I am fed up!

gradic

Registered

You know what, I really wish there will be an open-source project to hack OS X so it will be like OS 9 on a single-user Unix kernel. No new UI, no new FS, no Cocoa, just good old great Mac OS. I am fed up with "one day you will love the new way of doing things".

The dock, the file system and the non-desktop centered metaphor sucks, get it?

Here is what I like about OS X:

* powerfull multitasking

* "wanna save?" dialog sticks to the document window instead of blocking the access to application

* the left-most application menu, with "Preferences" and "Quit"

* column view on the Finder

... I guess that's all. It's not worth switching from OS 9.

Now I will end my session of OS X and boot back in good old OS 9. Aaahhh...

____

Think Unix is cool? Get Linux. If you like Macs stick with OS 9. Enough is enough.
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
Does OS 9 "do it" for you ?
Then my friend here is a simple solution....
DONT GET OS X :)

You are happy....we are happy..the whole world is happy :)
 

jove

Member
Hello,

I couldn't stand MacOS X for the first two weeks. Now everything about 9, between its inconsistancies, crashing, and even aesthetics, I find grating.

Pure aesthetics - neither 9 or X are Mac-Like. The UI is should be subtle - look at 7.

Functionaly - X is more mac-like than 9. It is stable, more intuitive (but not for old-hats with prejudices), and offers more end-user functionality.

Some of the gradic's complaints have already been observed and acted upon for the latest builds of X.

X is not the hacked together MacOS9 we have grown to love and hate. New is not bad :->

Jove
 

dalee

Registered
Why argue over which OS is more Mac like? OS9 and OSX are both great in their different ways and I'm sure within the next year or so _ALL_ the features missing from OSX that people loved in OS9 will emerge as a result of shareware dev etc...

I would expect that just for the nostalgic peeps, some shareware developer will make something that works with Aqua to recreate the old mac interface - just like the version f aqua without all the animation that was designed for slower macs only it looks like OS9.

Personally I love X - sure it means I am constantly having to think about how to do things that are second nature to me on OS9 but the benefits of the new system (in particular networking stuff) far outway the drawbacks
 

gradic

Registered
I will be HAPPY if they would add my list of benefits
to 9 instead of starting from sratch and messing things up.

Much love.
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
Sometimes that is not efficient.
If you are trying to rework an old program to do new things
it is not at all efficient. It might take more time than it
would take to make a new one.



Admiral
 

jove

Member
Hello,
To expand on AdmiralAK's quote...

Several years ago Apple was three months from calling it quits or being the resourceless lacky of some other company. In a desperate move they purchased Next (alternatives were BeOS, liscence NT, Amiga, or do nothing). The Jobster was part of the package :->

Next was and is a complete OS with its own UI and some pretty amazing services. Apple had and still has the difficult task to repackage Next as its own. How to do that?

Most applications are developed top-down. Meaning you prototype a UI that fits the business logic and then you program the busness logic. Operating Systems require a bottom-up approach. Too many dependencies on the lower level exists.

The "bottom" was written at Next and worked. The "bottom" is why Apple purchased Next. They failed at least three times to create a "modern" OS on their own (Taligent, intent of System 7, and Copeland). Apple kept trying to shoe horn in a new "bottom" into the existing "top" - top-down.

So what does this rant of mine mean? Simply many of the behaviors, organization, and UI widgets in MacOS9 do NOT make sense in X. Design is an iterative process. The only way to do X justice is to let it evolve over time - not to stick in MacOS9 stuff in willy-nilly because some people fight change. The Stevenote at MacWorld showed they actually did :-(

Starting from scratch was necessary and did not mess things up. Starting from scratch is doing for the software what the iMac did the hardware.

I'm done.
Jove

PS
gradic, what exactly don't you like about X? Have you seen the latest builds of X? Big differences!

 

gradic

Registered
I loved it when I seen it, then I grow into hating it. It's not simple and obvious. One can give an iMac with OS9 to his/her 3 year old son and he is going to send e-mails by himself in the first day of use. Aqua is not that simple. Not by far.

Not to mention alienating Mac veterans.

PS: Yes, I seen screenshots, reviews and everything I could find about the new builds. The crappy folder structure is still there, the dock is still there, aqua is as lame as in the public beta.

Vive le OS9!
 

strobe

Puny Member
I'm fed up with people like you who told Apple to bring back the gawd damned Apple Menu!
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic

A three year old might as well be going into the extensions fodler and moving things around and causing havoc you...you..... (lets not go there shall we ?)

OS X is simple as well... you see the dock ? click on the mail icon (if not there just add it for you son). How extensivelly have you used OS X by the way ? Or are you just one of those back seat drivers ?

I will have you know that I am an OS X veteran and until recently I had not started to mingle an experiment with other Operating Systems. OS X rocks. Sure I do like OS 9, and I am writting this responce from Netscape on OS 9. Do I use OS X ? Of course! but I will use it even more when it comes out in full blast because the problems that I have not (getting my yahoo mesenger to work) will be solved.

What is wrong about the folder structure ? Does it NOT make sense ? apple-1 combo for your drives, apple-4 for your apps, apple-2 for your documents folder....and if you wish you may make aliases onto the desktiop like I put my drives on there....

I think that people are afraid of new things, or just arent adventurous. They have learned one thing and now are stuck using that thing forever.... I mean... your 1975 Chevy is nice.... but it's a heap of junk by now due to changing times, bad drivers, and salt on the roads....time to get yourself a 2001 model.


Admiral
 

comgil

Registered
I use the OSX PB since October and I enjoy it. But the new modifications of the 4K series are very good and I think they will help the common user (as I am) because it standardises the interface. I prefer to use the "finder" to manipulate my files (and not the desktop), the Apple menu becomes that lacks in the previous versions comes back with many good features...

In fact, I love OS X. With applications that are built for, it is a very good OS.

I hope Classic will be very "usable" in time, because today it is not the case (and in fact today, because I upgradated my OS9 to 9.1, i NEVER use Classic).
For today on PB, aqua is VERY TOO SLOW to be attractive. If it acquires the same responsiveness as OS9, the bet will be won because graphically it is VERY NICE.

For the Dock, it is VERY useful, even if it pops-up inadequately when the mouse come to close to the bottom of the screen (not good when you need to resize a window) when the automatic disapearing is on, and even if it hides everything in the bottom of the screen when it is fixed. And the mix of alias and applications in the same place is quite confusing, even if we can accommodate of it.

There are some problems, not all would be fixe for the final version, but things are not so bad. So there is no good reason to be fed up !!!
 

jove

Member
Hello,

It is interesting that we could find as many or more UI flaws in MacOS9 as there will be in the first release of X. But since we know MacOS9 and have accepted it, flaws an' all, we take it as the paramount of usability. Everything else is second best.

Sorry about using the Royal We :->

We cannot confuse usability with familiarity. I remember 12 years ago literally being afraid to eject a floppy disk because I was told to throw it in the garbage. Now I don't even think about it.

All OSs require training. X simply protects itself from those who don't have any :->

Jove
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
I prefer (and always have) to use apple-E to eject floppies and zips :p
LOL (this was a pain though in systems 6 & 7 since the ghost image was left on the desktop and the OS whined :p)

I am so familiar with OS 9 that my computer cant keep up with me LOL :p

time to change gears, learn the OS X terrain and then push it into 5th again :p


Admiral
 

jamin

Registered
I've been in a unique position - being STUCK with OSX! Everyone else has the luxury of bailing and going back to 9 when the changes become too much for them, or there are too many bugs...

I've got a Powerbook and no way to reformat or anything, and when OS9 died a few weeks back, I could only run OSX...and guess what - I've got used to it! In the past, I also found the folder's and the new way of navigating a bit of a pain to get used to. So I went back to 9. Now I'm stuck. Now I like it better :)

One thing I used to hate was that when you opened a folder in os9 - THAT was that folders window, and no matter where else you tried to open that folder, it would always go back to that particular window, with it's settings and it would remember the size of the window etc.. Although I fully use the multi-column view now, if I wanted to get X to do 9 folders I couldn't because quite often I find myself with windows open with the same folder contents! Which can be confusing, especially for the old 9 veteran.

I also miss my control strip - I had all these cool control strips, like one to tell me how much ram I had left, and one to tell me the speed and time of my net connection, all installed in action utils go mac. I miss these still, but I realise the dock will no doubt have almost ALL these functions in the final build. I'm assuming I can see my net conection stats in the dock via the ppp connect pref or something? Like the monitors pref that I've seen you can add to the dock in the final? (i'm only running the PB btw and still find it more useable and more stable and reliable then os9!)

The only problems I've had with being stuck with X:
• can't run Virtual PC
• can't install a couple of things
• can't run disk warrior (until I get the cd which I've ordered, which should fix my problem of not starting in os9 off my hard drive)
• word and excel (office 2001) have a bug that you can't get to the save as dialog box
• classic apps can't use ppp (use port reflector to fix at least for entourage)

I don't even mind classic apps quitting on me and having to restart classic - it happens NO more often than my whole system used to hang with just os9!!

I get a whole heap of advantages as well, like being able to use sendmail, updated stickies, using 'openup' for decompressing new x apps...etc etc.

Oh, and btw, to make classic fit in seamlessly with osx - try installing kaleidescope and getting the (almost perfect ) aqua theme - it REALLY works. You download the lucinda grande font as well, use 'smooth type' control panel and all your menus look almost exactly the same!! You can hardly tell the difference - entourage looks perfect, with the scroll bars and buttons and tabs all aquafied!

Well, enough dribble...
 

iwod09

Registered
it is a shame that some people are so stupid they cannot see true beauty when it is right in front of them. all the same -- as the first response said -- if you don't like osx then don't get it. if you prefer os9 -- no reason to upgrade. for those of you out there who were born with an iq above 11 -- you know that osx is apple's first real chance at having some future in the market. lets face it people, os9 is based on old dying archtiecture. apple needed a change or they too might soon find themselves old and dying. osx is that change. osx is apple's redemption.
 
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