do you sleep?
- Thread starter habilis
- Start date
chemistry_geek
Registered
Almost forgot to mention some other things that are essential for good sleep.
If you sleep at night, i.e. go to bed around 9:00PM or 11:00PM, stop ingesting stimulants like CAFFEINE around 2:00PM to 3:00PM. In fact, don't eat a large meal right before bed. It takes approximately 5 to 6 hours for the body to metabolize it and remove it from your system. So don't be drinking coffee, Mountain Dew, Jolt, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc... AFTER 3:00PM. Also, don't drink alcoholic beverages (or NyQuil). These will disrupt your sleep structure, you won't get as much delta sleep, but you'll get more stage 2 sleep that isn't optimal.
If you live in the city near a busy road and hear traffic and see blinking lights from obnoxious advertising signs, get ear plugs and room darkening shades. Ear plugs basically come in two varieties: soft waxy substance (good, in my opinion) and soft spongy kind (OK, but they will eventually irritate the lining of your ear canal). Noise will affect your sleep considerably. Some people say "they get used to it". Believe me, you don't get used to it. Noise causes K-complexes, which lead to lighter stages of sleep or even wakefullness (groggy none the less) and you may not even remember waking from the noise, but it will fragment your sleep. The brain is also stimulated by light. Inside your head, the optic nerves from each eye criss-cross (optic chiasm). Just above this area is a section of the brain that "senses" the electrical stimulation and says "oh, I sense light, it's time to be awake" even though you may be trying to go to sleep. Hence, make your sleeping environment as quiet and dark as possible. Also, when you sleep at night, try to make the room cooler by 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit. Your body normally decreases temperature at night with the lowest temperatures occurring between 4:00AM and 5:30AM. If you do all these things, you will SLEEP LIKE A ROCK and feel wonderful in the morning, recharged, full of energy, assuming there are no other underlying problems (ie overweight with obstructive sleep apnea or central nervous system damage that may contribute to central sleep apnea (remember the "Drugs" thread and my spat about brain damage?)).
I'll get around to contacting the people privately who asked me to explain more, in the next day or two. I'm a really busy guy these days.
If you sleep at night, i.e. go to bed around 9:00PM or 11:00PM, stop ingesting stimulants like CAFFEINE around 2:00PM to 3:00PM. In fact, don't eat a large meal right before bed. It takes approximately 5 to 6 hours for the body to metabolize it and remove it from your system. So don't be drinking coffee, Mountain Dew, Jolt, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc... AFTER 3:00PM. Also, don't drink alcoholic beverages (or NyQuil). These will disrupt your sleep structure, you won't get as much delta sleep, but you'll get more stage 2 sleep that isn't optimal.
If you live in the city near a busy road and hear traffic and see blinking lights from obnoxious advertising signs, get ear plugs and room darkening shades. Ear plugs basically come in two varieties: soft waxy substance (good, in my opinion) and soft spongy kind (OK, but they will eventually irritate the lining of your ear canal). Noise will affect your sleep considerably. Some people say "they get used to it". Believe me, you don't get used to it. Noise causes K-complexes, which lead to lighter stages of sleep or even wakefullness (groggy none the less) and you may not even remember waking from the noise, but it will fragment your sleep. The brain is also stimulated by light. Inside your head, the optic nerves from each eye criss-cross (optic chiasm). Just above this area is a section of the brain that "senses" the electrical stimulation and says "oh, I sense light, it's time to be awake" even though you may be trying to go to sleep. Hence, make your sleeping environment as quiet and dark as possible. Also, when you sleep at night, try to make the room cooler by 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit. Your body normally decreases temperature at night with the lowest temperatures occurring between 4:00AM and 5:30AM. If you do all these things, you will SLEEP LIKE A ROCK and feel wonderful in the morning, recharged, full of energy, assuming there are no other underlying problems (ie overweight with obstructive sleep apnea or central nervous system damage that may contribute to central sleep apnea (remember the "Drugs" thread and my spat about brain damage?)).
I'll get around to contacting the people privately who asked me to explain more, in the next day or two. I'm a really busy guy these days.
chemistry_geek
Registered
This is where I used to work in Sleep Disorders (Neurodiagnostic Services, an off-shoot of the Neurology Department):
http://www.mco.edu/
I don't know if sleep studies are still conducted there, the healthcare industry is very cyclical; it gets built-up and taken down, capital equipment is bought, used, and sold to the highest bidder (3rd world countries). It's very much a "big business".
http://www.mco.edu/
I don't know if sleep studies are still conducted there, the healthcare industry is very cyclical; it gets built-up and taken down, capital equipment is bought, used, and sold to the highest bidder (3rd world countries). It's very much a "big business".
habilis
Ministry of Re-Education
chem:
I have a little tabletop fan in my 3 year old daughters bedroom that runs all night to diffuse the louder sounds of the TV or music and active parts of the house. Is that a bad idea?
I also have the same fan going in my bedroom because I like the soft white sound it makes and helps me fall asleep faster.
What about falling asleep to music as I sometimes do?
I have a little tabletop fan in my 3 year old daughters bedroom that runs all night to diffuse the louder sounds of the TV or music and active parts of the house. Is that a bad idea?
I also have the same fan going in my bedroom because I like the soft white sound it makes and helps me fall asleep faster.
What about falling asleep to music as I sometimes do?
chemistry_geek
Registered
Yeah, I think it's a bad idea to run a fan in your 3 year old daughter's bedroom all night long to diffuse the sounds in the active parts of the house. Little children are a lot different from adults with regard to sleep structure. They get massive amounts of delta sleep (mostly stage 4); they're less likely to wake from delta sleep than an adult. Their bodies are growing, everything is young and new. What I would do if I had a little child is try to go to bed near the same time that s/he does, or get ear phones to listen to music. Use the fan only if you must, it can help, but any noise will affect your sleep. If you can, shut the bedroom door, that way sound and light (from the TV or hallway) is minimized. Get one of those one-way walkie-talkies (baby/child monitoring device) to hear if your daughter wakes and needs you.
Another thing to consider too, and I don't know the effect of this either, but your brain can get fatigued from too much sound, or over loaded. The neurons get fatigued from processing the same frequency of sound. This can lead to stress (mild). I do know that that also happens in the visual cortex. Stare at something for 5 minutes then look away, you will see a ghost image of the object you were looking at. This is caused by the neurons in the visual cortex repeatedly processing the same "signal" and being fatigued. Eventually, your brain (all the different systems) get fatigued and you need to sleep.
Falling asleep to music can be relaxing and comforting (a psychological factor), but once you're asleep, the brain still processes sounds, sensations, and light stimulation (a neurological factor) that can lead to lighter stages of sleep, sometimes those stimuli get incorporated into dreams. Try for a week turning down the music to where it's barely perceptable but still enjoyable and see how you do, then try falling asleep without it and see how you do. I don't know how you'd respond, but you can be the judge of that. My mother falls asleep with the TV or radio blaring in her room. If if gets turned-off, she wakes up. Strange, I know.
Regarding children, the first three years of their lives, ie, intellectual development, is influenced greatly by intellectual stimulation, family dynamics, and social interaction. This weighs very heavily on future mental development and influences a great deal the rest of their lives. These first three years are the formative years, what happens then influences what happens later. Just keep that in mind.
While working those night shifts, I not only did my assigned duties, but I also read a great deal about neuropsychology and journal articles about studies conducted regarding "modern life style" and its effects on individuals (populations). There is a right way to live and a wrong way to live, and getting the proper sleep will help you live a better life.
habilis
Ministry of Re-Education
chem: thanks a lot for that info. It was funny though, last night when we put Rachel(my daughter) to bed she totally noticed that the fan was off and she told me I had to turn it on, lol, so I ended up having to tell her a simplified version the story of why we should turn it off. She wasn't at all thrilled about the idea so I had to bribe her with a visit to the petstore(kid heaven). Anyway, it worked, and suprisingly she slept without waking. I thought for sure she was addicted to the white noise.
JohnnyV
Registered
I had a bad night sleep last night. Slept for about two hours and was awakened by thunder. It was very hot and humid in my room and I couldn't get back to sleep. I laid there for about 30 minutes then went to the basement where it is nice and cool. Finally fell asleep again about 7 am and woke up about 10:30.
Not that you care.....
Not that you care.....
binaryDigit
Registered
I used to get about 4-6 hours, but then my son was born (also have a daughter) and I had even less time to get stuff done. For a long time (about 2 years) it was 2-4 hours, but I find that I have a harder time staying awake now, so I'm settling back to 4-5 hours.
If I get more than 5-6 hours of sleep, I ALWAYS feel like crap the next day. I feel more sleepy than if I got 4 hours. I also can't take naps, I always feel terrible after waking from a nap, which really sucks if you're really tired. Luckily I almost never have time to actually take a nap, so it's not usually an issue.
Funny thing is that I can only remember once in my life that I awoke from sleeping and thought "MAN, I FEEL GREAT!!!". It was about 15 years ago and I can remember it vividly to this day, as it was such a weird feeling.
We have a pair of HEPA filters in our kids rooms. They are great because they produce that white noise that's good at masking other noises (that and it helps keep the dust down in the rooms). I did a little research on the whole issue of white noise and sleeping and just like everything else in life, opinions are mixed. On the one hand it turns out that one of the therapies used for people with hearing problems is exactly that, to have them sleep with white noise. But then there are others that say continued exposure can be bad. Then there are others who say that masking "normal" noises makes it harder for the kids to adjust to sleeping in a "normal" setting (i.e. sans white noise), though my kids seem to do just fine either way. My daughter just got her hearing checked and everything was perfect. We recently (about 2 months ago) stopped using the filter in our daughters room. We only turn it on if we know there is going to be some extra noise going on (watching an "action flick", or having friends over) and it works great for that. Our son still has his on all the time though, but we'll probably start cutting back soon. BTW, the whole reason for getting the filters in the first place was because they both had pretty bad allergies. Our daughter is much better now and our son improving, so that is the primary reason we're cutting back on running the filters (i.e. it's not noise related).
If I get more than 5-6 hours of sleep, I ALWAYS feel like crap the next day. I feel more sleepy than if I got 4 hours. I also can't take naps, I always feel terrible after waking from a nap, which really sucks if you're really tired. Luckily I almost never have time to actually take a nap, so it's not usually an issue.
Funny thing is that I can only remember once in my life that I awoke from sleeping and thought "MAN, I FEEL GREAT!!!". It was about 15 years ago and I can remember it vividly to this day, as it was such a weird feeling.
We have a pair of HEPA filters in our kids rooms. They are great because they produce that white noise that's good at masking other noises (that and it helps keep the dust down in the rooms). I did a little research on the whole issue of white noise and sleeping and just like everything else in life, opinions are mixed. On the one hand it turns out that one of the therapies used for people with hearing problems is exactly that, to have them sleep with white noise. But then there are others that say continued exposure can be bad. Then there are others who say that masking "normal" noises makes it harder for the kids to adjust to sleeping in a "normal" setting (i.e. sans white noise), though my kids seem to do just fine either way. My daughter just got her hearing checked and everything was perfect. We recently (about 2 months ago) stopped using the filter in our daughters room. We only turn it on if we know there is going to be some extra noise going on (watching an "action flick", or having friends over) and it works great for that. Our son still has his on all the time though, but we'll probably start cutting back soon. BTW, the whole reason for getting the filters in the first place was because they both had pretty bad allergies. Our daughter is much better now and our son improving, so that is the primary reason we're cutting back on running the filters (i.e. it's not noise related).
habilis
Ministry of Re-Education
Yeah, I have the same No-Nap curse. I feel like absolute hell for like 3 hours if I take a nap. 5minutes, 1 hour, or 2 hours produces the same ultra-grogged out experience. I's almost impossible for me tot take a nap in the first place, I'm not good at it, and in the second place I don't have the time, so it works out anyway.
chemistry_geek
Registered
Well, this ultra-grogged-out feeling you guys are talking about is from REM sleep, and I mentioned this a little earlier in this thread. It's part of the side effects of the neurotransmitters and other things released in the brain during REM. Sleep is like a chemical titration, you want to reach the end point, but go no further. Go any further and you over shoot the end point and you feel like crap for hours, and no amount of JOLT cola, coffee, or any other stimulant is going to diminish it any sooner.
binaryDigit
Registered
The only problem is that wrt naps, it doesn't matter if I sleep for 15 minutes or 4 hours, I still feel like crap (just like Habilis). Now that makes more sense for night sleeping, as I've felt the effects of oversleep many times before, and though mentally tougher to overcome, undersleeping is much preferred. Thing is, I've basically have had this sleep pattern for literally as long as I can remember (we're talking early grade school). I have no doubts that it's not "natural" and I'm sure I'm going to pay the price, but after around 9:00pm or so, I always get this second wind and feel better from 9pm-2am then I do from noon-5pm (which doesn't do much for my work, but is nice for my own projects
).Maybe Habilis and I can check ourselves into a sleep clinic so they can do some research
habilis
Ministry of Re-Education
Ahh, yes the infamous nocturnal second wind. I get this same second wind just a little after I put my daughter to bed around 8:30pm. Like you and toast I also find my most creative and productive time is at night, after everyone's asleep so I can concentrate.
On a related issue, I was trying to get 8hrs a night this week as an experiment to see if it makes me feel any better but I have failed miserably to get 8 hrs. 6 has been the norm. I'll have to try again next week.
chemistry_geek
Registered
Originally posted by binaryDigit
The only problem is that wrt naps, it doesn't matter if I sleep for 15 minutes or 4 hours, I still feel like crap (just like Habilis). Now that makes more sense for night sleeping, as I've felt the effects of oversleep many times before, and though mentally tougher to overcome, undersleeping is much preferred. Thing is, I've basically have had this sleep pattern for literally as long as I can remember (we're talking early grade school). I have no doubts that it's not "natural" and I'm sure I'm going to pay the price, but after around 9:00pm or so, I always get this second wind and feel better from 9pm-2am then I do from noon-5pm (which doesn't do much for my work, but is nice for my own projects
Maybe Habilis and I can check ourselves into a sleep clinic so they can do some research
Most people who take cat naps in the day time are clinically sleep deprived. This can be verified by an MSLT (Multiple Sleep Latency Test). If you have early REM onset during the MSLT 20 minute time period, then you are sleep deprived. MSLTs are scheduled in 2 hour intervals for 20 minutes four times during the day. Most people who have cronic sleep deprivation will enter REM sleep when given the chance to sleep. This is why you mostly feel just aweful after that nap, too much REM sleep and not enough of the restorative delta sleep. The brain will substitute one form of sleep for another.
binaryDigit
Registered
Hmmm, you seem to be knowledgable in the ways of sleep. A question. As stated before, if I get "too much" sleep, I feel like crap. So how does one try to get oneself back into a "good" pattern. Any more sleep than what I currently get yields negative results. Do you just suffer through this period as your body/brain adapts? Perhaps even though I'm sleeping longer, it's still not long enough and I need to just sleep even longer? It seems like this might be a classic "things just have to get worse before they can get better"/"bitter medicine" kinda deals?
chemistry_geek
Registered
Please read some of my earlier posts in the thread. To get back on a good sleep pattern:
1. Try to make your sleeping environment as comfortable as possible. This includes making the room as dark and quiet as possible. Try lowering the termperature in the room to approximately 60 to 65 degrees Fahrenheit. If you need ear plugs to get the optimal quietness, try the soft waxy ones (don't role them into a thin loaf and insert them into the ear canal, they break-off and can get stuck inside your ear - I speak from experience). Get room darkening shades if necessary.
2. Make the bed as comfortable as possible. I sleep on cotton flannel sheets, a down featherbed, goose and down pillows, and down comforter year around, no matter what the weather is. If want to explore this route, just remember, you get what you pay for.
3. Go to sleep around 9:00 to 10:00PM depending on when you have to wake for school or work. Plan on sleeping 8 solid hours, so schedule your daytime events accordingly. No heavy exercise in the evening. Plan the evening towards "winding down". No playing Quake3Arena or Unreal Tournament.
4. Don't eat large full meals for two to three hours before bed. If you need a snack, make it quick and simple.
5. When you go to bed, try not to think about the day's events if they were stressful. Try to reduce your stress if you experience any. If you need to watch TV or read a book before bed, then do it for about 30 minutes. When you first get sleepy, turn everything off (lights/tv/radio) and go to sleep. Don't forget to set your alarm clock if you need one.
Melatonin is an over the counter supplement available at healthfood stores. It is a naturally occuring hormone that is produced in the brain (builds during the day and peaks just before sleep - helping to make us sleepy), but decreases as we age. READ UP and RESEARCH this before considering taking this, and consult a doctor if you think it's necessary. I'm not advocating taking melatonin, I'm just explaining available options for improving your sleep. Melatonin helps to "reset" your biological clock (circadian rhythm). It is taken 30 minutes before you want to go to bed for the following few days. So if you want to go to bed at 9:00PM the next few days, take it at 8:30PM. You should get sleepy around 9:00PM the following night. Taking this nightly isn't necessarily going to improve your sleep. You won't sleep any deeper taking melatonin than without. It's simply used to rest your biological clock.
There is no magic over-the-counter pill that will make you sleep as solidly as a small child. You have to put some effort into making sure you get the QUALITY and QUANTITY of restful sleep.
Darkshadow
wandering shadow
Oh haha, aren't we witty today?
(Losing my Religion is a good song though)
chem, could a messed up brain chemistry alter circadian rhythms from what they "should" be? I'm really serious when I tell you that staying on a day schedule produces the same effects in me that someone trying to stay on a night schedule says they have.
To keep ya from having to dig through the other thread, and to add some to it, my hippocampus is malformed/damaged and has been as long as I've been alive. Doctor couldn't tell if it was a malformation or if some trauma in the womb caused it, but it doesn't matter overmuch which it is. Outcome is the same. That's also not the only part of my brain that isn't quite right, quoting the doctor here: "Your brain is wired screwey." (Really, that's what he said)
'Course, I'm just asking your opinion on this one, as I'm sure you don't have a whole lot of knowledge on how my weird head may effect sleep patterns.
(Losing my Religion is a good song though
)chem, could a messed up brain chemistry alter circadian rhythms from what they "should" be? I'm really serious when I tell you that staying on a day schedule produces the same effects in me that someone trying to stay on a night schedule says they have.
To keep ya from having to dig through the other thread, and to add some to it, my hippocampus is malformed/damaged and has been as long as I've been alive. Doctor couldn't tell if it was a malformation or if some trauma in the womb caused it, but it doesn't matter overmuch which it is. Outcome is the same. That's also not the only part of my brain that isn't quite right, quoting the doctor here: "Your brain is wired screwey." (Really, that's what he said
)'Course, I'm just asking your opinion on this one, as I'm sure you don't have a whole lot of knowledge on how my weird head may effect sleep patterns.