graphics card question

PowermacG4_450

PowermacG4_450

OS X Jaguar
got a powermac G4 AGP graphics.... came with a card in the AGP slot.

Also has PCI slots... I just upgraded the card, using a PCI card and slot.

What is the difference between AGP and PCI? which is best? faster?

Why would I use an AGP graphics card, and NOT the PCI card that I used?

this is confusing.... which one is newer technology?

I can tell you I bought PCI cause finding a AGP card for mac, no one had any in stock! :(
 
AGP = newer technology, faster, better cards

Apparently, Jaguar (OS 10.2) has a couple of technologies - Inkwell and Quartz Extreme - that will require a minimum of a 2x AGP card. Here are specs as presented by Steve Jobs at the WWDC:

Inkwell. Handwriting recognition technology. Recognized by any application that uses text, even basic UNIX applications like Terminal.

It is not possible on older graphics cards like RAGE 128 cards, said Jobs -- that means it'll work on newer iMacs and eMacs, but not on older machines, he emphasized. AGP 2x and 32MB video RAM are required for this new technology. Jobs said this puts Apple two years ahead of "the other guys."

Quartz Extreme: Takes the compositing engine in Quartz, and accelerates it in graphics cards. Combines 2D, 3D and video in one hardware pipeline via OpenGL. "Everything on the screen is being drawn in hardware by OpenGL." Requires AGP 2x and 32MB of video RAM.

Sorry about that...
 
PowerMac... to answer your question in more detail...

The AGP slot is unique from the PCI slots in that it allows the card to use SYSTEM RAM in addition to video RAM on the video card for graphics processing. Beyond RAM access, AGP also offers increased performance by allow the video card to transfer data with the processor at multiple points during the processors clock cycle. This technique is essentially like pipelining. This allows a AGP video card to transfer twice as much data with the processor in a given period of time as PCI does. This is referred to as the AGP 2x mode.

Admin
 
Originally posted by Admin
PowerMac... to answer your question in more detail...

The AGP slot is unique from the PCI slots in that it allows the card to use SYSTEM RAM in addition to video RAM on the video card for graphics processing. Beyond RAM access, AGP also offers increased performance by allow the video card to transfer data with the processor at multiple points during the processors clock cycle. This technique is essentially like pipelining. This allows a AGP video card to transfer twice as much data with the processor in a given period of time as PCI does. This is referred to as the AGP 2x mode.

Admin
Click to expand...


So, I bought a radeon 7000, PCI (didnt go AGP cause finding one in stock somewhere isnt easy)....

should I keep this card, or get an AGP one? I want to be sure I can run future versions of osX.
 
thanks for the info...

sounds like AGP is the right way to go.... already ordered it... PCI one is going back...

ouch! what a difference in price..

PCI card is $119

AGP is $169!! :(

The AGP in 32mb (ATI radeon) is hard to find in stock.... that was the only reason I bought the PCI one... anyway, CDW had it!

thanks again for the info.... hope your right.... everything you all said makes sense. ;)
 
I just threw a pc radeon 9800 pro in my digital audio, and i think it will work in any agp ready mac. as a side note, I put in a 733 mhz quicksilver g4 cpu i bought on ebay, overclocked it to 867 mhz, and wired 12 volts to the outlying screw hole on the cpu since its required. it works like a charm . i got a 8X agp pc radeon 9800 pro (cuz they're cheaper) and placed 2 pieces of tape on 2 specific connetcs to bring it down to 4x agp, and flashed it with a mac radeon 9800 pro rom. this is coming up from a 466 mhz machine with a rage 128 built in and tiger runs fast and perfectly. i will be putting together a package that will let you do the same things i just described. including the rom, the needed supplies list, and insructions. email me at themacbrain@yahoo.com for more details. i also got a stick of 512 out of an old compaq. this is the most hacked together machine i have ever had, and its a little workhorse! or if you want to get it done faster, just look on our best friend google.
 
um... AGP - without a doubt.

AGP is the newer technology. Like described above it has the ability to transfer data MUCH faster than any PCI slot.

What you need to understand is that these days a graphics card is almost seen as a second processor. Using Apple's "Quartz Extreme" technology it transfers the bulk of the display processing over to the graphics card - freeing up the CPU. You need a minimum of 32MB of VRAM in order to enable Quartz Extreme which uses PDF scripting to display the graphics. The result is faster, sharper graphics.

It seems you have gone with a Radeon 7000 AGP card. Which is a good card. Although when I went through this process a couple of months ago I found picking up a secondhand Radeon 8500 was better value and performance for your money.

The Radeon 7000 processor should run at the recommended 183mhz. But from experience I have found that Mac edition cards sometimes run slightly below that. At least it's not a cheap PC LE version which is usually downclocked so much that an ATI rage pro would be faster!

The trick is to download the "ATIccelerator II" app (which is a free download) which allows you to modify the processor and memory speeds on the fly - and is enabled at boot-up. Generally you can usually get a liitle more grunt out of any card. And if you apply cooling, you can overclock that card significantly.

I'm running a Radeon 8500 which seems very happy at 300mhz/300mhz speeds.
 
Correct. There is no mac edition Radeon AGP 7000 cards (only PCI).

However there are Powercolor branded Radeon AGP 7000 64MB cards available that have been flashed with the mac edition Radeon 7000 ROM - and these cards have earned a good reputation as a mac compatible card. (see Ebay). Don't think you can flash it yourself though, because Powercolor branded cards are very hard to come by and they are the only Radeon 7000 card that has a 128KB eepROM - all the rest have 64KB eepROM's. Mac edition cards differ only in the size of the ROM - mac needs 128KB sizes.

From my experience I would recommend the original mac edition Radeon over the 7000. Because it runs a lot faster and gives better performance. But that's entry level. I would suggest going with a Radeon 8500 or the newer 9200. The Radeon 8500 is slightly faster and better than the newer Radeon 9000.

Also there are the nVidia "GeForce" cards...
If you can obtain a GeForce3 MX - get it! - nice card - beats the rest hands down!
The GeForce2 MX is like the Radeon original and the GeForce4 MX is expensive but better than a Radeon 8500.

Then again, nearly all the above cards have or are ending their lifecycle.
Which doesn't mean they are bad cards - just something to consider...
Really, it all depends on your needs and desires.
 
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