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mikejuni

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Try out the latest Mozilla for Mac OS X at http://www.mozilla.org

- Aqua Look
- Sheet support
- Best standard compliance.
- With MRJ, Java enabled.
- Stable and fast

It starts to look really great!!!
At least equal to IE
 
Ed, please don't take this the wrong way, really... please.

But maybe Mozilla isn't as bad as you think... It at least adds some competition to another otherwise dead marketplace.

We live in a world driven by Biz-Dev MBA holding people who work with marketers and developers to create products that are proftiable! Without research like this their profits are cut... it is only a wise business decision for them to set it up to send crash reports and usage data to the developers.

I do see your point of view, but I am not so sure that you are being realistic in this matter.

I don't know... I am a Mac user and evangelist and generally have a distaste for anything from M$ and AOhell... but jeez.... you can't expect them not to do this type of thing.
 
rinse, you are basically right. but i can choose not to partcipate in it. and i think anyone who does should know what they are doing before they do. that's my only real concern. i believe in freedom of choice. i don't believe in uninformed actions and mindlessly following the leader who says - wow cool, mozilla rocks!!:)
 
My god! I just downloaded and tried the latest (nightly) mach-o release of Mozilla, and its speed is amazing! I heard it was fast, but I had no idea it's THIS fast! Pages appear almost instantly... Amazing effort. When it's finished it would no doubt kick IE and Carbon NN/Mozilla's butts!

Can't wait for it to be finished!!!

-B
 
Currently, the Mach-O mozilla is fast, but it is lacking some of the below features -
SSL support
Java support
Some bugs still hang around making is somewhat unstable.

The CFM build is almost complete, it is a little bit slower (I've check the latest CFM build and it had been quite optimized, it is a lot more speedier than the previous CFM build), it supports SSL and if you can find the MRJPlugin, it supports Java.

The Mach-o build is the future, but currently, both are usable.

Hope that by the time Mozilla reaches 1.0, the Mach-o build will be the default build of Mac OS X and it has all the features needed.

I can say that in the current version of Mozilla, it is definitely better than OmniWeb or iCab or Opera. It is a lot faster, more standard compliance (both HTML and scripting) and now it is good looking too!!
 
Thanks,
I guess I was looking in the area b/cuz I downloaded several diferent builds.

I'll check it out once I get home and get off these windows machines at work, yeccch!

If anyones interested I'll post a review later.
 
Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
here we go again:rolleyes:

if you are not familiar with mozilla and it's connection to netrape/aol,
please go here and read this first before you download mozilla

and once you have read the arguments for and agianst it, then make up your own mind. but do not mindlessly follow somebodies suggestion to use mozilla without being aware of the potential consequences
Click to expand...

Ed, I have read your arguments against AOL and they are valid. I hate the "With customers so easy to use no wonder we're #1" way of it. I have been using the Internet since 1992, all command line stuff back then. I actually kept on bugging my friend who was a comp sci major to let me play with Moasic on one of the Sun workstations because I wanted to SEE the web, so to speak. Then I started working for an ISP in 1995. I've seen it all. People thinking the Web is the Internet, etc. I hate AOL. Their typical user violates every netiquette code there is, often in one post. I don't have much respect for Microsoft either, but I do have a PC with some of their OSs on it, as well as Debian Linux. My first computer had MS-DOS on it, and I later went out to the NYU bookstore and bought Windows 3.0. Anyway, so both companied leave a lot to be desired. I don't like using either of their products. But right now it seems that IE is the best all-around browser, whether it's because it is as it as, or that it supports standards that MS made up. For Windows it's the only browser I will use. I use it more often than not under OS X as well. I try to use OmniWeb, but it isn't there yet. It crashes on me fairly often, and formatting sometimes sucks big timem ruining my experience. Try the Roxio site, for example. I have used Netscape since 1.2 and it was great back then, up until I think about 2.02 or something like that. As of 3.0, it got more and more bloated and unstable. I've been using IE pretty much full-time since 4.0 came out. 3 was decent, but not there yet. Under Unix (Linux), Netscape is the only real option, IMO. Mozilla I don't think supports Java yet, and there are some good browsers, but under X, I gave up trying to get Konqueror working. Too much work getting all the KDE libraries installed that it needed. I lost interest. So that's that. Now there is IE for Solaris and HP-UX. It sucks. I tried on my Sun to use it, as well as Netscape 4.x and Mozilla. I always ended up going back to Netscape 4 for support and such. And I hate Netscape 4. So my web-browsing experience under Solaris sucks. I have Mozilla, OmniWeb, and IE installed on my Mac. I try to use OmniWeb as much as possible, but sometimes it just sucks for certain stuff, and I have to go back to IE, which I am getting more and more frustrated with all the time. Not loading some images, lots of missing functionality. I love that OmniWeb is written in Cocoa. So that's that. There are good and bad things about all of them, and yes, bad companies involved as well. Where am I going with? Not sure, I'm losing track. I guess it's what works for you, functionally and principally.
 
Mozilla itself is a work in progress.
Sometimes things doesn't work. But since I am trying it almost from day to day, I found out that it is really improving. Today's build is better than yesterday's.
If we don't try it and try to submit bug reports, feature requests to it, it will never develop since it is a free software and guys uses a lot of time to develop it because web browser itself is a very complex thing.
Mozilla is standard compliance, and in the future, it will probably support Java well because of its relationship with sun.
 
Well I tried the new Mozilla (using the link supplied by Mike Juni) and I'm somewhat impressed. But not impressed enough to ditch IE over it. Sure it loaded pages quick and (to my extreme suprise) seemed to render everything perfectly! Including my stringint test of ESPN.com, FoxSports.com, my Bank of America site and this one. No other browser (besides IE) has been able to fully work all those sites until this Mozilla.

However, I've got a bit of 'obsessive compulsive' where I need everything to be neat and clean. Mozilla does has the new aqua look .. but at the same time it doesn't. They are still using buttons from freaking Netscape 4.7. The search button is huge and budugly and the little mozzila picture in the upper-right is odd. Also, the fonts used in the address bar, Nav bar, etc aren't anti-aliased. Once those comestic features get revamped I'll hop on board, but for now IE still looks more like a Mac app and runs just fine (IMO).
 
First of all, I'm a Mac User. This means that when I want to install new applications, I like the KISS (Keep It Simple & Stupid) method. I've downloaded the latested Mach-O Build to experience how fast Mozilla can run under Mac OS X. I'm using 10.1.2 in French but it shouldn't be a problem since OS X is kind of hybrid when it comes to languages (with all those Languages.lproj files). So, after decompressing the mozilla-macho-macosx-trunk.dmg.gz file and mounted the mozilla-macho-macosx-trunk.dmg file, the new volumes contains 2 files — libical.pkg and README BEFORE THINKING ABOUT USING. Of course, I read the text file before going any further...

libwidget (Required):
To use Mozilla Mach-O, you will need to copy the libwidget.rsrc file into your Library. If you do not have admin access on your Mac OS X machine, simply copy the file into the Library directory in your User directory. Otherwise, copy it into the main Library/ directory in the root level of your startup disk. Do not attempt to copy this file with the command-line cp tool, as it will not copy the resource fork. Just drag and drop the file in the finder.

WHAT!? Where am I supose to find that libwidget.rsrc file? What are they talking about? I understand the procedures and all, but why can't they include the file with this package? Oh well, I'll try to install the package anyway, running the libical.pkg... "Le logiciel a été installé avec succès! (The installation was successfull)" Is that so? The WERE IS MOZILLA?!?

Is there something I do wrong? Is the Mach-O build an update? Do I have to preinstall the Carbon version of Mozzila?

Running Mozilla.app (Required, duh):
First of all, copy the Mozilla application in this mach-o disk image to a sutable location on your hard drive, such as the desktop or applications folder.

Then, simply open the Mozilla application that you just copied into place. If this fails with a crash, open terminal in Applications/Utilities and use the cd command to the directory where you left the Mozilla Mach-O Application and then run:

# cd Mozilla.app/Contents/MacOS
# sudo ./mozilla

Wait for Mozilla to launch and then quit the application. It should now run without further problems.

There are NO Mozzila.app in my disk image!!! So MAYBE it's an update, I'm just too stupid to figure it out (since the word "Update" isn't written ANYWERE). So I downloaded the mozilla-macosX-trunk.smi file and installed it (well, perform the typical Mac Drag-N-Drop installation process) and ran it. Wow, it's really slow and crappy! I'm shutting it down, running the libical.pkg once again. Then I'm trying the Mozzila.app, but it gives me an error... So I perform EXACTLY what the readme file says : "If this fails with a crash, open terminal in Applications/Utilities and use the cd command to the directory where you left the Mozilla Mach-O Application..."

So in Terminal, under the folder Mozilla.app/Contents/MacOS, I'm doing sudo ./mozilla. It gave me the biggest longest shit-load I have EVER seen, like I was trying to read a crappy WordPad document under SimpleText! WHAT THE HELL!?!

Anyway, if someone can PLEASE post a STEP-BY-STEP process to install the Mozilla Cocoa (Mach-O) or whatever the name is, it would be REALLY appreciated!!! THANX...
 
First of all, Mozilla is a on-going project.

Yes, there are some components that still does not look aqua. But the programmers are working hard on every aspect to improve it.

Second, the Mach-o build seems does not work these few days. I've tried some Mach-o builds that are working and they are fast. But they are now working hard to make the scheduled the daily build process work. I think I'll try later for the Mach-o build again, hopefully, with SSL and Java support.

I am telling you guys to try it because I think they are making progress on improving their work. The software did improve a lot from time to time.
 
The mozilla aqua interface is a work in progress. It hasn't been around for a while and they can't get everything perfect yet. Just be patient on it. Mike Pinkerton (the guy in charge of this new aqua look) is a very busy man. Anybody could help out by making some nicer icons if you would like to and contribute them. I'm sure they would accept them if they were good.

Ed, you say that you dont want people to follow the leader in people saying "mozilla is great". But, all the person is saying is I think this is a great peice of software, you should try it. What you are saying is no dont even think about trying it. Read all my comments here and then once i've convinced you fully dont download it :). People should download it and make their own opinion.

Also Mozilla *isn't* AOL. AOL is just the largest contributer to Mozilla. I use mozilla and I dont use Netscape. If AOL wants to contribute to an open source browser alternitive then thats great! Anybody could take the mozilla source, compile it and put their company name on it. AOL is *giving* their programmers to the community for free! They will take the source and make it into Netscape, but still they are giving away everything as well. Beleive me, I dont like AOL's business practices either, but what I'm using isn't AOL.

googolplex

P.S. There is a new project started to make a version of Mozilla with a full cocoa interface. It is called chimera and it can be found at http://chimera.mozdev.org. It actually has code and it is actually functional unlike the old project called q.bati. At the moment (the project is very young) you have to compile it yourself, but there will be builds you can download very soon.
 
I think Ed's got some valid points about Mozilla and it's connection to AOL. It may be open sourced, but using it entails supporting a large, monopolistic corporation.

I refuse to use IE for this reason. It's on my HD because I need it once in awhile to visit some sites, but it only gets used in emergencies.

I've found the best all around browser to be OmniWeb. The 4.1 beta was unstable but newer sneakypeak builds are more stable. The great thing about Omniweb is that it's feature packed, it's at least as fast as IE, and it's gorgeous. There are a few pages it cannot view, but in my experience the page layout in OW is fine. And I like supporting a company like OW.

Mozilla is fast, but that's it. It lacks features, and I've found it a real chore to download files using Mozilla. But Ed's argument is Mozilla's break point for me, I refuse to beta-test a browser that will help AOL strengthen their grip on the Internet. The only good thing about Mozillia IMO is that it supports internet standards, so it's not as bad as IE.

What a great time to be a mac user, though! Never before have there been so many browsers for the Mac as there are now for OS X, and the current crop of browsers is continually improving, while IE stands still. I'm sure that within a year or so, one if not several of the independent browsers will be unquestionably superior to IE. It may be that they never have the ability to view ALL web pages the way IE does, but that's a function of M$'s monopoly, and the only thing that can be done about it is to refuse to use IE.
 
What most of you fail to realize, is that almost every web browser borrows from Mozilla's code base.

INCLUDING:
Omniweb, Opera, and iCab. And IE, I think in the early days.

Also, Mozilla has helped shaped the internet. Mozilla was the browser of choice back in the day because it had all the features. Frames, java, etc. If you want to avoide Mozilla simply because AOL now funds parts of them, go ahead, but don't surf the net.

Just go into irc.mozilla.org #mozilla. You will see very few people, if any, on the AOL pay-roll. AOL simply uses the mozilla technology to build Netscape. By doing so, they keep the Mozilla legacy alive.

besides the fact that AOL's "Bad practices" are debatable, they have done nothing to the thousands of world-wide contributers to the mozilla web browser.

I mean, just because AOL purchases company-x doesn't mean we have to stay away from that company. Infact, I think its stupid to. thats like letting a large corporation control you based on what it buys. Remember, aol has no say whatsoever about the Mozilla development.
 
Actually I do remember years ago before Netscape gained its foothold, and IE most decidedly sucked, there were dozens of small shareware browsers out for Mac & PC. We used to use one called "Web Shark". I'm glad to see other companies finally decided to compete in the browser fighting ring again. BTW, my favorite is also OmniWeb. Kilowatt is right, Mozilla is the fastest I've tested. With Omniweb though, I can easily filter our javascript pop-up windows and ever page looks like a nice PDF.
 
Laurent LaSalle,

the build you downloaded was one of the 1.1meg builds which were acciedently uploaded. It happens time to time. just browse the mozilla tree for a build arround 13megs thats mach-o. The cfm you undoubtedly downloaded seccond is not at all compatable with the mach-o.

I've never had to do the sudo ./mozilla trick, btw. Just launch it as an admin user the first time, I think that works.

If you check the nightly builds now and then, you'll find one thats to size.

Or, follow the build instructions :D I know they aren't pretty.

Part of being a mac users means not having everything handed to you on a silver spoon. we don't use windows. We don't just click.

come to think of it, I don't suggest you try this build (the mach-o that is). Its fairly concept at the moment as it does not support Java applets, flash, QuickTime, or saving files.

Only try it if you wish to see what its like to get a speeding ticket online :D caus its FAST!!!!

Edit: Here's a link to a working mach-o build:
ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/2002-01-31-08-trunk/mozilla-macho-macosx-trunk.dmg.gz
keep in mind this is 100% non profit work, so it its not up to snuff, too bad ;-)

sorry dude, you just got me worked up. No hard feelings, ok?
 
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