iLife -- appears I'm screwed and must pay another $50?

btoneill said:
They've done it so often now, it should be expected. Giving something away, getting users hooked on it, then charging for it is a great marketing system, it works, and it's used by 1,000's of companies.
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...and other, "less legitimate" professions too. ;) :D

Whether or not it is a common tactic, it doesn't make the method feel any less "dirty" to the consumers though. I don't think it would be good for Apple to get a reputation for being as dirty as the next company, screwing over its user base whenever it feels like it. That could have a longer term effect of slowly decreasing the consumer loyalty that is frequently associated with Apple, if they continue down this avenue for a long period of time. :(

(That's not an Apple-has-just-lost-a-customer statement, BTW ;) )


btoneill said:
As Apple always kept iMovie/iDVD/iPhoto as seperate packages, and not part of the OS itself, distributed seperately, people should have seen it coming. Now, if they took an application that is part of the standard OS install, say "Address Book", and started charging, then I could see people getting upset. Apple was originally going to stop downloads of iPhoto/iMovie when iLife first came out, but he changed his mind right before it was unveiled. The writing has been on the wall.
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I'm not so sure of this. Any new Mac will also come with these apps, but I believe iPhoto, iTunes, and iMovie were installed when I upgraded to 10.3. I did a clean install (from a wiped drive) so if my memory is correct, it was only iDVD I had to install from my old disks. If this is the case, then it gave more of a feeling of the iApps being part of "The System" in some ways. After all, if both the Address Book and iMovie are installed whenever I get a new Mac or upgrade my OS, what's to stop me associating the iApps with the usual applications that are bundled, and believing these apps are to always be "freebies" to any Mac user from Apple? This is part of the psychological effect I'm referring to.


ikoiko said:
- I have 4 macs in my house, we share photos, songs, etc. I feel I should load ilife on each machine, not pay $200 for the house. I know this is a different issue, but still....
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From a check of the US Apple Store, it looks like you can get a family pack for $79. That should make things a bit better. :)
 
No one knows for certain until the 16th. You can bet iTunes will be free. You don't really think they'd charge you money to access the iTMS do you?
 
Since you need a superdrive to use one of the four applications (idvd) and an dvd to use/load two of the applications (idvd and garageband)....they are really slimming down the audience for all this. I have a slot loading imac, two powerbooks....
The family pack is what i need, but this means $80 for iphoto/imovie.
But when I look at what they do...that is still a good deal....

dunno, in a quandry (iquandry)
 
First of all, why upgrade? Updates are small changes to a product, upgrades are usually not free.

No one is forcing anyone to buy.

Here is what you do... slowly lower your credit card, and place it on the table... and don't use it!

The end.

Why are some many people whining about having to buy something that they don't actually have to buy. If you don't have iLife '04 is your computer going to stop functioning? Are the current versions of your apps going to stop functioning?

Why is it so important that you have to buy something as soon as Apple releases it? Why is it such a big deal that they have advance the suite enough that they want to sell it (even at the incredibly small price which they are asking)?

First, control your impulse for buying at the drop of a hat.

Second, if you got something for nothing, be happy, you already have that something for nothing. Don't cry at the fact that the next something (which you really don't need) isn't for nothing any more.

This thread is painfully pitiful.
 
bbloke said:
..
I'm not so sure of this. Any new Mac will also come with these apps, but I believe iPhoto, iTunes, and iMovie were installed when I upgraded to 10.3.
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Wow, I just checked and I guess they did put iPhoto and iMovie on disk 2 of 10.3, it wasn't on my 10.2 disks.

So, I guess if you don't want to spend $50, wait till 10.4 comes up and get it with that? :)

Brian
 
btoneill said:
Wow, I just checked and I guess they did put iPhoto and iMovie on disk 2 of 10.3, it wasn't on my 10.2 disks.

So, I guess if you don't want to spend $50, wait till 10.4 comes up and get it with that? :)
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(chuckle) :D
 
ikoiko said:
Since you need a superdrive to use one of the four applications (idvd)
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Actually, you can use iDVD on a computer without a superdrive now to create projects. After you're done, you can archive the project, then move it to a computer with a superdrive to burn. So, in theory you could make your own DVD's at home, visit a friend who has a superdrive, and burn on his computer.

Brian
 
RacerX said:
This thread is painfully pitiful.
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I know, but I'm like a deer in headlights, I just can't get away from it :) Ofcourse, I also pulled out my credit card as soon as the Apple store was open after the keynote to place my iLife order, I just hope it arrives on the 16th :) $50 was a bargain for now having the ability for my wife to view the 2700 photo's in iPhoto on my computer from her computer. She'll stop whining to me about printing the ones she wants, she can now do it herself. Hell, I think I would have paid $150 for that option alone :)

Brian
 
btoneill said:
:) $50 was a bargain for now having the ability for my wife to view the 2700 photo's in iPhoto on my computer from her computer. She'll stop whining to me about printing the ones she wants, she can now do it herself. Hell, I think I would have paid $150 for that option alone :)
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Yes, but that was a meaningful upgrade for you. I was talking about people who buy for the sake of it being a higher version number or it being the "new" thing.
 
I think Garage Band alone is worth at least double the price of iLife. That would be justification enough for me getting it.
 
bookem said:
The Cube came with DVD-ROM (like mine) or CD-RW (like yours). :)

You could always fit an MCE or OWC SuperDrive.
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LOL. No thanks not @ the crazy prices they charge. I've spent more than enough on my Cube, I'd prefer to put good money toward a new system. :D
 
btoneill said:
Only iDVD and Garage Band ship on DVD's, iPhoto 3, iMovie 4, and iTunes 4 will be on CD's in iLife '04. You could always mount the DVD on another machine and access the files over the network if you want to install Garage Band on a non-DVD drive machine, or just connect an external firewire/usb dvd drive.

Brian
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Thanks for the info, thats interesting... I only have my Cube @ home, so thats kinda difficult. This is the only time i've ever needed DVD-ROM support - D'oh
 
RacerX said:
First of all, why upgrade? Updates are small changes to a product, upgrades are usually not free.

No one is forcing anyone to buy.

Here is what you do... slowly lower your credit card, and place it on the table... and don't use it!

The end.

Why are some many people whining about having to buy something that they don't actually have to buy. If you don't have iLife '04 is your computer going to stop functioning? Are the current versions of your apps going to stop functioning?

Why is it so important that you have to buy something as soon as Apple releases it? Why is it such a big deal that they have advance the suite enough that they want to sell it (even at the incredibly small price which they are asking)?

First, control your impulse for buying at the drop of a hat.

Second, if you got something for nothing, be happy, you already have that something for nothing. Don't cry at the fact that the next something (which you really don't need) isn't for nothing any more.

This thread is painfully pitiful.
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I don't think this is a wholly fair point of view!

Fine, maybe some people have older Macs and, as you put it, got "something for nothing".

However, the original poster, crawfordna, just bought a new PB in the last few months, and there was NO certainty that the iLife suite would be updated, as was so pithily pointed out by cfleck!

Up until now, iPhoto has been something that has been bundled with new computers, with free updates / upgrades (or whatever you want to call them) available...

Now Apple is going to charge for this.

I do understand crawfordna's frustration. I don't use iMovie or iDVD (FCP and Toast instead) and I certainly won't use GrungeBand...

I've got the Adobe CS suite too (lucky boy, eh?), so I don't need iPhoto to edit photos, but it was initially a nice app to manage them... until I introduced my library of pics!

There are tens of thousands of photos on my hard drive - I want to be able to access them easily - iPhoto was meant to do that, but after 1,000 everything stopped. I have an easier time trying to wake my girlfriend up in the morning than trying to "scroll" (HA!) through my library of photos with iPhoto.

Steve obviously recognised this. In his keynote, he specifically mentioned the fact that iPhoto wasn't designed with this number of photos in mind, but that digital photography had given rise to large photo libraries.

Given that, the ability to manage them sensibly seems more like an update to me than anything.

I'm having to use non-Apple apps to manage my pics now (Extensis Portfolio), but it really p***** me off that I can't use the stuff that Apple originally got me hooked on...

enough - rant over...

crawfordna - you have my sympathies!

;)
 
applewhore said:
However, the original poster, crawfordna, just bought a new PB in the last few months, and there was NO certainty that the iLife suite would be updated, as was so pithily pointed out by cfleck!
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There is never any certainty when you buy computers or software. These are the facts of computing life, has been this way for a long time.

Given that, my point of view is completely fair.

I'm having to use non-Apple apps to manage my pics now (Extensis Portfolio), but it really p***** me off that I can't use the stuff that Apple originally got me hooked on...
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I use a non-Apple app for managing my pics too, Curator. I was using Curator before iPhoto, I had no reason to want iPhoto, I removed iPhoto every time it was installed on my systems.

Come to think of it, I use a lot of non-Apple apps. I was using Watson before Sherlock 3, I had no reason to want Sherlock, I disliked Sherlock for pretty much the same reasons I disliked iPhoto (it is way too slow and doesn't function as nicely as the software I use). I was using OmniWeb long before Safari (since version 2.4 actually), I have no reason to want Safari since OmniWeb 4.5 was released, and OmniWeb 5 looks like it takes every thing I like about it a step further. I was using Acrobat before Preview, I had no reason to want to use Preview (other than for previewing images), Acrobat does everything I want... including editing PDFs.

On the other hand, some Apple apps I love. I love TextEdit, I've been using it as my primary word processor since I first used it in 1998. Mail has been a breath of fresh air for me, a nice mail app that just works. Address Book is another wonderful app. I love the fact that it shares it's abilities with a number of my other apps.

If Apple started asking a fair price for any of the apps I love, I would pay it. I don't see iPhoto (alone, by itself) being over priced at $50. I don't see iMovie (alone, by itself) being over priced at $50. I don't see iLife (the total suite) being over priced at $50. And I sure don't see where the original poster was screwed by having the original versions that came with his system or by having to pay this small fee for the new versions.
 
RacerX said:
There is never any certainty when you buy computers or software. These are the facts of computing life, has been this way for a long time.

Given that, my point of view is completely fair.



I use a non-Apple app for managing my pics too, Curator. I was using Curator before iPhoto, I had no reason to want iPhoto, I removed iPhoto every time it was installed on my systems.

Come to think of it, I use a lot of non-Apple apps. I was using Watson before Sherlock 3, I had no reason to want Sherlock, I disliked Sherlock for pretty much the same reasons I disliked iPhoto (it is way too slow and doesn't function as nicely as the software I use). I was using OmniWeb long before Safari (since version 2.4 actually), I have no reason to want Safari since OmniWeb 4.5 was released, and OmniWeb 5 looks like it takes every thing I like about it a step further. I was using Acrobat before Preview, I had no reason to want to use Preview (other than for previewing images), Acrobat does everything I want... including editing PDFs.

On the other hand, some Apple apps I love. I love TextEdit, I've been using it as my primary word processor since I first used it in 1998. Mail has been a breath of fresh air for me, a nice mail app that just works. Address Book is another wonderful app. I love the fact that it shares it's abilities with a number of my other apps.

If Apple started asking a fair price for any of the apps I love, I would pay it. I don't see iPhoto (alone, by itself) being over priced at $50. I don't see iMovie (alone, by itself) being over priced at $50. I don't see iLife (the total suite) being over priced at $50. And I sure don't see where the original poster was screwed by having the original versions that came with his system or by having to pay this small fee for the new versions.
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RacerX

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one!

To my mind, the idea of making one's Mac "the centre of one's digital world" (or whatever the strapline was!) included the software that came with it... (because it was!)

Now, however, it's not included. So, you CAN make your Mac the centre of your digital world, but you've got to pay for it... (not quite the same thing to me!)

You know what? I don't particularly care about it from my own point of view... I can afford (and prefer) the professional packages. What troubles me is that I've "sold" 5 PowerBooks this year for Apple, partly based on the bundled software, and I'm now left wondering how to explain why a piece of software that was previously upgradable for free suddenly has to be paid for...

And it's not necessarily a matter of "being" screwed... More to the point, I believe the important aspect here is that crawfordna FEELS he is being screwed!

People say that GarageBand / iDVD / iMovie are worth $50 - I agree. However, I believe that the majority of people's experience with digital goes little further than photography. I think it's a shame that Apple couldn't accommodate the "everyday" app, and charge for the others (interesting that iTunes is still a freebie, even though "they don't make any money" on iTMS! After all, iTunes is still software that is being updated and has a cost. Can we assume that once sales of the iPod have reached saturaration point that we will have to pay for upgrades to iTunes?)

bbloke's already said everything more pointedly than I can hope to at this time of day!

:confused:
 
guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one!
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Fair enough.

To my mind, the idea of making one's Mac "the centre of one's digital world" (or whatever the strapline was!) included the software that came with it... (because it was!)
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I agree completely. As a consultant I have sold many of these systems over the years on that very basis.

Now, however, it's not included.
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I'm sorry, that is a completely untrue statement.

So, you CAN make your Mac the centre of your digital world, but you've got to pay for it... (not quite the same thing to me!)
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iLife is still included with all Macs as far as I can see, though I don't see GarageBand included at this time. On the other hand, Apple does have an up to date program for people who are now buying systems. I believe $19.95 is the same price Apple has always charged for these types of updates (I remember 10.1 costing that much)

What troubles me is that I've "sold" 5 PowerBooks this year for Apple, partly based on the bundled software, and I'm now left wondering how to explain why a piece of software that was previously upgradable for free suddenly has to be paid for...
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You shouldn't be explaining anything. Apple never said free for life. You get what you get and should be happy when you get more. You (nor the 5 you sold to) are entitled to anything beyond what you paid for. If it wasn't worth what it cost at the time, then they shouldn't have bought them.

I wouldn't buy a car expecting the maker to upgrade the car to something better later on. The fact that Apple does these things at all should be welcomed. Acting like you have rights to gifts is the quickest way to not get gifts any more.

And it's not necessarily a matter of "being" screwed... More to the point, I believe the important aspect here is that crawfordna FEELS he is being screwed!
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The important aspect is that crawfordna isn't thankful for what he got and will always want more. Apple didn't used to bundle this much software with their systems. Today you can buy a Mac and no other software and be just fine. That is amazing. Sadly, crawfordna is just spoiled. Life is going to be hard for some one like that.

(interesting that iTunes is still a freebie, even though "they don't make any money" on iTMS! After all, iTunes is still software that is being updated and has a cost. Can we assume that once sales of the iPod have reached saturaration point that we will have to pay for upgrades to iTunes?)
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No, I would say by that point you'll need new hardware or a new OS. Mac OS 9 users have been without a new version of iTunes since 2.0.4. Why? So they'll buy Mac OS X (at least 10.1.5). And before that iTunes required 9.0.4. Why? SoundJam MP (which iTunes was based on) ran fine in 8.x. It was so that people would upgrade to Mac OS 9.

I hope that doesn't surprise you. Apple is in the business of making money. You stay up with Apple's hardware and software and you'll be just fine with iTunes.
 
RacerX said:
Fair enough.



I agree completely. As a consultant I have sold many of these systems over the years on that very basis.



I'm sorry, that is a completely untrue statement.

Absolutely - my mistake - I meant to comment on the lack of upgradability (sp?) of the software - not comment on whether or not it was included with a new computer.

iLife is still included with all Macs as far as I can see, though I don't see GarageBand included at this time. On the other hand, Apple does have an up to date program for people who are now buying systems. I believe $19.95 is the same price Apple has always charged for these types of updates (I remember 10.1 costing that much)



You shouldn't be explaining anything. Apple never said free for life. You get what you get and should be happy when you get more. You (nor the 5 you sold to) are entitled to anything beyond what you paid for. If it wasn't worth what it cost at the time, then they shouldn't have bought them.

Apple always provided / bundled these apps with computers - the updates were always free. It was not unreasonable to expect the updates to continue to be free. The fact that they now want to include GarageBand shouldn't affect iPhoto users IMHO.

I wouldn't buy a car expecting the maker to upgrade the car to something better later on. The fact that Apple does these things at all should be welcomed. Acting like you have rights to gifts is the quickest way to not get gifts any more.

Cars and software are not the same! The point I am trying to make is that Apple has recognised a flaw in their iPhoto software and has made moves to fix it. Why should we now view it as a "new" product?

The important aspect is that crawfordna isn't thankful for what he got and will always want more. Apple didn't used to bundle this much software with their systems. Today you can buy a Mac and no other software and be just fine. That is amazing. Sadly, crawfordna is just spoiled. Life is going to be hard for some one like that.

I don't think that crawfordna has said he's not thankful. It seems to me that he's just a bit peeved - I can understand his frustration (after all, he only just bought his PB!)

No, I would say by that point you'll need new hardware or a new OS. Mac OS 9 users have been without a new version of iTunes since 2.0.4. Why? So they'll buy Mac OS X (at least 10.1.5). And before that iTunes required 9.0.4. Why? SoundJam MP (which iTunes was based on) ran fine in 8.x. It was so that people would upgrade to Mac OS 9.

I think we're saying the same thing - just using different words!


I hope that doesn't surprise you. Apple is in the business of making money. You stay up with Apple's hardware and software and you'll be just fine with iTunes.
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Funnily enough, it doesn't surprise me! I DO expect Apple to make money. Last year I think I spent about $30,000 on Apple gear... No doubt some of it was profit for them (good! why? because profit = investment in R&D etc. = better kit for us)

However, taking an application like iPhoto from being a free upgrade to a paying one has suprised a lot of people, myself included. If you're happy with it, fair enough - but not everyone feels the same as you!

:)

PS - sorry I don't know how to edit your comments as well as you did mine - I'm afraid it's all mixed up!

ed
 
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