longhorn

jonmichael23

jonmichael23

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What are your thoughts of it? It doesnt look that great to me......of the cool new features we all already have them in panther. And by late 2005/2006 well have 10.4.x or maybe even 10.5 and will already be way ahead of longhorn.....even though 10.2.x will still be ahead of it :p lol. Transparency in windows? wow like we dont have that already. And the sidebar thing is a rip of the sidebar thing in MSN 8....its the same almost. Anyways, anyone know where to find the PDC 2003 keynote? I wanted to watch about longhorn,see how much has been copied, but I can't seem to find the video anywhere. Thanks!

Jon
 
jonmichael23 said:
. And the sidebar thing is a rip of the sidebar thing in MSN 8....its the same almost. Jon
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LOL, i don't think its a 'rip' when the MSN Software was developed by M$ as well! :p

I think it's looking nice, hopefully it'll at least become as pleasing on the eye, as OS X. I find Windows to seem very dated and horrible when i HAVE To use it! :(
 
Mate Longhorn is a lot more than transparent windows! LOL

The new graphics engine and file system called WinFS for a start! Nearly everything has changed and is now written in .Net using managed source code practices.

I believe Longhorn is going to be something special and that you really should start looking at the important things like GFX,FS and security and not things like OOhh it has a transparent window option!! LOL

This is such an early Beta we have no idea what the UI will be yet!
 
Well, even though it will be a long time before the system is released, I think Microsoft is trying to approach this project slightly different than before. Usually, Microsoft releases a program and 2-3 Service Packs later, the software is more stable and actually usuable. This time, Microsoft is trying to get it right the first time(at least I hope they are). Security, graphics, etc. Albeit, they will still be about 4 years behind Apple.
 
I dont see how you can say they are even behind Apple let alone 4 years. Apples security has been shown to be such a joke recently. If Apple had as many people trying to exploit it as MS does, we would all see they have just as many holes if not more than MS.

Apples security is based on obscurity im afraid.
 
OK reading that again maybe i sounded a bit harsh there, the above post isnt meant in that way at all. Thats just one of the probs with communicating via forums im afraid.
 
I'm genuinely interested to see what the competition has to offer, so I'm intrigued by plans for Longhorn (though occasionally a bit tired of some of the more blatant rip offs). I have to admit that some of the SuperSite's review had me almost laugh out loud, but maybe it's just me... Here were some of the comments I found a little odd:

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_4051_04_ue.asp

1)"In sharp contrast to competitors such as Apple Computer and the various open source groups working on Linux, Microsoft has worked for years to really think through the whole user experience in Windows..."


2) "Compare this to Mac OS X, an operating system Apple has been trying to get off the ground for several years. Because it was based on entirely incompatible technologies to its previous OS products, Apple needed time to bring that OS up to speed with Windows..."


3) "In late 2003, Apple released Mac OS X 10.3 ("Panther"), the fourth OS X version and arguably the first that's suitable for mainstream use."
(IMHO, 10.2 definitely did that, though even 10.1 could also said to have reached that status)


4) "But there's absolutely no user experience in OS X."
(?)


5) "It's this attention to detail that makes XP a solution for the masses, while Mac OS X is very much for the technical elite."
(...and I'm used to being bashed because Macs are "computers for dummies" in many PC users' eyes!)


Anyway, I digress! I'm not meaning to move this thread away from Longhorn! The new file system sounds intriguing, but I'm not very clear on what .Net actually is. Some of the (p)review at winsupersite seemed a little "vague" to me. Has anyone got a summary of the main improvements or had a chance to see the developer's builds directly?
 
FrgMstr said:
I dont see how you can say they are even behind Apple let alone 4 years. Apples security has been shown to be such a joke recently. If Apple had as many people trying to exploit it as MS does, we would all see they have just as many holes if not more than MS.

Apples security is based on obscurity im afraid.
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Hi FrgMstr,

I know OS X's security is not perfect, but I believe a security group determined that OS X and FreeBSD were amongst the least hacked operating systems during a given year (recently). They claimed that the proportion of hacks was less than the percentage market share, and so stated that it was not a case of "security through obscurity." Hmmm, I wish I had the URL to hand... This might have been it (but I can't remember :D):

http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frameset.php?pageid=http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/press/311002.php

http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frames...m/cgi/mi2g/reports/intelligence_briefings.php
 
bbloke said:
The new file system sounds intriguing, but I'm not very clear on what .Net actually is. Some of the (p)review at winsupersite seemed a little "vague" to me. Has anyone got a summary of the main improvements or had a chance to see the developer's builds directly?
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.NET is actually very cool. It's a completely object oriented programming framwork with managed memory. (Similar to Cocoa in a lot of ways, though I like the structure of VB.NET or C# over Cocoa. Other langauges can use the framework too, such as ASP.NET, C++, COBOL!, Perl, and others...)

The only problem I have with .NET is the name... MS is applying it to everything and it doesn't really mean anything. I'm surprised Longhorn isn't Windows .NET... but maybe it will be in the end.

For programmers this is good because it will be integrated into the OS, no more DLL issues, and it will be easier to embrace because currently end users have to have the .NET framework, either 1.0 or 1.1 installed on their machine to run the programs made with a .NET language. For non-programmers, it's supposedly going to put an end to "DLL-hell" and lead to a much more stable OS. Though I'm sure they'll find someway to screw it up. And besides, that will only apply to .NET apps... what about all the currrent DLL-based C,C++,VB apps in existance?
 
.NET is no more secure than regular Win32. There have already been a bunch of .NET security updates and it's only on version 1.1.

So what if the application doesn't have as many security issues, the layer on which the application runs still does.

There have been way more security updates for windows in the last few months than there has for OS X in the last year.

Longhorn is basically, let windows manage every application and control how the code executes. Which is great in a way if you want to control viruses etc. But this completely slows down the machine. Longhorn requires 1GB of ram! :O
 
I don't think it's unfair to say that Microsoft are in all kinds of problems with Loghorn.

They had to freeze their feature set some time during 10.2's tenure. So -- as was stated earlier in this thread, and in a couple of threads I've posted on before now -- Longhorn will be some way behind OS X by the time it ships.

Bill Gates described the situation with the vanishing dot on the horizon that is the launch date for Longhorn that it's a 'bet the farm' proposition that they simply cannot afford to get wrong.

And let's not forget that Microsoft are being forced into something they've never had to do before now; compete on quality. Must be a strange one, that?

Linux and OS X are showing how poor Microsoft Windows really is. If you go to O'Reily's web site there's been a few blogs on the non-existent security model Windows employs.

So let's put this perspective: the security flaws in OS X are usually small fry compared to the casms that Windows has been rattling out three-apeice every month. In fact, the last one; which was a DHCP problem was actually a flaw with the standard and not Apple's implementation.

Unfortunately, if you go to eWeek you'll see that a lot of IT people are willing to wait until sometime late 2007 for when Longhorn is due to ship.
 
But there's absolutely no user experience in OS X. Instead, Apple's OS provides just a classic graphical user interface, with no friendly utilities or tools to guide you through various processes. It's a desktop OS, plain and simple, and no amount of graphics technology can change that simple truth. You pretty much have to know what you're doing to use OS X. Otherwise, you'll just find yourself endlessly mousing around. To a beginner, it's almost as unfriendly as a command prompt.
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I vehemently beg to differ.

For one thing, there's plenty of user experience with OS X. If there doesn't appear to be, that means the OS is doing its job well: providing you with the capability to do what you need quickly and efficiently. Windows always seems to get in the way with its "helpers" and "guides."

For another, I helped a member of my synogogue (a man in his 80's) upgrade to Panther, and he has had no problems so far. He's had a couple issues, like getting his scanner to work, but it works fine in Classic, and he hasn't had a problem adapting to the new look, and he loves the much-more-obvious-than-OS-9 zoom feature.

Sometimes it's hard to tell if someone really prefers something or if they're just writing out of journalistic bias.
 
LOL, I can't believe some people actually like those obtrusive wizards and how XP hides your icons if you don't use them, hides things in menus if you don't use them, etc.

Also it constantly moves things around in the menu so you can't always find the programs in the same place all the time. How is that supposed to be easier?

Longhorn seems like it will be even more of this. Less screen space available, more RAM to run, more HD space to install, better graphics card to make it work.

OS X is somewhat the same with regards to needing more RAM, but there was way more involved than there is from XP to Longhorn.
 
I think what we have is a bunch of people who know that Apple and OS X has now surpassed Windows in terms of technical prowess.

It really was never an argument with regards to the GUI and any fool knows this with the notable exception of the author of that sad and misguided missive.

So, like Microsoft, they resort to FUDing everyone blind in a miasma of misinformation and down right lies.

In short, Windows enthusiasts are on the run...
 
Captain Code said:
OS X is somewhat the same with regards to needing more RAM, but there was way more involved than there is from XP to Longhorn.
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How can you *possibly* say that about an OS that is still 2+ years from being released?
 
Ripcord said:
How can you *possibly* say that about an OS that is still 2+ years from being released?
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Because all Longhorn is is just building ontop of XP. OS X was a completely new environment.

Longhorn just builds layers ontop of what they already have to try and make it more secure.
 
I never really minded XP... and I'm sure I'll feel the same about Longhorn... but the love for one's OS X machine is unrivalled... aaahhh.

I'm pretty sure there'll be features that are worth 'porting' over to OS X (albeit better... 'Fast User Switching' etc.) ;)
 
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