.mac backup?

J

J5

certified wanker
Hey all -
got an email last night promoting the new backup feature of .mac. I have no interest at all in .mac, but there was something in there that really rubbed me the wrong way.

As a trial member, you can use Backup to save files to iDisk. With a full .Mac membership, you'll also be able to back up files to CDs or DVDs — perfect for storing lots of large files, like your iPhoto library.
Click to expand...

Ummm... ok... wtf? So wait... is Apple going to hook up 10 million cd burners on their servers for me(us), and then everytime I "backup" they will mail the cd's to us?

Of course not. This is by far the lamest thing I've heard from Apple (lately). I spend +$2000 on a mac with a cdr/dvdr and I have to pay a monthly fee to burn cd's?(I know, just burn like I have been) The big deal with backup as far as I can see is that it simply checks modification dates, and automatically backs up what has changed. Seems a trivial app to write, though I've just gotten into cocoa development. If anyone is interested in helping out, I think we could get our own open-source version of something like this?

Another rant - I buy the mac, I pay X a month, I buy the blank media, I sit and wait for it to burn, I put it in it's case and label it... What exactly would I be paying the monthly fee for at that point? I'm not about to start renting software. That's just a load of bs... errr ms.

J5

If anyone is interested and has some cocoa/mac programming experience, I'd be all for working up some open-source apps to compete with .whack. Ie - we could sit here and whine, or we could simply get off our arses and do something about it. Fighting Apple to get this stuff for free isn't going to happen, but they gave us all the dev tools we need already. So what's stopping us outside of lack of motivation?
 
Originally posted by J5
Hey all -
got an email last night promoting the new backup feature of .mac. I have no interest at all in .mac, but there was something in there that really rubbed me the wrong way.
Click to expand...

*shrugs his shoulders* Egh....no big deal about .mcProfit for me....just another email account to check. :D

I can't use the backup feature, until I upgrade to X.2.....but with a superdrive, I can do it locally, without incurring a charge, as my dsl provider has put bandwidth caps on.....grrr! :mad:

It's nice.....but no biggie for me.....I'll just humbly use the account....hehe
 
Not quite sure what you mean -

*shrugs his shoulders* Egh....no big deal about .mcProfit for me....just another email account to check.
Click to expand...

That's exactly how I see it, and it's an email account I can do without. My point was that backup sounds like a simple piece of software to write. It just doesn't seem worth $99 a year to me.

The backup software though to me seems like a good piece of software to have, yet after how many years of payment does it become not worth it?

So as I see it, we (maybe just me?) have 3 options:

1) whine about it - not doing anybody any good

2) Suck it up, and pay the fees. - in the words of G. Bush the first - "not gonna do it.."

3) Suck it up, and write software on our own that does the same thing, and give it away for free.

I'm going with number 3! I want to learn Cocoa anyway. I've been playing with it a bit, but haven't thought of a piece of software I'd want to write to hone my skills. Seems like this would be a fun and useful app to get started on.

J5
 
I am wondering what Apple is really up to with all these weird offerings... are they that strapped for cash?

The whole email quoted does not make sense at all... backup? Huh?
 
Hey Plastic -
Here's a link for ya'

http://www.mac.com/1/iTour/tour_backup.html

And good point - are they that strapped for cash!? It's so weird. Everytime they release something cool (jaguar, and all it's goodness) - I get all happy. Then there is always something that turns me right around. Not that I'm about to "switch" mind you, but none the less... it's the epitomy of a "love/hate" relationship!

Check out the link. .whack indeed.

J5
 
I tried reading the ad right side up, on my side, tilted my head to both sides, while lying down, and STILL, I don't see the reason why I must part with THAT MUCH money to get that account.

Drag and drop and click and burn... Apple style. What is so hard about that? I have backed up almost every small file (project files) onto CD blanks and larger files onto Firewire HDD/ DVD-R. Why would I spend $99/year for this?

Maybe I am slow, but can someone explain this service to me like a four year old? I don't see the logic in this altogether.

Maybe Apple has a reason but I sure don't see it now.
 
It's a very good idea to make a simple, free Backup utility as a competitor to Apple's Backup.
Why? Because 1, a backup program is the most basic of utilities every OS should include, and 2, I, along with many other Mac users, am especially annoyed by Apple's recent changes in business policy*: writing a free backup program that is a viable replacement to their $99 version tells Apple that we won't follow their business plan if it's not in our best interest. People simply will not pay for what they can get elsewhere for free, even if it comes from Apple. I have a strong feeling that most Mac users' brand loyalty is simply not strong enough to resist price differences such as one of .Macs magnitude, and this is where a lot of the anger over .Mac stems from. People don't want to move away from Apple, but .Mac is a real slap in the face from our friendly old Apple of pre-July 17th.
But I digress...

A utility like this would be incentive for Apple to make .Mac actually worth $99 by adding more features or substantially improving the old ones. Apple is typically the leader in innovation, but things like their lack of OS-installed backup utility truly are a sore spot. Windows 95 and every version after came with some version of a free, MS supported, backup program, (maybe it started with Win3.1, I'm not sure) as a system accessory. It's inexcusable that Apple markets OS X as such an advanced OS but doesn't include such a simple feature that facilitates such an important task. (I'm not much of a UNIX person but I suspect there is some kind of CLI way of backing up...so maybe Apple does indirectly include one, but of course it is not accessible to most OS X users, because they don't know how to CLI their way around) Frankly speaking, their $99 version is too little, too late when looking at the competition, which is exactly what Switchers are doing.

Anyway, I've rambled on for long enough...
If you (J5) did something like this, I would be happy to help out as long as a replacement was freeware (or opensourced, whatever). The least we could do is give a GUI to the UNIX backup program (if one exists that is), hopefully however we could do all that Apple's Backup does and more - Apple's version is very simple so it wouldn't be that difficult to do. Heck, we could even backup to an iDisk, it's not a propietary system!

*One example of Apple's new moves: You need an active internet connection just to run Backup, even though you may just want to burn a CD on the go in a laptop :eek: ! that is particulary offensive IMHO, very much like MS...
 
Plastic -
I couldn't explain it to myself, let alone a 4yr. old. It literally makes no sense at all. At first, I was thinking:

"Oh.. cool. I'm gonna back up my 30gig drive tonight to my idisk...so that I can reformat and do a clean install without using up a ton of cd's..."

That's what drove me to the site, to see if there was a limit to how much space I had. Of course there was. But even if I had a full membership, 200mb isn't going to cut it for backup purposes. I've got at least 5gigs of files I'd have to backup, and that doesn't include software.

Yep.. you said it. drag.drop. burn. That's it. The only thing I can see that Apple is giving you for your annual fee is a nice piece of software to optimize your backups. Meaning it keeps a record of what you backed up last time. Then, next time you backup, it compares each file's modification date to the list of previously backed up files, and backs up only the stuff that has changed. Great idea! But not at that price. Maybe if it was an addon for like $200 or something...maybe. I don't know if I'd pay that still, but if Apple's hardup for cash, all they gotta do is ask! Don't try to take advantage of people who don't know any better! Release a 1.25ghz dp g4 with a useable amount of ram(at least 512mb!, on ONE chip) for under $2000. I'll buy 2! That's equal to 40 years of .mac membership. Of course, minus their costs, it's not quite so much, but it's more money (100% more) than they'll see from me by way of .mac services.


Again - are there any mac developers here who want to help a newbie learn a bit, and at the same time produce some cool mac free-wares? You can find me for a limited time at:
jrobinso@mac.com
or a more permanent location:
jrobinso@nycap.rr.com

J5
 
Snowball -
I hadn't seen your post before my last one. Drop me an email and we can get started. It will definitely be open-source and free to all. That's the whole point, that and the points you mention about showing Apple a little "tough love".

J5
 
200MB is awfully small today in the computing world. After converting my CD collection into mp3 in iTunes, that have already taken up 18GB on my HDD. What can 200MB do? Online floppy making services? OK, now I am trying to be a cheey bastid here... :D
 
hint - we have a whole forum for programming here. it's where the programmers hang out. you might try posting your request for help there. ;)
 
Originally posted by reichmac

**Ed's note - i'm sure you all would like to read the deleted post but i was asked by another site member to remove the offensive material. since the user's new nick contained offensive language, along with most of the post, i thought best to delete it. i can only tell you that it was a series of not so creative name calling towards me for attempting to point out that we have a programming forum to help with this kind of problem. ip comparison has confirmed that this was reichman who was just banned for posting 'troubleshooting advice' to use the unix command to wipe the drive as a way to clean up the volume structures. **
Click to expand...


You know what? It's these kind of posts that really get me riled up - they serve absolutely no constructive purpose. I bet the person who wrote this (probably azosx or pezagent getting his "revenge") is laughing it up right now, thinking he/she is on top of the world. Ed, I hope you see through this bastar*'s worthless posts and realize that you're doing a great job moderating these boards. I for one am thankful that someone of your caliber is here at all, much less modding the boards - for free, in your personal time! You are always there to keep conversations in line, keep macosx.com legal, help out others - like in this case - as I said, clearly a great mod. You have an excellent sense of ethics I admire, and do a damn good job here.

It's really too bad unfortunate misfits such as BDF (i'll abbreviate your ridiculous name; another sign of your immaturity and stupidity) won't ever get anywhere in life with their stupidity and feel the need to take it out online.

What the hell is wrong with you BDF? Ed is a great mod and your worthless posts don't change that or convince anyone. You fail to make a valid argument against Ed. He spends a lot of his personal time moderating here and does a good job of it. I have a feeling you are pezagent or azosx, and it will be easy to find out by looking up your IP address, don't worry. We will find easily find out who you are, and can even find out your home address if we want. The "anonymity" of the net isn't as safe as you think you think. I suggest you go outside and focus your anger onto doing something real with your life.
 
God this whole thread should be deleted.

$99 isn't worth the backup program??? Damn straight! but that's not really what your paying for is it. Sure, it's fair to argue that all the services you get in .mac aren't worth $99 dollars, but at least be truthful and don't pretend your paying $99 for a small utility that apple provides with .mac. $99 is a good price for everything they are providing, if you compare it with similar services by other companies.

Okay as for this CDR/DVDR backup feature. I have been reading the backup forums over at apple since it's been released. Being able to backup to multiply CDRs has been the most requested feature by a long shot. I don't see much value in it, but that's what the puntas asked for and that's what apple has delivered in backup x.2. So why not mention it in their news letter?

And I'm not even going to comment on that post about Ed, except to say don't take any notice Ed.
 
gosh, and i just thought i was being helpful pointing out that we have a programming forum where the guys who are into this kind of thing tend to spend most of their time. I guess next time i feel helpful i should just keep it to myself. :rolleyes:

thanks for the support and kind words snowball and aisha. i will leave this post as a good example of what not to do. Admin will have the account removed soon - both of them most likely. changing your nickname here does not change your ip log. people should be aware of this.

carry on.
 
Ed,

I hope that guy doesn't have you second guessing yourself. He's a nut. My guess is that it's squidbite. I'm glad you're on the board keeping things clean. You could consider reporting him to his ISP.

Also, what's going on with his handle. Wouldn't SDF be more insulting? Clearly he needs a lesson or two in trash talking. :)

Vanguard

PS I'd like to see the thread cleaned up. It's not that I'm afraid of what squidbite might think., It's that as a parent I wouldn't want an 8 year old to run across that kind of hatred and language.
 
point well taken vanguard. i have now deleted the post and edited it out with explanation in snowball's quote. i hope this is an acceptable way to have dealt with this for all who have been witness to it.

and thanks for the additional support vanguard. :)
 
Ed - I commend you as well, although I didn't get a chance to see the post in question, nor do I care. If people want to talk trash, it doesn't bother me at all. As for cleaning it up for the kids, that's understandable.

Okay as for this CDR/DVDR backup feature. I have been reading the backup forums over at apple since it's been released. Being able to backup to multiply CDRs has been the most requested feature by a long shot. I don't see much value in it, but that's what the puntas asked for and that's what apple has delivered in backup x.2. So why not mention it in their news letter?
Click to expand...
I have no problem with them mentioning it in their newsletter. They need to make money just as I need to make money. My point is that they are already making money. And at the same time, taking advantage of people who don't know their mac from a hole in the earth.

It really irks me though, to see a company that I've been loyal to since day one try to get a few more bucks off me for something like this. Backing up only what has to be, or what has changed since last time is a feature I remember being in Retrospect for a few versions now. I was stoked at first, and then appalled(sp?) to see it offered as a part of .mac vs an app included right next to itunes and mail.

I've tried to explain this, but it never comes out like I feel it:

Apple has sold countless computers to the professionals in the graphic design, audio production, multimedia and film industry for years. We all know what we trust, and that is Apple and their machines. It makes me sick to see them try to sell to consumers as an alternative to the pc, while dumbing down the interface to suit those needs, while it means slower production for the folks who've been loyal for so many years. Granted, the underlying os is more powerful than anything they've ever offered.

I remember the day, as a graphic designer, when the first sherlock was introduced. I was on a 1X0mhz powermac, and I could no longer just press cmd-f, start typing, hit enter, and have it display results. Time is money in these businesses. I haven't been able to do that for years. I commend Apple for bringing this back in X.2.

Hmmm.. I'm not sure if this is on topic or not.. Ed - it seems like there is one or more people out to give you a hard time on here. I've only been active here for a few days, but look at my registration date. I've been here for a few years. I remember a time when mac users were all about hacking things together to get them to work. Oh boy... am I rambling or what!

Ok. I still don't think it's come across as it feels, but that's my best shot so far. We will build our own backup software, and it will be as good or if not better than Apples offerings. As I've said before - Apple makes a machine I love and trust, but as far as business/marketing tactics, I'm left unimpressed.

J5
 
J5 - thanks. not to interrupt your topic anymore than already has been, but the people who want to give me a hard time are the ones who think this site should have no rules and just be a free for all with lots of warez trading, cussing, flaming, etc. (sounds like an online version of usenet :p ) unfortunately keeping the site from becoming that is a moderator's job. and when we do our jobs, certain people feel like victims and we become targets. The shame is that serious users end up being subjected to it.

somehow this person decided to attack me for suggesting to you that you post in the programmers forum for help with this project. discussing the pros and cons is good in this forum, but you'll find more programmers and knowledge for getting it going in the other forum. that was all i was trying to say. i was trying to be concise and not 'ramble' like i normally do.

it sounds like a worthy project to me. i am split on how i feel about .mac but will probably pay the $49 for the first year and see how that goes. the second year might end up being $10 for all we know at this point. but i also think that good alternatives are something the community should be working on. i know lots of sites like this one have been picking up the email slack. why shouldn't someone like you and/or others get the ball rolling on a backup alternative? i wish you luck and would love to see your program up on versiontracker someday.

ok, everybody go back to discussing backup apps and .mac.

please. :)
 
Yeah, I guess they should really include a backup program free as part of the OS.

But to tell the truth, I have the current Backup program and it aint all that good as a backup program :p It's more there just to let you automatically put stuff on your iDisk.

I've forked over $49 for the first year of .mac. But I think to win my $99 next year, they'll have to introduce some new stuff.

Spymac is running a story that a coming .mac feature will be domain name to dynamic IP mapping.

So if your like most people out there, your ISP dynamically assigns you an IP that changes everytime you login. Problem with this is that even though your computer is on the internet it's hard to access it externally, since you have to have rememered the IP that your ISP gave you that morning.

So the rumored feature would have something like http://www.mac.com/myname/ always pointing to your computer. That URL would be kept in sync with what ever IP you had everytime you did an internet connect.

But this was from spymac and I don't believe anything they say :rolleyes: :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top