put the Trash on the desktop is because of the confusion that people got in the Classic Mac OS interface: you'd drag a disk or a CD or a server to the Trash. Now when you do that, because the Dock can have changing icons, the trash changes to an eject icon when you are dragging CDs or servers, and its title changes to "Eject" or "Disconnect". I like it that way.
Oh, another thing. You CAN put the Dock under the menu bar. Use TinkerTool, and you can put it at the top.
One feature that I think would be really cool is if there was a resize button or close/minimize/maximize/toolbar widgets obscured by the Dock, that when you move your mouse over them, the Dock would "move out of the way" to allow you to click on it -- it would sort of spread itself so that your action would click on the widget, not the Dock. But it might be weird if you wanted to access something right above a widget -- I dunno. I suppose I should stop typing here.
As for the Dock being at the bottom, it sort of takes place of the launcher as well as the application switcher. In the launcher's case, it makes sense for it to be at the bottom because it isn't terribly important to have a bunch of aliases to your applications on the screen. In the respect of application switching, I agree it's a little more tedious, but it works. That's why I do like to have ASM installed.
Also FruitMenu works perfectly with 1.5.1 (or is it 1.5.2?). I have my "Apple Menu Items" back, and you can even assign hot keys to the aliases, so right now I can press Command-Option-Shift-D to restart my Dock, because it just simply opens DockRestarter. Command-Control-I switches/opens iTunes, Command-Control-M does the same for Mail, and Command-Control-O does the same for OmniWeb. VERY useful.
I have come to love the Dock... especially because of the ability to have changing icons as well as Docklings (DOCKLINGS ROCK!), but I agree it could use some work. A nice feature would be a tabbed Dock, or a "button" that would reveal a second Dock coming out from behind the first or something. It would also be nice to have two Docks on the screen at once. Also, it would be nice to have our own separators --- I would love to be able to have one section for open applications, one for my aliases (which included open applications), one for documents, one for Docklings, one for documents and folders, one for minimized windows, and the last for the Trash.
Oh, by the way... the reason you can't put the Trash on the desktop is because of the confusion that people got in the Classic Mac OS interface: you'd drag a disk or a CD or a server to the Trash. Now when you do that, because the Dock can have changing icons, the trash changes to an eject icon when you are dragging CDs or servers, and its title changes to "Eject" or "Disconnect". I like it that way.
Oh, another thing. You CAN put the Dock under the menu bar. Use TinkerTool, and you can put it at the top.
One feature that I think would be really cool is if there was a resize button or close/minimize/maximize/toolbar widgets obscured by the Dock, that when you move your mouse over them, the Dock would "move out of the way" to allow you to click on it -- it would sort of spread itself so that your action would click on the widget, not the Dock. But it might be weird if you wanted to access something right above a widget -- I dunno. I suppose I should stop typing here.
hazmat
Rusher of Din
Not sure about the guidelines, but I keep it on the right edge of the screen. What excites me (and also pisses me off at times) is that OS X is NeXT. I always found NeXT very cool, and now I get to use it on a daily basis.
I think it's interesting that people complain that things were taking OUT with OS X, but it's the opposite. The OS 9 like things were put IN.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems how it is.
I like it, but i think it has to be more 'interactive'. It's nice to play a QT movie in it, but useless. Window users can see the speed and how for their DL is (in %), and wich MP3 they are playing. They can close windows from the dock, not only the whole app.
But besides this i like it, quick qay to lauch often-used-apps.
But besides this i like it, quick qay to lauch often-used-apps.
GadgetLover
Senior Member & Tech Guru
What are you talking about!? Yes you do!
Give it a try ...
[Whining more than the Russian figure skaters]
(Just kidding)
I have two major power-user problems with the dock. When I'm working, I'm fast enough that I'm generally several steps ahead of the computer at all times. But since the location of items in the dock changes, I can't just let muscle-memory take me to an item and then click - I have to actually look at the icons and find the one I'm looking for. Slow me down...
The only way to fix this that I've found is to pin the dock at one end and only run programs that I always keep in the dock. Which brings me to problem two...
The dock needs to be hierarchial. I keep all of my progams in DragThing, arranged with tabs. Business apps in one tab, graphics stuff in another, utilities in a third, and so on. If I put 'em all in the dock, I'd have 30-40 apps sitting there and it would be hard to see the one I wanted. So, the dock needs to be hierarchial.
So my "solution" is to use DragThing's launcher and application switcher for everything and Keyboard Maestro to switch apps using key commands. And I just don't minimize windows - I option-click to hide apps.
But even so, the dock pisses me off when I accidentally show it by mousing to the bottom of the screen.
Moral of the story is that the dock sucks ass for people who move quickly and use lots of programs.
The only way to fix this that I've found is to pin the dock at one end and only run programs that I always keep in the dock. Which brings me to problem two...
The dock needs to be hierarchial. I keep all of my progams in DragThing, arranged with tabs. Business apps in one tab, graphics stuff in another, utilities in a third, and so on. If I put 'em all in the dock, I'd have 30-40 apps sitting there and it would be hard to see the one I wanted. So, the dock needs to be hierarchial.
So my "solution" is to use DragThing's launcher and application switcher for everything and Keyboard Maestro to switch apps using key commands. And I just don't minimize windows - I option-click to hide apps.
But even so, the dock pisses me off when I accidentally show it by mousing to the bottom of the screen.
Moral of the story is that the dock sucks ass for people who move quickly and use lots of programs.