Has Apple forgotten Sherlock?

karavite

karavite

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Well, if Apple really reads these, I'd like to say I am a little disappointed at what appears to be neglect to Sherlock. When this first came out I used it ALL the time for local phone numbers/yellow pages as well as eBay and movies. The latter two still seem fine, but what is up with the phone book? When before I could enter business names (general or specific) and get very good results, now I seem stuck with your predefined categories and it is not cutting it. For example, I want to find a high end stereo store in my new town. The field is labeled "Business Name or Category" but typing in business names (ones I know exist) no longer produces any results - I live in Philly so we have plenty of all types of stores. Other times I get just plain weird things that can only be bugs - the other day I tried a search for an electronics repair store on my zip in Philly and I got 1 store back... in OKLAHOMA!

So, if you aren't going to support the phone book please just dump it or decide to support it (in terms of its database and search) and do it right like you used to. It's a shame - Sherlock was, in my opinion, evidence of what a rich client app could really do and how such an app could be superior to the web any day (meaning html based sites). For example, I'm sure you could easily show that using Sherlock for searching eBay is more efficient than using the eBay site itself! One day, if you ever do give us little tablets or other types of "information appliances" a well thought out app like Sherlock will be essential.
 
Sherlock never worked correctly in Switzerland. Maybe a localization problem, or just a lack of database. But most of the information you enjoy in the USA is not available here.
 
First, it should be noted that Apple never actually got Sherlock to begin with. Sherlock was done as a knock off of some of the tools from Watson. But Apple only really wanted to have the tools but didn't get the concept of what Watson really was... a web services development platform.

Originally Sherlock was a search tool, but as it had web search abilities with different sites, it was also classified as a web services application. At about the same time that Apple put out Sherlock in Mac OS 8, the Omni Group put out OmniDictionary for Rhapsody and OPENSTEP. OmniDictionary was designed to fill the void left when Apple/NeXT dropped the (bundled) Webster dictionary from OPENSTEP and Rhapsody. Because OmniDictionary accessed the online dict.org for information this application a web service.

The idea behind Watson was that instead of developers building individual apps for web services, they could build tools for Watson. One of the reasons web services as individual applications didn't take off was that if the resource page changed, the application would break. To fix the problem the scrubbing routines would need to be updated. Watson provided an easy (easier than making a stand alone app) way of putting together web services and keeping them updated.

Apple thought the Watson was great (gave it the most innovative application award) and then remade Sherlock in Watson's image... literally.

Apple put together Sherlock with channels that worked very much like Watson's most popular tools. But Apple didn't update them regularly and didn't really add any new ones. Worst of all, Sherlock was much harder to write channels for than making Watson tools.

Had Apple understood what they had, they would have remade Sherlock in Cocoa and made it as easy to write for as Watson (actually they should have just bought Watson) and they should have included a channel building development application with WebObjects (as this type of web services application would have been perfect for using WebObjects in the enterprise).

But Apple never got it. Sun did though... and they bought Watson.

Apple has (to a degree) learn from this. Dashboard is designed to be an easy to develop for web services platform in the Finder (the Dashboard concept itself is a new interface tool Apple has added to their applications like Motion). I still don't think they completely get it, but from the sound of early feedback from Dashboard users/developers, it is a step in the right direction.

Watson is still supported (tools being updated as needed) until some time in October. It is thought that Sun will release their version for Windows, Linux and Mac OS X around then.
 
I use sherlock everdy for accuweather and the guttenburg repository and love the caltrain channel. Every year a couple new plugin - ins are added by third party's. It's a shame it hasn't gotten more attention though.
 
RacerX - thanks for the history lesson! Watson, Sherlock... perhaps Apple should rename this version of Sherlock "Lestrade" since it appears to bumble through so much these days! :)

I had a feeling updating and data issues were at the root of my no longer useful Sherlock phonebook searches, but now I know more of why that is. I can appreciate the difficulties, but if they are not going to keep it up, it seems offering the phonebook as it is (clunky at best) is beneath Apple standards for quality. I mean I feel like a beta tester or something every time I use (or try to use) Sherlock now!
 
I use Sherlock as a dictionary. The rest of the functions are just too.... US centric and there doesnt' seem to be a way to localize them.
 
I use sherlock to check whether the flights arrive on time - when I am in US. And then for Gutenberg stuff, mainly those.

Yes, it has been forgotten. Some of its functions will be replaced / available also from other tools, e.g. spotlight.
 
Spotlight looks really interesting and useful, but it doesn't seem like it will have my old yellow pages as did Sherlock. Still, I can understand the huge effort to create and maintain that kind of data, so I won't complain too much, but it really was one of the most useful things. I miss it.

I wonder, could Apple provide a Windows version of Spotlight, or is the OS too integral? Would be kind of funny if Apple delivered on what MS has been promoting as vaporware for so long!
 
Just a thought:

Isn't a lot of Sherlock/Watson functionality going to be given to us via Dashboard?

i.e. Webcams, stock tickers, world clock, translators, etc (+ whatever the developer community chooses to create)

I think I prefer the Dashboard solution from a user interface point of view.

Am I missing something?

Kap
 
I don't know Ceroc - I have never played with any pre releases of Tiger, but if the functionality comes back and it works, well I will be happy. UI or not, what has happened with Sherlock, at least in the yellow pages, is it simply no longer functions. The data is all loused up and you most often get garbage on a search.

Okay, from what I see at http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/dashboard.html, this is not a direct replacement for Sherlock - datebook, stock ticker and other common tools (address, calculator). Spotlight seems limited to searching on the computer, so Sherlock's features for searching yellow pages, images, movies, phone book ebay, flights, dictionary and translation are just not there. That is unless Sherlock is also part of Tiger, but Spotlight is using its little magnifying icon (minus the hat), so I'm guessing Sherlock is dead.

If it is, why can't Apple just say they are punting on it? I am so sick of marketing department driven BS (like simply not mentioning something that is being sunset/dropped) - just tell us up front. We won't run away or laugh. I mean come on, not everything works out or can be supported while you are trying to build new computers and OS's.
 
karavite said:
so Sherlock's features for searching yellow pages, images, movies, phone book ebay, flights, dictionary and translation are just not there.
Click to expand...

A side note, on recommendation of someone here (i forget who) I've been using a search plugin for Safari called acidsearch. It comes with a bunch of preset search channels (like google images, google news, ebay, imdb etc etc), but what really impresses me is that if you navigate to a site with a search function and tell it to add a search channel it seems to automatically understand the syntax the search system uses. For instance, i set up a channel for searching this board just by going to the search page and hitting add. I wonder if you might be able to use this to replace some of the sherlock features you and other have mentioned here.
 
Thanks Ora - I installed acidsearch! Still missing my local yellow pages search - the one thing I really liked about Sherlock when it first came out. Having my computer be so connected to stores and places in my area was really cool.
 
You can use Yellow Pages on Sherlock? Directly? I know how to search for it, and then visit the site in Safari, but is it possible to seearch yellow pages within Sherlock?
 
Sherlock is too slow and everything is about the USA, so I dont really have a use for it.
 
Apple's guess probably was that people and developers would JUMP on Sherlock to extend and embrace it. They probably never wanted to do the actual _work_ of making it up to date and useful around the world. (Embrace and _let_ extend...?) Guess that plan just didn't work out.

However: That plan _did_ work out for, say, Safari/WebKit. People and developers _are_ using that, apparently.

Now: The demonstration of the newest Sherlock was quite impressive. I mean I'd love to use it that way. Enter pizza and get the delivery services in my vicinity. However: That's exactly what, internationally, just never happened.

Btw.: For dictionary stuff, OmniDictionary (free!) is the best, basically. There are even instructions somewhere on how to use OmniDictionary locally, i.e. when you're not connected to the 'net. Basically, you just have to download a whole lot of dictionaries (and keep them updated) and start a local dictionary server. I've tried this once about two years ago, and it worked beautifully. However: I AM quite connected and I did _not_ want to keep it updated by hand. Hence, I'm using it when online and I connect to the 'net through GPRS/Nokia 6600 when on the road if I really need the dictionary.
 
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