First Time Mac buyer looking for help...

J

jb22

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I'm looking to getting my first Mac. I've used Macs before at work and school but always had an Intel machine at home.

I'm looking to get a DP G4 867Mhz, 512mb PC2100 DDR Ram, 60gb HD, SuperDrive, and an ATI Radeon 9000 64mb DDR dual display.

What I want to know if this is a good time to buy a Mac or will new G4s with newer CPUs or mobo come out in like a couple of months?

Also, I want to mainly use my Mac for video editing and design work. So most Adobe and Macromedia apps is what I'll be using. Is the rig I want to get good enough.

I'm looking for stability and reliability over breakneck sppeds since I'm not a gamer.

Some people are saying that Macs scuk for vidoe edting (and this was on another Mac forum!) so I'd like some input.

I'd also still be using my P4 1.3ghz machine so if certain appsl ike Windows better I'm okay.

Thanks.
 
The dual-G4 867 should be a fantastic rig for design and video, and I'd have to say the Mac is a far superior video editing platform since it supports all the major packages such as Premiere as well as Apple's own Final Cut Pro/Express line.

While there is a possibility that Apple might introduce 64-bit processors in the not-too-distant future (sometime later this year, we suspect), they are at least a few months away, and once released you would have to wait for the next versions of your application software before it would be optimised for the new processor. So, you'd be waiting over a year anyway.
 
i've got the exact rig (ATI 9k, SuperDrive and everything!)and i love it. i know that's not much help, but hey, it's some encouragement ^_^.
 
No that's good to hear. I just don't won't to buy a new Mac now and then have like a new G5 become available in a month!

I was thinking that maybe new G4s would be out with fire wire 2 support but it doesn't really matte to me since my mini DV camcorder and external drive are all fire wire 1 based.
 
i wouldn't expect too much of a speed bump in the next 6 months, the things you'll probably see updated are built in bluetooth, backlit pro keyboard, airport eXTReMe™, firewire 800, faster superdrive.
 
A faster superdrive would be nice, but the rest of that stuff really doesn't matter to me. I mean I could always buy a fire wire 800 oci card if I ever got any newer fire wire 800 devices. And the Bluetooth and airport extreme would have no use with me.

I probably won't be able to afford any new G4 loaded with all these new things any way!
 
I'd guess new PowerMacs will be released in February. Probably not a very big speed jump, but new motherboard with FireWire 800, AirPort 54 Mbit capabilities and possibly Bluetooth.
 
The danger always is that you buy a computer and a better one comes out. However, get one that you can upgrade easily like the G4's that are out now. YOu can upgrade video cards (screen and rca inputs) and have a ton of options. I even had a 7200/90 Mac that had RCA inputs for audio and video that worked quite well (8 year old computer now that I have since sold).

I have done video editing on the PC and just hate fooling with the pcs file interface. The Mac makes it easier just saving and viewing files not to mention daily maintenance than the pc is.

Hope this helps!
 
Hey JB,

I have owned about 10 personal Macs in my life and I have learned a few lessons. First, the price drop thing can be painful. My strategy is to buy the middle model (not the slowest, not the fastest) after the first price drop. When I have done this, I always end up with a Mac that lasts for years.

I did NOT do this with my recent purchase of a DP 1 Ghz, but I am still very happy. Like you, I wanted to do video editing. I spent two hours in the Apple store running the same iMovie transitions on the DP 867, 1 Ghz and 1.25 Ghz. Though there were some speed differences in rendering effects and transitions, they were all very fast and I think you would be happy with the 867. So why did I get the DP 1 Ghz? Well, the super drive was a big factor. External DVD burners will not work with iDVD (maybe DVD Studio) and though you can buy an internal Pioneer (don't know the exact model) just like the Apple, it is about $300. Okay, $300 is not $1000 (the diff between the 867 and 1 Ghz) and although I could say the faster bus on the DP 1 GHz was a factor, it is really more related to my impulsiveness and my personal motto, "I will never ever regret buying a better model, but may regret buying a lower model." Still, you could buy the 867 and spend the "extra" $1000 on a couple of extra drives and a DVD burner. The slower bus issue may be a factor in future processor upgrades, but I really don't know what I am talking about. Besides, when faced with a processor upgrade, I always end up buying a new Mac.

Also, here is a big tip I think will help you no matter what you buy. The great thing about Apple stores is all their computers actually work and have network connections. The RAM for these new G4s is very expensive ($200 for 256 MB!!!). MacMall had a special (and still may) where you would get a free extra 512 MB with the purchase of a DP G4. I showed the Apple store rep this MacMall page/ad right on ther DP 1.25 GHz with the giant cinema display and they matched the deal (I was polite, and simply expained that it was very logical for me to buy this from MacMall). The Apple store matched the price (though the store manager kind of whined about it) and gave me the extra 512 for a total of 768 MB of RAM - and this seems fine for all my purposes. If MacMall has this deal, print it out and the url and go to an Apple store. Play with the 867 and 1 Ghz and see what you think.

Any way, if history is any factor, I would expect a drop in G4 prices soon.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the advice. I don't think we have Apple stores in Canada but there are a couple of really good Apple dealers in the Toronto area.

As for the model I want, the DP 867mhz, of all three models out now, that is the best value since it come very close to the DP 1ghz model. Then there's the DP 1.25ghz but that's a little to much $$$ for me.

Any way, I'm getting a superdrive and an ATI Radeon 9000 so I think this setup will meet all my needs for while.

Right now my concern is that I've heard people are having problems with the fire wire ports. Since I have an external fire wire drive and mini DV camcorder I will be making use the fire wire ports.

I've also been reading up on the noise issue and from what I can make out I don't think it'll bother me too much since I've been use to the hum of PCs for a long time.

I have decided to get the AppleCare program when I get my make just incase something goes wrong. Dowsn anyone know if they provide on site service wit hthe AppleCare program?

Thanks.
 

Any way, I'm getting a superdrive and an ATI Radeon 9000 so I think this setup will meet all my needs for while.
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Hey jb - I'm a little confused. Are you buying the DVD and the card seperate or ordering them with the 867 from Apple? Forgive me if you know this, but "stock" the 867 does not have a superdrive and comes with the NVIDIA GeForce4 MX. If you order it with these options that puts you up an extra $300 (US any way). Now you are only $500 from a DP 1 Ghz, but it has a larger drive (80 to 60 GB). 20 GB is worth about $100, so now you are $400 from a DP 1 GHz. No offense, but the 1 GHz is more similar to the 1.25 than the 867. Both the 1 and the 1.25 have the faster system bus.

MacMall has the DP 1 GHz with 768 MB RAM for 2533.99 (http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=590880) or the DP 867 with the same RAM for for $1733.99, but they cannot put in a superdrive or 9000 for you.

Gosh, I sound like a pushy slime ball salesman! I know $500 is not chump change, but if you can swing it, it may be worth it. Then again, you can spend more on a second monitor and that is worth more than slightly faster rendering times.

Also, these suckers are LOUD, but you get used to it. Just don't plan on recording any audio voice overs near your computer! I have had zero issues with firewire and right this minute I have 4 devices plugged in - camcorder, Hollywood Dazzle DV Bridge, 80 GB Firewire drive and a scanner. The only firewire issue I know of is with Final Cut Pro and Firewire drives - safe for backing up files of course, but it doesn't like them as a scratch disk. I just bought an ATA 133 120 GB drive for $160! I use this for all my video/FCP media.

Again, good luck and you will have fun no matter what you get.

Yes, Apple care now is on site, but that is reflected in their price increase. It aint cheap.

One last thing - rumors of new G4 models in February can only mean lower prices on the existing models. I suspect you are very very very close to a price drop. Might be worth waiting a few more weeks.
 
I am not ordering a stock DP 867 G4, but am getting a custom built one. I can order a custom system from my college bookstore or most local Apple retailers, not just from Apple.

The reason I was looking at the DP 867 is becasue it is the best price/performance option, atleast up here in Canada.

The DP 867ghz will cost me $3,373 Canadian. The same setup but with a DP 1ghz will cost me $4,093. Each system is the same with 512mb ram, 80gb hard drive, superdrive and Radeon 9000 video card. That's a just over $720 less and I can't see spending that much more for not so much faster performance.

I might take a second look to see how close my price is getting towardds a DP 1ghz but I'm am trying to save as much money as I can.

I guess I will try and wait a couple of weeks to see what happens, but I want my Mac now!!! Oh well, I'll really kick myself if a new G4 series comes out and I miss out by a week!
 
It has been some time since I kept up with US - Canadian currency rates. I grew up in Detroit ("North of Canada") and the only time I really paid attention to currency rates was on beer runs to Windsor, Ontario. :D

Any way, it sounds like your school has a good deal and with those prices the 867 is the way to go. I would have done the same if I had the same kind of deal, but like you I just wanted my Mac! You probably have nice educational prices on software too - are you going to get Final Cut Pro?
 
My school does sell pretty much a lot of apps at academic prices, bet they're still really expensive, atleast for me. Director 8.5 is still selling for just over a $1000 at a student price. Most fo the Adobe apps are between $300 and $600. I'm not sure how much Final Cut costs but if it's too much I might try and trake down either version 2 or take a look at Final Cut Express.
 
Originally posted by jb22
The reason I was looking at the DP 867 is becasue it is the best price/performance option, atleast up here in Canada.

The DP 867ghz will cost me $3,373 Canadian. The same setup but with a DP 1ghz will cost me $4,093. Each system is the same with 512mb ram, 80gb hard drive, superdrive and Radeon 9000 video card. That's a just over $720 less and I can't see spending that much more for not so much faster performance.
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JB,

If you have identical video cards in each of the latest G4's, you will see rendering come out to be about the same speed on each machine. Sure, the faster machine will render a bit faster, but in general you will see the same results.

But if you take video ram out of the faster machine and add it to the slower machine, you will see a dramatic increase in the rendering time for the faster computer.

If you do decide to go low end on the G4 purchase (as if somehow you could classify the machines as low end!) give a nod to purchasing more video ram. This is a bug factor at rendering movies that people do not think about.

When I am ready to render a big video file, I find that I can do it far faster on my friends G4 800 MHz Dual than my own G4 450 MHz. Dramatically faster. But he finds that the performance on his iMac and his G4 was about the same until he really bumped up the vram.

As far as rumors for new machines, I think you will see new iMacs and eMacs soon, but I am not sure about G4 towers. There will be a big increase later this year, but until then Apple is limited on their processor speeds for the moment.

Good luck on whatever you purchase!
 
Thanks for the tip. By vram you're talking about the ram on the video card or the actual ram of the machine?

Hopefully, the Radeon 9000 will last a while with 64mb of ram. I only plan on getting 512mb or ram at first, but will probably upgrade later on to 1gb.

As for making my purchase, I'm holding out until the end of this month. I've heard tha Jan. 25th is the date Apple may say something. Any way, the only real things I can see changing is the addition of fire wire 800. At least if I wait until after the 25th, I can get the iLife software already installed on my machine.
 
You should seriously consider the mac as the video/film editing solution you are looking for as macs are by far used in these industries most often.

I promise you will regret ever buying a pc machine if you are going to do professional production, yes the G4 will be a great buy but you should also consider Final cut pro which is also now the most widely used professional editing software solution.

If you havent already bought your computer the new G4 Powerbook is a really good option...

Cheers...
 
I've already made up my mind about getting a Mac, I'm just waiting until after the 25th so I can get the latest versions of the "i" apps so I won't need to purchase iLife. I'm also waiting to see if the revise the Power Macs with newer features such as fire wire 800 and maube address the fan noise problem.

As for regreting buying a PC machine for doing video owrk, I already own a P4 1.4 ghz machine which I when I started college in August of 2001. The machine is actually pretty good for video editing. I can run Premiere and After Effects fairly well with out any problems.

I don't think I could get by with just one machine. I like the option of having both, even if it's just for testing purposes.

I think I'll use the Mac for editing, DVD authoring, and the PC for graphics work, since I like Photoshop in Windows better then in Mac OS.

I also want a Mac becasue it's life span is longer then a Wintel machine. I'd like to still be using my Mac in 5 years if possible.
 
I'd like to still be using my Mac in 5 years if possible.
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Yeah, you'll still have your Mac in five years, but I'm not so sure you'd "like to still be using [it]". You'll want the latest Mac, laptop or desktop. Consider yourself an outcast if not.

Everytime Apple releases new computers, I drool. I bought an Indigo iMac in October of 2000. It was replaced by an iBook in May of 2002 (a month after it was released). I then bought an iMac G4 in October, 2002.

Now, I just own the iBook, and I want a 12" Powerbook to replace it.... mmm... tempting. I hope I can wait till Apple releases a laptop with a new processor. Maybe I should start saving up.
 
Originally posted by jb22
Thanks for the tip. By vram you're talking about the ram on the video card or the actual ram of the machine?

Hopefully, the Radeon 9000 will last a while with 64mb of ram. I only plan on getting 512mb or ram at first, but will probably upgrade later on to 1gb.
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Video memory or VRAM is the memory on the video card or the ram meant for the video display.

512MB to 750 MB is a good start for RAM. You will never be disappointed that you have too much RAM. I edit video on my PowerBook with 384 MB of RAM. It's a bit slow when I use iMovie, but it works.

As far as the video card goes, you will see a bigger boost in performance by adding an additional 64 MB of RAM to the Radeon card than you would see if you added an additional 1 GB of RAM to the computer. When it comes to rendering movies or rendering 3D objects, video RAM is a good key to speed. Many people will remember to bump the RAM, the cache, but video RAM is underrated in how it can better your performance.

Back when NeXTStep was still being sold and you could buy a brand new NeXTtStation or Cube, there was this really cool feature where your NeXT computer could seek out on the network for other free NeXT machines and use them to help work on a complex job such as rendering. It's the same principal behind the SETI screensaver, only you could have multiple computers working on one job. This is a power I would really love to see Apple exploit.

Imagine rendering a complex job and being able to look across the network, notice that your iMac was free and use it to help render the job.

I wonder what happend to that technology?
 
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