Leopard family pack: PowerPC and Intel?
- Thread starter Ynought
- Start date
jbarley
One more, for the road!
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
yup. no editions or versions, just leopard. one big fat disc covers you on all fronts.
.. and that looks like it will just be Universal as well. Oh, the joys for anyone living in a 56k only areas ...
If I have an Intel based Mac, I don't need any of the PPC code there. Just like I don't need traditional or modern Chinese, Russian, Polish, Korean, Norwegian... just leave me US English (and Italian and Japanese *only* for my testing purposes - would not need those for normal home use even).
Remove wrong processor code = 40-70 % space saved.
Remove wrong languages - this used to be e.g. for QuickTime or iMovie to shrink them from 80 MB to 30 MB ....
Making an US vs International updates available has been asked a number of times. Not going to happen as they don't want that. My guess is that the universal code will go to the same category - a user is just as likely to suddenly need a language they don't know for their Mac as they are to suddenly need the other processor code on that Mac.
Just wait for OS X Elephant. (Gray and bloated. XI .. with the overly iTunesque gui brushed out?)
If I have an Intel based Mac, I don't need any of the PPC code there. Just like I don't need traditional or modern Chinese, Russian, Polish, Korean, Norwegian... just leave me US English (and Italian and Japanese *only* for my testing purposes - would not need those for normal home use even).
Remove wrong processor code = 40-70 % space saved.
Remove wrong languages - this used to be e.g. for QuickTime or iMovie to shrink them from 80 MB to 30 MB ....
Making an US vs International updates available has been asked a number of times. Not going to happen as they don't want that. My guess is that the universal code will go to the same category - a user is just as likely to suddenly need a language they don't know for their Mac as they are to suddenly need the other processor code on that Mac.
Just wait for OS X Elephant. (Gray and bloated. XI .. with the overly iTunesque gui brushed out?)
Kees Buijs
Registered
Not every one in the us will use the english / us only version (spanish will be a good second). Also in general you can select what you want to install (requires advance selection) and normally gives you the chance to include / exclude what you do not want.
I guess apple is smart enough to install only what is needed, in older OS version this was standard.
Also who cares about 50mb if you got 100gb harddisks available.
It will be a lot cheaper for apple to make one dvd as several dvd's and also distribution is a lot more complex. In europe we have a lot of different languages, so a retailer who need a lot of sets available (and also a lot of equal systems with different os - like countries with 4 languages spoken).
So do an advance install and most of the rubbish is gone.
Good luck, Kees
I use XSlimmer to get rid of unneeded junk like PPC binaries. I'm not sure on Leopard compatibility yet.
Yes, of course. But that doesn't change that any update through software update will still be Universal and contain both PPC and intel code. Plus all the languages. Of course it then actually _won't_ install most of the languages, but it'll still install both architectures. Or worse: It might not necessarily recognise the app you've slimmed down anymore and not update it at all? (Not sure with that, haven't actually used any deFATters.)
Either way: Apple certainly has a good system in place with their bundles and packages. There's still some way to go, though. You should be able to go about it this way, from a user-perspective:
1.) At install time, select whether you want to install "Universal" or "required architecture only".
2.) At install time, select what languages you want installed. (This is already in place.)
3.) Software Update should automagically only download updaters for your system, i.e. if you've got an intel-only, German-only system, it should download and install only intel-only, German-only updates. For the system, security updates *AND* application updates, btw.!
Giaguara: English (US)-only as an option would be _very_ inconsiderate. Towards German, French, Spanish, Chinese, English people etc., etc. ...
Either way: Apple certainly has a good system in place with their bundles and packages. There's still some way to go, though. You should be able to go about it this way, from a user-perspective:
1.) At install time, select whether you want to install "Universal" or "required architecture only".
2.) At install time, select what languages you want installed. (This is already in place.)
3.) Software Update should automagically only download updaters for your system, i.e. if you've got an intel-only, German-only system, it should download and install only intel-only, German-only updates. For the system, security updates *AND* application updates, btw.!
Giaguara: English (US)-only as an option would be _very_ inconsiderate. Towards German, French, Spanish, Chinese, English people etc., etc. ...
No matter what languages you select at installation time, or what you strip your system to later, Mac OS X updates ALWAYS will install every single language pack to your system. So if you had English, German and French installed, it will install all languages (from Finnish to Korean and Polish to modern Chinese and so on, now close to 20 languages). This is the same ALSO when you select to install your system ONLY in English.
"English only" vs International isn't as delicate as would be nice to have, but as for all the requests since pre-10.0 public the replies have been more or less politically correct "not going to happen", at least it would be a bit more option than the current no option at all.
Who care of the 50 MB?? Well. It's not that you save 50 MB stripping off the languages you don't need - when I did this -- I had only OS X installed in English + Italian + Japanese packs, system updates since that to I think 10.4.7 at the time, and a few applications not including Apple's pro apps yet (at least didn't have the monster sized Final Cut Studio taking 60 GB of my laptop hard drive size) - the space saved was over 2 GB. That with most iLife applications removed as unused before stripping....
The annoyance is that when I select only the languages I want to install, any time doing an OS X update so going to 10.5.1 and then 10.5.2 and so on, all the undesired language packs will be added again. All of those 15-20 languages.
On laptops, application size matters... unless I find a way to implement VDM on OS X + Server side and make that work with audio + video editing (and if I do find a way to do that, I'll be rich).
Believe me, I've done custom and stripped down installation on every OS X install for my own use, and have wanted to do that on 80 % of the other installations of OS X that I've done (at the best or worst, 50 OS X system installs a week).
Japanese is the second language for the market and numbers, French and German followed after that. Spanish isn't in tier 0 languages group, but followed after them in the next group.
It's not that hard to just run XSlimmer again after an update, and yes SU still works with the binary parts you don't need removed. I agree, they should make this better and only install what you need but I think they have an attitude of, hard drives are so big, who cares. But I certainly do and many other people do.
I saved about 800+ MB using XSlimmer last time I did it. Depending on the application, sometimes the other languages are just .strings files which are just text files and don't take up much room at all.
I saved about 800+ MB using XSlimmer last time I did it. Depending on the application, sometimes the other languages are just .strings files which are just text files and don't take up much room at all.
Or Delocalizer, or a few of the other applications out there.
Or just scripting even with just Terminal ... (I think I'll do way harsher and more custom delocalization and deprocessorcode removals with AppleScript with 10.5). Or maybe make an addition to add the delocalization scripts to run every time you do update_prebinding, that way after each updated it will automatically remove what you want ...
Or just scripting even with just Terminal ... (I think I'll do way harsher and more custom delocalization and deprocessorcode removals with AppleScript with 10.5). Or maybe make an addition to add the delocalization scripts to run every time you do update_prebinding, that way after each updated it will automatically remove what you want ...
Mikuro
Crotchety UI Nitpicker
Is there any hard evidence (e.g., from the developer previews) of all these universal issues? Currently software updates are available in Intel and PPC versions. We don't know Apple will change that.
Do we know the system itself will actually be universal? That seems absurd, since from what I've heard you can't possibly boot PPC and Intel Macs from the same volume anyway because they require different partition maps. Is it simply because Apple is too lazy to add a little intelligence to the installer?
True, Apple's been pretty dumb in this regard historically, with localizations and universal applications. That's not proof of how Leopard will work, though.
Do we know the system itself will actually be universal? That seems absurd, since from what I've heard you can't possibly boot PPC and Intel Macs from the same volume anyway because they require different partition maps. Is it simply because Apple is too lazy to add a little intelligence to the installer?
True, Apple's been pretty dumb in this regard historically, with localizations and universal applications. That's not proof of how Leopard will work, though.
There's still extreme laziness. I can tell you more in a few days but it's basically the same as with Tiger.
Mikuro
Crotchety UI Nitpicker
But that only proves the installer will install on either PPC or Intel. It doesn't prove that the actual installed systems will be universal, or that they will include both 32-bit and 64-bit binaries. That's what I'm really wondering.
It also proves that you can make a disc boot both PPC and Intel Macs. That's cool. Still, I wonder if even the installer's system is universal, or if it simply has two separate systems (perhaps on two different partitions).
Oh well. Just two days to know for sure.
Kees Buijs
Registered
Are you talking worldwide or US only. I wanted to make clear that even for 1 country, a single version (language) is normally not enough. You can not expect to have a shop having 10 versions of the same program (only different languages) on stock.
Just wait and see, maybe has made improvements on the release DVD. This site will be full of it in a couple of days i guess. 10.4 works for me and i stick to it for quite some time.
Good luck with 10.5, Kees
