MacOS X.4 User Interface Idea

As someone else said, resource use. Why bog down your file-manager with the code to view a webpage, when you might not want to view any webpages at all. Or what if you dont want to use the Apple browser? As for the "load an ftp connection like connect to server", I'd prefer if this respected the system wide ftp client (finder by default, use something like MoreInternet to change it)
 
what I would REALLY love to see is the contextual menu item to Arrange>by Name, Date Modified, Date Created, Size, Kind, and Label back like it was in OS 9, and so we dont have to go up the the menu bar, and go to View>Arrange> .......

see attached...if you still dont get what i mean, i want besically the whole view menu as a context. menu item.
 

Attachments

  • arrange.jpg
    arrange.jpg
    34.2 KB · Views: 40
oh dear. What needs to be changed in th Finder before anything else is the chaotic way it handles windows. Ever since the launch of OS X the Finder has been bad and it hasn't really fundamentally been improved - it's still a mix between a file browser and the old type of spatial Finder. It's frustrating to have new windows appearing when you don't expect them to, or different folders looking different while browsing them. In a file browser, if you choose to use eg. "icon view" it should stay that way all the time. Apple should clearly separate the spatial Finder from the browser Finder, simply by changing the "New Window" in the File menu to "New Browser". Normal double-clicking in the Finder would result in OS 9 -style windows. A very comprehensive critique by John Siracusa on the Finder can be found at ArsTechnica and is worth reading:

http://arstechnica.com/paedia/f/finder/finder-1.html

the article was written before Panther, but as can be read from a Panther Review by the same author, nothing has really changed in the Panther Finder - they just added shortcuts and made it brushed metal.
 
The Finder should not be a web browser for the same reasons Safari should not be a music manager and iTunes should not be an image editor and Photoshop should not be a text editor. :)

Celeborn: that article should be read by every Mac user -- nay, computer user -- in the world. Thank you very much for pointing it out.
 
That was a really good article, and it goes along the lines of what I've always thought about the OS X Finder. Despite the improvements OS X has over OS 9, I still like using OS 9 because it is speedy and it works like it feels like it should. OS X creates windows as if they were browser windows, as the article said, and while that works well for a web page (it's easy to open the same page in multiple browsers), it's annoying in OS X.

Another thing that bugs me is file selection. As it is, you can select files in any open window, including the desktop, and they will stay selected. This can have its advantages, but more often than not I want just one item selected. If it allowed you to move files from multiple folders simultaneously, then I would retract this whole paragraph; but as it is, my statements stand as my opinion.
 
From phatacactus:

"The Finder should not be a web browser for the same reasons Safari should not be a music manager and iTunes should not be an image editor and Photoshop should not be a text editor."

I considered the same, but there's a key difference—we're not talking about having the Finder being some kind of development tool for manipulating files, bitmaps, song lists or otherwise. It's JUST A WINDOW.

At the outset, not one single thing needs to change in functionality in the Finder from the user end. Simply make the Search field URL-friendly so when you type www.apple.com the Finder window is replaced with web content. Again, it's just a portal, not a dev tool.

I don't see people talking about removing iDisk access from the Finder. Cuz after all, we really should be using a separate FTP program right? ;) And while we're at it, let's remove network access, cuz we should use some special Samba-access tool or OS 9's God-awful Chooser. ;)

I understand eeryone's points, I really do, I just think that in the end, done properly, Finder-based web access can make a lot of sense, be very convenient and open up interface efficiency oppurtunities we have not yet considered. Here's one that just came to me. Imagine having a client's development folder in the Finder (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator dev files) and you click on another folder or file in the Finder, and boom, you're at their website (the one you created using those dev files). It's a small example that wouldn't matter to most people, but I do that sort of thing all the time and it would be nice to have it right there in the Finder.

Now if adding web browsing to the Finder somehow cripples or slows down the Finder, then obviously, I dont' want it. But that's just speculation. I would think Apple could get that done very well. They do it well in Safari and Mail.
 
At the outset, not one single thing needs to change in functionality in the Finder from the user end. Simply make the Search field URL-friendly so when you type www.apple.com the Finder window is replaced with web content. Again, it's just a portal, not a dev tool.
Click to expand...
The search field is not a place to enter urls; it's a place to enter search terms. :) An address field, however, is a good idea, even without web access. Since the OS X Finder is essentially a file system browser, a path to the current directory would be a logical part of the window. I think command-clicking the title is as close as we've got right now.

I don't see people talking about removing iDisk access from the Finder. Cuz after all, we really should be using a separate FTP program right? And while we're at it, let's remove network access, cuz we should use some special Samba-access tool or OS 9's God-awful Chooser.
Click to expand...
In fact, I don't think we should be using separate FTP clients at all, even for FTP. :D Browsing an FTP server is just like browsing a local file system, and that's what the Finder is for. I've never used an iDisk, but I assume it's the same concept.

Imagine having a client's development folder in the Finder (Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator dev files) and you click on another folder or file in the Finder, and boom, you're at their website (the one you created using those dev files). It's a small example that wouldn't matter to most people, but I do that sort of thing all the time and it would be nice to have it right there in the Finder.
Click to expand...
That's possible now. Just create a .webloc file by dragging the URL from a text field, most likely your browser's address field, the same way you'd make a text clipping. Opening that file will open its URL (in your web browser, of course.) The same can be done for FTP and Email.
 
How 'bout, with this nifty text field, being able to browse volumes with Finder windows (like deleting "Pictures/" might bring you up one level to your "Users/" folder. Internet Explorer has this feature (Safari doesn't.) I could see this as being a part of the Finder window.

But if it begins with http:// or some other web-url prefix, it'll open up a new page in your default web browser to that address.
 
Either way, the Finder needs to return to 1:1 object navigation, as the Ars Technica described it, whereby a folder may only display its contents in one location, either via a disclosure triangle in a parent folder or in its own window. Until that happens, everything else can wait IMO.
 
If the Finder returns to 1:1 object navigation, then the address field feature we've described here would simply break it. :) I'm sadly confident that it will not happen, however, as 10.3 seems to have moved even further away from the classic Finder model.
 
cockneygeezer said:
Dear All,

I probably get flamed to bits for this, or even worst, get banned from this website, but I want to test peoples opinion on the following.

As we all know, Microsoft has ripped off the Mac interface for years. Yes, I know that Apple copied Xerox etc etc. But, why can't Apple rip off Windows XP? I know we do in some respect...

The reason that I ask is in conjunction with the new Aqua Finder in Panther 10.3. Steve Jobs claims that the new Finder Folder Panel is based upon iTunes playlists. Come on Steve, we not that stupid. We know that you are a couple of steps away from an Interface like Windows. But is this a bad thing?

I work with both Windows and Macintosh in my work environment and I like the idea that you can quickly type in an web address into the environment window, instead web browser.

To illustrate what the hell I am on about, I have made up a mock Finder window, which I think would be a great addition to MacOS X.4. We already have an input field box in our Finder window, why can't we put an Internet address in there as well and surf to that page?

Some people might argue that this might be an unfair advantage to other web browsers on the Mac blah blah blah. I ask you, how many of us really use anything about from Safari? 5%? (see past posts for results)

Personally, I would welcome this methodology to the Mac, what about you?

Discuss...

PS: I would do a Poll, but I can't seem to find it? It seems we can't do them anymore :(
Click to expand...
Don't ask how I know (cause I won't tell ya), but it IS being worked on. Safari is more than just a web browser! ;)
 
Well, WebKit is out there. Anyone can write a system-addon that takes care of it. PathFinder could add webbrowsing functions, if they wanted that... And of course Apple could implement it into Finder - no problem... Unless: From a UI standpoint, it maybe doesn't make _that_ much sense... Also: Would 'home' take you to your home folder or homepage? ;-)
 
I think it could be done in an easy way:

if address typed into finder starts with http://, just open safari and attempt to go to page.

What would be more useful is having an HTML preview of HTML pages in the preview window of the finder!! C'mon Apple!!
 
I think Sherlock should be intergrated into the Finder.

Why go to weather.com and waste your time downloading images
when you can access it from the finder.
 
Hi,
Interesting question. I want to add some more point-of-view). We must separate the concept of web-browsing (view HTML, Flash, Java, etc) from ftp-browsing (view folders and files).
I think that if we can browse between our own computer, and over our LAN, why can't we browse in the same way over the rest of the net?
If we can search file on our Mac, in the same way we would search on the net.

The only difference is the way the information is shown. In HTML the things looks as their creators wants (menus, graphics, sounds...); in the Finder, things looks like our computer saves the files.

I'm a detractor of M$, but their idea is good. The difference is that other programs do each task better than their OS. But they knows that if the new user don't know about better programs, they don't use them, and then these programs don't sell, and it goes to close and dissapear, and goes to M$ monopoly.

Sorry for my poor English (I'm Spanish). I hope you understand me. Thanx.

Best regards.
 
Why go to weather.com and waste your time downloading images when you can access it from the finder.
Click to expand...

Why further clutter the Finder when you can access it from Sherlock?

The only difference is the way the information is shown.
Click to expand...

The difference isn't actually the way the information is shown; it's the information. Web sites are composed of text, images, flash content, etc., while hard drives and FTP sites are composed of files, folders, applications, etc. The idea of viewing web content in the same space you view a disk's contents is fundamentally flawed.

An HTML preview in the Finder, however, I could understand. OS X has built in previews for graphics, text, video, and sound, so why not HTML? I'm not sure how useful it would be given the preview area's size, but I certainly wouldn't complain if it existed.
 
solrac said:
I think it could be done in an easy way:

if address typed into finder starts with http://, just open safari and attempt to go to page.

What would be more useful is having an HTML preview of HTML pages in the preview window of the finder!! C'mon Apple!!
Click to expand...

I agree with solrac's idea. Web browsing should be left to Safari. However, perhaps better Finder integration in Safari could help. Suppose there was an option in Safari to have a side pane, or drawer, that contained a hierarchial (sp) listing of your hard drive, that way you could just drag web content to wherever you wanted, instead of having to use the Save As feature or open a Finder window.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top