MacOSX for Unix geeks?!?

S

stefmit

Guest
Hi, everyone,

I've finally bitten the bullet, and after years and years of x86 stuff, I got myself a nice, brand new iBook (choice driven by the underlying *nix flavored OS that Panther promises, as an old timer with Linux as platform, for network and security tools required by my job, combined with my lack of trust in the newer models of laptops, capable of running decenlty Linux - the Centrino issue, for those familiar with the subject). Now here is the deal: I have seen tons of forums and info on 'Unix for MAC users", and "Unix for Unix users, using MAC" ... but nothing about MacOSX for Linux-to-Mac converts. Or - in other words - where would you advise someone totally clueless about Mac GUI and the likes, to start from?

What have I done between last night (when I got the iBook) and today? Downloaded half the night the gcc package (developer tools) from Apple, and planning to get fink and finkcommander. But this IS it!

Any kind soul willing to share some pointers with me?

TIA,
Stef

P.S. I wonder how many people are in the same "boat" as I am, and if there may be worth an entire forum for ex_*nix --> Mac converts ?!?
 
Welcome to the LIGHT! ;)

Didn't you get a developer tools (xtools) cd with your system? Or were you fetching updates to the tools?

A couple things off the top of my head:

1. Put the Terminal program on your Dock by going to /Applications/Utilities and dragging it somewhere on the left side of the Dock. The Dock icons are aliases (or shortcuts or whatever you want to call them) so you won't have moved anything.

2. Get Apple's "X11" app, their version of XFree 86. It will integrate X-Windows with Aqua including OpenGl acceleration under X-Windows as well as 3-d acceleration of 2-d window contents (Quartz Extreme), something not offered by anyone but Apple.

Of course, any of your favorite Linux apps and utilities for which you can't find Darwin binaries should compile without much trouble. But there are a ton of binaries available.

3. Hit <Apple Key> S (Apple key is called "command") when starting up the machine to enter single user mode. Here you can run fsck (the hfs version) if you wish.

4. You're probably NOT going to want to format any drives using UFS; Apple's implementation is very slow and not completely compatible with the Mac stuff.

Apple's Hierarchical File System +, brought over from the "classic" Mac OS is pretty good and journaling has been added. There's a case-sensitive version and a case-insensitive version. You'll probably want to stick with the case-INsensitive version, believe it or not. It usually works fine, unless you have apps that have same-named files with different case. Obviously, none of the OS X or classic Mac apps will have a problem with case-insensitivity.

Why stay away from the case-sensitive version? It's brand new and (relatively) untested. Who knows what kinds of incompatibilities might crop up.

5. OpenOffice.org seems to work quite well on OS X under X11. You could even use the Unix version of (gasp!) Microsoft Office ("Microsoft Office v.X for OS X) if you wish. For a Microsoft product, it's real purty. Also, OS X's TextEdit, the gui text editor, will read and write .doc files.

6. OS X's Preview gui app shows .PDF files REALLY QUICKLY, much faster than Acrobat Reader/Adobe Reader.

7. OS X's Mail app (starting with OS X 10.3) shows HTML emails quite well and is overall a good email app. You have several other choices. There's Microsoft Entourage, part of MS Office, very similar to Outlook; Eudora, of course Pine and Elm, etc.

I could go on and on but at some point my *nix ignorance would show. I'm not really a *nix guy. I'm still a nuB. In fact, I was running Winblows (ugh) until a couple years ago when the governor of Michigan bought me an iBook (true story -- we go way back. . .).

As for Linux to OS X switchers' books, I'm not sure. Check out www.oreilly.com (and www.macdevcenter.com).

Have fun.

Doug
 
Doug,

Thanks a lot for the quick and thorough response :) See comments inline:

Welcome to the LIGHT! ;)
Didn't you get a developer tools (xtools) cd with your system? Or were you fetching updates to the tools?
Click to expand...

No, I didn't ... or I do not recall anything spelled out as such, on the bunch of CDs I got with my iBook?!?. I thought I may need the whole package, not only the updates. I was actually unssuccesful in installing the tools from Apple's developer site, last night (though - after downloading the 548MB - no error came up, when trying to install it would complain about part 001, which seemed to have been missing from the site altogether?!?). I will have to do some more digging tonight.

2. Get Apple's "X11" app, their version of XFree 86. It will integrate X-Windows with Aqua including OpenGl acceleration under X-Windows as well as 3-d acceleration of 2-d window contents (Quartz Extreme), something not offered by anyone but Apple.
Click to expand...

What would be the benefit of this, vs. the "X" delivered by default? I do not want to install really everything from my previous Linux "world" (I may as well have gotten Yellow Dog Linux, then), but rather take advantage of what Mac has had to offer for so many year - nice X. Or are you referring to possible incompatibilities between some old "X" programs, if ported to Mac OSX?

Why stay away from the case-sensitive version? It's brand new and (relatively) untested. Who knows what kinds of incompatibilities might crop up.
Click to expand...

This may be a bummer ...

5. OpenOffice.org seems to work quite well on OS X under X11. You could even use the Unix version of (gasp!) Microsoft Office ("Microsoft Office v.X for OS X) if you wish. For a Microsoft product, it's real purty. Also, OS X's TextEdit, the gui text editor, will read and write .doc files.
Click to expand...

I just read somewhere about problems with OO and printing on HP ... oh, well, I will have to try it myself, to see what's going on there ...

7. OS X's Mail app (starting with OS X 10.3) shows HTML emails quite well and is overall a good email app. You have several other choices. There's Microsoft Entourage, part of MS Office, very similar to Outlook; Eudora, of course Pine and Elm, etc.
Click to expand...

I hate passionately HTML emails. I will have to look into pine or something ... but - again - temporarily the existing email app may do just fine. The need for communication is higher than the willingness to kill HTML emailing right away, on my new Mac.

Thanks again!!!
Stef
 
stefmit said:
What would be the benefit of this, vs. the "X" delivered by default? I do not want to install really everything from my previous Linux "world" (I may as well have gotten Yellow Dog Linux, then), but rather take advantage of what Mac has had to offer for so many year - nice X. Or are you referring to possible incompatibilities between some old "X" programs, if ported to Mac OSX?
Click to expand...

I think you're confusing OS X with X11. In order to run any X11 based apps you need to use Apples X11.app application (or the XFree86 version, but the X11.app is easier), basically will run a rootless X11 server on the desktop, and all the X11 windows will be controlled just as normal Aqua windows are. Aqua itself doesn't directly support the X11 environment. Or, I might be misunderstanding your respose, people love to get confused with "OS X" and "X11", especially as most people refer to X11 simple as X :)


stefmit said:
I hate passionately HTML emails. I will have to look into pine or something ... but - again - temporarily the existing email app may do just fine. The need for communication is higher than the willingness to kill HTML emailing right away, on my new Mac.
Click to expand...


Mail.app can send in plain text, doesn't have to do HTML, it's just that it is pretty good at displaying it if thats your cup of tea :)

As for the Mac GUI itself and the other Mac'isms, go to http://www.info.apple.com/usen/panther. There are alot of good topics there on getting started with OS X, also the "Using Mac OS X (Panther)" discussion forum on http://discussions.info.apple.com. Also, feel free to ask anything here too :) I mostly use the discussions board from Apple to simple search for issues/resolutions, as actually posting there you can get a low signal to noise ratio.


Brian
 
Oh, I also forgot, if you got a .Mac membership, there is an online training course for 10.2.

Brian
 
Developer tools:
I don't know what they're including with iBooks, but I thought that they were including XTools (the new name for the OS X developer tools) with the rest of the operating system. It's on its own disk. if you continue to have problems, you might want to use your 90 day free tech support and get them to find it for you.

X-Windows:

OS X uses a proprietary windowing system called Aqua, derived from the NextStep Postscript-based windowing system from the olden days. It is VERY powerful, with a sophisticated compositing engine, true transparency, in many ways much more powerful than ANYTHING out there.

But, if you want to run X-Windows applications, you'll need X-Windows. If you don't want to run OpenOffice, Gimp, etc., forget about X11. There are many, many powerful programs that run natively on OS X.

Case Sensitivity:
There was a lot of discussion about case sensitivity problems early on. Except in very rare situations, it hasn't been a problem at all.

OpenOffice:
I have a Lexmark inkjet. I don't know about HP printers. BTW, OS X uses CUPS, so you will have access to a gazillion printer drivers. That's helpful mostly if you have older printers.

OS X Mail:
I argree with you about HTML messages mostly. But I subscribe to Lockergnome and some other HTML newsletters. It's nice being able to see the thing correctly.

You can actually set preferences so that the program doesn't load imbedded messages and objects in HTML messages. Go to the application menu (the menu named for the program) and select Preferences>Viewing.

BTW, malicious HTML messages have thus far had no effect on Macs.

Doug
 
BTW,

Check out /Applications/Utilities. You may find some of these gui utilities useful, such as Network Utility. Nothing you couldn't do with command-line tools, of course.

Doug
 
Instead of running OpenOffice which uses X11 and as such, the fonts aren't really as nice as the rest of OS X. You might want to take a look at NeoOffice.

NeoOffice is based on OpenOffice 1.0.3 (1.1 coming soon), and it uses Java instead of X11. So you get really nice fonts, and the performance isn't bad either as Java is pretty snappy on OS X.
 
Q: What can NeoOffice do?

Launch. Let you draw some cubes. Let you open some OpenOffice.org or Word documents. And, with the flaming yeti build, print too. Then maybe crash and burn. Maybe not. It's a proof of concept...that doesn't mean it runs well :)


Q: Will NeoOffice be updated in the future?

NeoOffice will only be updated according to its purpose: prototyping technologies for use in OpenOffice.org. This doesn't mean a new binary every week; all work goes on in CVS. We may fix bugs, we may not. NeoOffice is not meant to be a quality office suite for general use. So...download the source code! Build it ! Check it out!
Click to expand...

That sure sounds like a robust solution to me, it might even allow me to open and save an existing word doc without corrupting it! How sweet is that!!!


Brian
 
dktrickey said:
Developer tools:
I don't know what they're including with iBooks, but I thought that they were including XTools (the new name for the OS X developer tools) with the rest of the operating system. It's on its own disk. if you continue to have problems, you might want to use your 90 day free tech support and get them to find it for you.
Click to expand...

I did not want to reply before double-triple checking the content of the
CD package I received with my iBook (as a Mac newbie, I was afraid I was
overlooking something) - and the answer is "no" - it was not among the
deliverables (I had 5 CDs of applications "restore", then another set for
the Mac OSX itself, one CD for the Worldbook 2003, and one for hardware
tests). BUT I did not mind, as I registered and downloaded the group of files making
Xtools, from the developer site (as I stated earlier). The problem is that
- when running the last file of that group (which seems to be the
equivalent of the unrar/unzip/uncompress recursively ... I think you guys
call this "unstuffing"?!?) in the downloaded set - the one that seems to
be actually the "head of the compressed pack" - I get an error about the
first file not found. I even "unstuffed"/uncompressed each individual file
downloaded (though I truly believe that this should be the result of a
recursive process, starting from the first), then ran each one of them, in
the hope that I was missing the concept here ... still to no avail.

I am thinking of taking next (I ran out of time last night) all the
manually uncompressed files, "cat" them into one, and see if that
runs/installs ... hacking like in the good old days of first Linux
kernelsIf you have other ideas, I would appreciate hearing about them.

... and a THANK YOU ALL to those who responded to my query so fast - my first
attempt at Mac, the first forum I stumbled across, the first posting, and
such an overwhelming response ... I'm [still] feeling lucky, as Google says :)

Stef

P.S. For one of the other responses - I was not confusing X11 and Mac's X - I
was just not sure if Mac's X was in fact a "flavor" of X11 - but it looks like it isn't
so I will have to go after XFree86's site, probably, and get a Mac version
from there ... nothing difficult, though - done that a million times on the Linux
side - thanks again for the clarifications. But for that to happen I would need gcc,
thus Xtools, thus ... see above :(
 
apples X11 IS a flavor of the xfree86 product. in fact it is IMHO much better. it takes advantage of apple hardware, and as you will find out, apple does a darned good job of making their stuff work. if you are having problems getting your X11 apps running there are plenty of us here with experience so just ask.

but really, apples x11 is the ticket. i think you may have come across some bad info if you think otherwise.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/
 
cfleck said:
apples X11 IS a flavor of the xfree86 product. in fact it is IMHO much better. it takes advantage of apple hardware, and as you will find out, apple does a darned good job of making their stuff work. if you are having problems getting your X11 apps running there are plenty of us here with experience so just ask.

but really, apples x11 is the ticket. i think you may have come across some bad info if you think otherwise.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/
Click to expand...

Thank you for the kind offer. I may have to take you up on this, as I really want to use as much "apple-made" as possible ;)

But now I reached a dead end. Based on the error message I get, and on what I found on the 'net about it, things look "grey" ;( Just for the kick of it, I tried another dmg file from a friend of mine, and got the same problem (and this is so much Mac-related that I really have no clue on where to start debugging it). Here is the error:
"The following disk images failed to mount"
<file-name>.dmg error=536870208

and what I found about it:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=...580.18231417112003%40reader2.panix.com&rnum=1

Any ideas?!?
 
stefmit said:
Based on the error message I get, ...
Click to expand...

Now I realized I may not have been clear enough: I meant "based on the error message I get when trying to install the XTools out of the downloaded files" ... "as well as when trying to install any other dmg file, for that matter"

Sorry for any confusion ...
 
Ouch. Sounds like that obscure bug I read about a few weeks ago with the newest Mac hardware.

I'll see if I can find the solution. . . Try searching Apple's support for "mount .dmg" or something. ** Go here --> http://www.info.apple.com/ **

Be sure to look at www.macosxhints.com, another excellent Mac site. I may get in trouble for recommending it (as a moderator), but I don't think it's really competition for MacOSX.com. I read both regularly.

Doug

EDIT: By the way, what version of Panther do you have? 10.3 or 10.3.1? You can find out by clicking on the Apple menu>About This Mac.
 
dktrickey said:
Ouch. Sounds like that obscure bug I read about a few weeks ago with the newest Mac hardware.

I'll see if I can find the solution. . . Try searching Apple's support for "mount .dmg" or something. ** Go here --> http://www.info.apple.com/ **

Be sure to look at www.macosxhints.com, another excellent Mac site. I may get in trouble for recommending it (as a moderator), but I don't think it's really competition for MacOSX.com. I read both regularly.

Doug

EDIT: By the way, what version of Panther do you have? 10.3 or 10.3.1? You can find out by clicking on the Apple menu>About This Mac.
Click to expand...

Thank you for following up on this ;) I have 10.3.1, with whatever recent updates applied.

I have good news: I figured out the problem! No .dmg file would install if using either the "normal" process, or by double-clicking the files from the desktop ... but poking around the finder, I have found an installer "folder'?!?, where some files show up with icons similar with the RPM ones (for lack of a better description). When running the appropriate files from inside that "installer" folder, I got everything working.

Thanks again to all - now I have XTools, fink and finkcomannder installed, and I am doing an X11 installation with the latter, as I am writing this.

Stef
 
dktrickey said:
stefmit,

Glad you found a solution. I'd urge you to use Apple's version of X11 instead of the one available through Fink (unless they're pointing to Apple's X11).

Apple's has Open GL acceleration, integration with Aqua, etc. It's FASTER! Go to -> http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/x11/download/ (thanks to cfleck).

Doug
Click to expand...

Took your advice and got it to work ;) Thank you! I tested as my first app ethereal. I still do not quite understand the mechanics of launching this stuff in Mac: if I am in a "Mac" terminal window, and launch
$ startx
then in the newly created terminal (under Apple's X11) I can launch any X11 program (e.g. ethereal).

If I go by the "book/instructions" way (i.e. Applications>Utilities>X11.app), any application I try to run cannot be found (a path issue of some sort, I would guess). I checked my .profile, and I have the proper "pointer" to /sw/bin/init.sh (I am running bash, of course).
 
Etheral can't do anything unless it runs with certain privileges, it has to be able to read a system file somewhere that a normal admin user can't read. Is there any way to use it as root, or give it a new group and authorize that group for reading the certain file? It doesn't do me a lot of good right now...
 
mr. k said:
Etheral can't do anything unless it runs with certain privileges, it has to be able to read a system file somewhere that a normal admin user can't read. Is there any way to use it as root, or give it a new group and authorize that group for reading the certain file? It doesn't do me a lot of good right now...
Click to expand...

You are right, but this is not what I am talking about. Launching ethereal is not necessarily related to being able to read off of an interface - I am just talking about the GUI here. In any case, I do "su -" in both cases - and if starting X with startx ethereal is found by both "regular" user, as well as root. If starting X through the "menus" (Applications>Utilities>X.app), neither the user, nor the root (after "su -") could find the executable - and this is what I was refering to.
 
Do an echo $PATH in the xterm to see what the PATH is set to. If it doesn't contain /sw/bin you probably didn't source (i.e. execute in the calling shell context by putting a . in front of the script) the /sw/bin/init.sh script in .profile:
. /sw/bin/init.sh
 
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