I hate macs!! (sawtooth wont install OS, Help!)

PseudoKirby

PseudoKirby

Registered
this is extremely frusterating, and I have asked a great amount of people for help and I dont get much of a reply no matter where I go, unless of course I pay some tech $90 to look at it

Everything is sound hardware wise, I Have swapped out many parts and nothing works
replaced the Optical drive
Used many different versions of OS (X and Legacy)
Swapped HDD's
used many different combinations of its Ram 768 3 x 256) and a new stick


Current Setup in the Sawtooth PCI graphics 400MHz
one 10GB Apple stock HDD and one 40GB Maxtor
768MB (3X 256)
DVD drive


Cant upgrade the firmware, I dont know how when I cant get into any OS, and for some reason cant use the firmware upgrades on the OS 9 disc I have, and I dont think that there are any options for that it OS X


I cant get OS 9.2.1 on it, but I get MANY different errors each time I startup and extensions start to load

the only OS I could get to install and run without a hitch was 10.1, but that didnt last, and it wasnt a worthwhile OS to have installed, with all 3rd party programs being limited to either 9 and below and 10.2 and above


everytime I try to install an OS it just says there was an error and aborts the installation, it even did it when I was trying to install 10.1, but I tried so much that it finnally went through once

so I figured I would just keep plugging away and waste time trying to install 10.4.4 over, and over, and over again, and finally I got it installed, it became unresponcive at startup, I couldnt even boot from CD, so I formated the HDD and started over again


sometimes apon trying to boot from the CD I get a bunch of code and the "were hanging in here" error

other times a complete black screen with a white cursor in the top corner, Remininscent of Windows 9x boot error, but those are kind of rare, prolly cause I have tried to install a damn OS on this computer so many times

before I got the mac it was at some guys house which supposedly worked very well and had OS X on it (never was told which version) but my friend got it and booted it into OS 9 and kept it on for the week or so he had it before restarting to find the bomb errors that I am currently getting with OS 9, it USED to be able to boot up right in OS 9 40% of the time without an error but now it does it no matter what

but yea he gave it to me to fix it and I have been at it so long that he thinks its impossible and wont be fixed, told me I could have it

now its just sorta personal, this thing is getting on my nerves and I wanna conqure it


wait maybe its the IDE cable for the optical drive? I keep using the same one cause its sorta built into the Mac case, and right now for the life of me I cant find my IDE cables...



I just want a second computer, maybe something for just browsing the internet, or just watching video's


even though my PC seems like it would be much better for it with its 350GB SATA HDD's, 2.4AGHz P4 ect..



IDK this whole thing has made me hate macs or somehting, I used to be an apple fanboy and I would love to have a mac still, but the whole "we dont have problems" or whatever is wrong, I used to be into ibooks and powerbooks, been through alot of them, this is my first desktop mac

but fixing this mac is now more than just wanting to use it, its like its mocking me, it wont work and it seems like there isnt anything wrong with it hardware wise
 
One question. When you do get the desktop at all, is the date and time all wrong even after you set it properly? If so, then it could be the PRAM battery that's causing all the problems. The PRAM battery is located towards the inside-right of the logic board. It's a 1/2-AA battery after a good number of years (considering that this is a pretty old Mac), the battery does die out and needs replacing.

You can check here at We Love Macs for a replacement battery (use their Battery Wizard to findthe right battery for your model Mac). I also think that you can get this battery at Radio Shack if you show them a picture of it.

At the very worst, you could just have a bum Mac. Happens to everyone, even with brand-name Windows PCs. :(
 
nixgeek said:
One question. When you do get the desktop at all, is the date and time all wrong even after you set it properly? If so, then it could be the PRAM battery that's causing all the problems. The PRAM battery is located towards the inside-right of the logic board. It's a 1/2-AA battery after a good number of years (considering that this is a pretty old Mac), the battery does die out and needs replacing.

You can check here at We Love Macs for a replacement battery (use their Battery Wizard to findthe right battery for your model Mac). I also think that you can get this battery at Radio Shack if you show them a picture of it.

At the very worst, you could just have a bum Mac. Happens to everyone, even with brand-name Windows PCs. :(
Click to expand...

so I can get one of these from radio shack right?

liek what a dollar?


and no this stuff doesnt happen to windows PC's, either a certain part of the hardware goes out or its something software wise, which I can fix/replace both

I havnt had a PC that just wouldnt install an OS on it for what seems to be no reason..


how sure are you about it being the pram battery?
 
Considering that I've been working with PCs AND Macs for about 10 years, I can tell you for sure that I've seen this on BOTH PCs and Macs. I'm sure you remember the capacitor issue a few years ago that significantly troubled not only IBM's NetVistas, but Dell and some other PC manufacturers as well, and even some motherboard manufaturers like Abit, Asus, and others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_capacitors
http://news.com.com/PCs+plagued+by+bad+capacitors/2100-1041_3-5942647.html

So I stand by my statement on stability issues with BOTH PCs and Macs.

And considering that you're comparing a P4 to a Mac that was out when the PIII computers were prevalent, you're not making a fair comparison. Also, a computer that you build yourself doesn't count since you're always going to make sure that you get the right components. Manufacturers like Dell and Apple and others allow you some configuration, but the components are selected for you to choose from and may not always be the best. Comparing a self built computer to one that's manufactured by a company is hardly fair.

And for the record, I had a HELL of a time installing Windows of any version on a P4 system I had put together. Even Linux wouldn't install. It all boiled down to a faulty CPU and once the CPU was replaced everything was stable again.

So please, before you start making statements, do your research.

Anyways, it's possible that it is this battery. On older Macs, the battery is always suspected since they only run on average of 6 years...sometimes more, sometimes less. Think of it as the CMOS battery on a PC going bad. Date and time gets all screwed up and the PC acts erratically. If you checked the link I gave you and used that battery wizard, you would have noticed the price on the page that the battery wizard was linking you to if you selected the correct Mac. That should be the average price of the battery. Like I said, I don't know if they have it at Radio Shack, but you can try and check.

Next time, please ease off on the aggressiveness when you're asking for help. I understand you're frustrated but venting your frustrations on the people here that are helping you (and voluntarily so) is not going to get you very far.
 
One other thing. Do you have an extra PCI cards on that Mac? If so, remove them and try booting up with only the keyboard, mouse, monitor, and built-in components. The video card on those Macs was on the AGP slot so don't remove that (unless you have the video on a PCI slot for some reason, in which case leave it in as well). See if this resolves the problem for you.

Looking back, since you have a Power Mac G4 with PCI graphics, you might have the Yikes model and not the Sawtooth.
 
nixgeek said:
One other thing. Do you have an extra PCI cards on that Mac? If so, remove them and try booting up with only the keyboard, mouse, monitor, and built-in components. The video card on those Macs was on the AGP slot so don't remove that (unless you have the video on a PCI slot for some reason, in which case leave it in as well). See if this resolves the problem for you.

Looking back, since you have a Power Mac G4 with PCI graphics, you might have the Yikes model and not the Sawtooth.
Click to expand...

damnit your right, it is the yikes model, for some reason I kept thinking the Yikes! had the G3 blue and white case..

I wish I had a dual CPU G4, or something else, but this Mac was given to me, and I dont have the funds at this second to buy a mac
 
PseudoKirby said:
damnit your right, it is the yikes model, for some reason I kept thinking the Yikes! had the G3 blue and white case..

I wish I had a dual CPU G4, or something else, but this Mac was given to me, and I dont have the funds at this second to buy a mac
Click to expand...

Yeah, the G3 B&W was the Yosemite.

I can understand being low on funds. Having a family tends to take priority to funding my hobby of music and computers, but I wouldn't trade it for anything. :)

Try the suggestions about removing any extraneous components and see if that works. One other thing I forgot to mention was that if your friend gave you all of the discs that came with that Mac, there might be a Hardware Test CD somewhere. See if you can run that and it should tell you what's wrong.

About the battery, I have an old Motorola StarMax 4000 PowerPC Mac clone that acted like it had a dead power supply. I then remembered that some older Macs won't even turn on if the PRAM battery is dead. This was exactly the case with my StarMax. The battery had actually worked until earlier this year, and this Mac clone is from 1997. I determined that it was the battery when I opened it up and hit the PMU reset button inside. The thing then sprang to life, but once the power cord was pulled from the StarMax, it go into a coma again. Replacing that battery got everything in working order.
 
well I bought a $15 battery and it still does the same thing

what the hell else could it be


I hate this
and no there are no PCI becides the Video card
 
At the very least, you could install Mac OS 8.6-9.1 on it and it should work. I think The firmware was not only to allow for the installation of OS X, but also to be able to install Mac OS 9.2.x (OS X uses this version of OS 9 to run the Classic environment). However, since PseudoKirby has the Yikes model and not the Sawtooth, he doesn't need the firmware update according to the Apple page you provided.

Also eric2006, the one you listed is Mac OS 8.1, which might not run on that Mac. The Yikes came with OS 8.6 according to Low End Mac.

http://lowendmac.com/ppc/g4.shtml

PseudoKirby, did the person that gave you that Mac give it to you with the original RAM that shipped with that Mac? If not, see if he still has it somewhere and test it out with only that RAM module.

Also, have you tried using one RAM module at a time and testing the Mac to see if it runs stable? Sometimes mixing and matching various brands of RAM, especially on the Mac, can cause problems since the Mac and the Mac OS are VERY picky about RAM timings. If the Mac is stable with just one stick then it could be the RAM....not that it's bad, but just that the timings on the three sticks differ slightly.

The other thing to try is performing an "Archive and Install" if you have the OS install discs for either OS 9 or X. This installs a new System folder and leaves everything else intact. If after this installation everything runs stable, then it might have been a bad extension or control panel (if under OS 9), or just a bad system file (in OS X). Just remember that during the point where you select the destination drive for the installation, you have to select the "Options" button and then select "Archive and Install".
 
And, as you can see from the firmware page, there is NO firmware update for the Yikes G4. (Yikes!)

Any possibility that your G4 has an upgraded processor?
Have you tried reseating the processor card in its socket?
 
That's what I get for typing so much at a snail's pace. :p DeltaMac just reiterated what I said about not needing the firmware on the Yikes G4.
 
It's possible that there's something wrong with the motherboard (given that you've tried replacing every other hardware component). I just fixed a computer that refused to completely boot into / install another OS. I installed a new motherboard/processor and everything was fine. You can get a replacement motherboard on eBay for about 15 bucks, here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-MAC-G4-YI...DVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140042057557

Of course, this is a last resort..
 
nixgeek said:
At the very least, you could install Mac OS 8.6-9.1 on it and it should work. I think The firmware was not only to allow for the installation of OS X, but also to be able to install Mac OS 9.2.x (OS X uses this version of OS 9 to run the Classic environment). However, since PseudoKirby has the Yikes model and not the Sawtooth, he doesn't need the firmware update according to the Apple page you provided.

Also eric2006, the one you listed is Mac OS 8.1, which might not run on that Mac. The Yikes came with OS 8.6 according to Low End Mac.

http://lowendmac.com/ppc/g4.shtml

PseudoKirby, did the person that gave you that Mac give it to you with the original RAM that shipped with that Mac? If not, see if he still has it somewhere and test it out with only that RAM module.

Also, have you tried using one RAM module at a time and testing the Mac to see if it runs stable? Sometimes mixing and matching various brands of RAM, especially on the Mac, can cause problems since the Mac and the Mac OS are VERY picky about RAM timings. If the Mac is stable with just one stick then it could be the RAM....not that it's bad, but just that the timings on the three sticks differ slightly.

The other thing to try is performing an "Archive and Install" if you have the OS install discs for either OS 9 or X. This installs a new System folder and leaves everything else intact. If after this installation everything runs stable, then it might have been a bad extension or control panel (if under OS 9), or just a bad system file (in OS X). Just remember that during the point where you select the destination drive for the installation, you have to select the "Options" button and then select "Archive and Install".
Click to expand...


what would that do different than Format and Install?


and I was swapping the ram out earlier
 
Archive and install shouldn't be much different than erase and install in theory, the only difference being that with archive and install, you save the previous system folder.
 
eric2006 said:
Archive and install shouldn't be much different than erase and install in theory, the only difference being that with archive and install, you save the previous system folder.
Click to expand...
I mean any different in affect to my problem


because I have been formatting and installing every time
 
If anything, formating & install would be better. Archive & install is good if you have something that you want to save from your old OS. You don't have a working OS on there, so there's really no point in an archive & install.
 
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