Making a Start
- Thread starter Trip
- Start date
kilowatt
mach-o mach-o man
Originally posted by .dev.lqd
Deciding to 'define yourself' at an early (or late) stage of the game can end up being far less constructive than you think.
My advice: program, but don't be a programmer. Design, but don't be a designer. Both titles carry far too many negative connotations these days
sound advice
phatsharpie
Futuristic Robotic Cat
Don't define yourself, since life will often define it for you. Instead, do what you love, and see where life leads you.
I, for example, got accepted to U.C. Berkeley in their Electrical Engineering and Computer Science program. But before even starting my freshman year, I decided I want to be a film student. I changed my major, and got myself a B.A. in Film Studies. But for the past six year, even while I was in school, I worked as a developer, and now I am a server side Java developer. And in two weeks I will go back to school and get my Master's in IT.
Life leads you down some interesting paths - enjoy it! Options are everywhere, so why limit yourself?
I, for example, got accepted to U.C. Berkeley in their Electrical Engineering and Computer Science program. But before even starting my freshman year, I decided I want to be a film student. I changed my major, and got myself a B.A. in Film Studies. But for the past six year, even while I was in school, I worked as a developer, and now I am a server side Java developer. And in two weeks I will go back to school and get my Master's in IT.
Life leads you down some interesting paths - enjoy it! Options are everywhere, so why limit yourself?
edX
mac shaman
i refuse to vote in this poll for a variety of reasons. the biggest one is that this is really a choice you need to make. and you need to follow the phat man's advice when you do. Do what you love most and it will guide you to the rest. do what you love and doing it the best you can will come easy. and never think that choosing a path means there aren't forks in it. There will be plenty of them. some might even lead you back to this fork. some will go places you haven't even thought of yet.
and once you show that you can do something - anything, there will more doors open for you to do something else if you really want to. (and if you keep an eye out for open doors )
and once you show that you can do something - anything, there will more doors open for you to do something else if you really want to. (and if you keep an eye out for open doors
)
uoba
Re: member
Jack of all trades, master of none... as the ol' English saying goes.
I go with most peoples opinions on here, reserving the right not to vote because it isn't as cut and dry as just two options.
I studied sound engineering, then by chance became a graduate of typography, turned that into being a web designer, and now spend more time running a business (doing accounts etc ).
At the same time I am trying to catch up with PHP/MySQL etc.
Now, back to the phrase at the top, if your going to do something, do it first and foremost with a passion and not because it's the vogue thing to do (which it won't be by the time you finish studying it! ) But equally, make sure you don't get involved in so many interests for a career that you don't have enough time that each one deserves (my design skills are suffering because I am trying to learn PHP etc) if you catch my drift.
I go with most peoples opinions on here, reserving the right not to vote because it isn't as cut and dry as just two options.
I studied sound engineering, then by chance became a graduate of typography, turned that into being a web designer, and now spend more time running a business (doing accounts etc
). At the same time I am trying to catch up with PHP/MySQL etc.
Now, back to the phrase at the top, if your going to do something, do it first and foremost with a passion and not because it's the vogue thing to do (which it won't be by the time you finish studying it!
) But equally, make sure you don't get involved in so many interests for a career that you don't have enough time that each one deserves (my design skills are suffering because I am trying to learn PHP etc) if you catch my drift.
evildan
Super Moderator
While I am not attempting to pick on those of you who did not vote, I think you may have missed the meaning of the poll.
Trip is not asking you what to do with his life... he is asking the following:
Which I think is a very responsible question. It shows maturity Trip that you're thinking of market demand when making a career choice. I admire that.
I think it's our duty to help a friend in need. And to answer his question effectively we really should vote.
Trip, I am one person, with one opinion, so what I am saying isn't the golden rule of advice. But I feel that I have a bit of real-world experience when it comes to answering your question. I started out as a Graphic Designer, then moved in to the world of Web Development shortly after. I have been developing websites ever since .
I wasn't always a Graphic Designer, in fact, originally I was a programmer.
I regret that I didn't stay on top of my programming skills, because now I am seeing such a demand for good programming on the web. I am going back to the programming with mixed emotions but with my development of websites it's really a tool you can't stay away from.
But before we get too involved with the details of my life, let's look at what you want out of your life, as I feel the intention of previous posts were trying to get you to do.
I think your poll question is a very strong one. You're looking for what do business owners out there want. And you should know the answer to that question before you decide what kind of career you want to get yourself into.
Well the answer is not that simple, why would it be huh? There are many businesses out there, of varying sizes and missions. So there is a question you have to have the answer for first is:
What do you want out of an employer?
You should know this because that is a good way of determining what kind of skills you will need to impress those specific employers.
Here are some questions I asked myself:
Do I want to work for a small company or a big one?
Is it more important for me to enjoy my job then to get paid what I want?
How much money do I need to make?
How much money do I want to make?
Does my current job offer me the ability to achieve my financial goals?
Drawbacks to Graphic Design
Point of fact, youre not going to get rich being a Graphic Designer. Its a very popular profession, but just being an artist in the business world automatically means low salary. The saying starving artist has not been more true today from when the term was coined.
Even in good companies, with high paying executives, the designers get lower salaries. Artists positions have always been that way. In fact, when applying for a Web Designer Position just this year, I later found out that the company was actually looking for a Web Programmer, but wanted only applicants who would except a lower salary. Its because art is subjective, its value cannot be weighed or calculated in real-world terms, so how does a business asses a value for it?
Positives of Graphic Design
You have to love it. It is truly a labor of love. If you enjoy creating, as I do, then there is nothing more fulfilling then seeing your finished design in published form.
There are a lot of bad designers out there, and we certainly need more good ones in the industry.
There are also a lot more companies looking for designers. In my Sunday paper the ratio is easily 3 to 1 in favour of Designers over Programmers. There is a better chance at getting a job if your a Designer, in my opinion.
Drawbacks Programming
The draw back of programming is that you actually have to program. I enjoy it, as most programmers do, but for some, the idea of sitting in front of code all day is not that appealing. You might want to consider if that interests you. And a big part of programming is debugging code. You probably wont start out writing code at all, more than likely youll end up looking at pre-existing code and finding errors or ways to improve it.
Positives Programming
Money is the first thing that pops into my head. There is a strong demand for people who know how to program. Customized applications, back-end website development, game development, you name it, the demand is there.
The other great thing about programming, is that it does combine enough creativity in with a technical skill. Employers see it as a technical skill that has a clear benefit. They can equate money saved based on the cost cutting results of the programs created, etc.
And, at least in my area, Programmers start out making at least $20,000 more a year then any Graphic Design position in a comparative company. ( source: salary.com ). But then I dont love programming as much as I do design.
I think although there may be more companies out there looking for Designers, there are less programmers and thus your chance of getting a good job (pending the that you're qualified) are greater if you're a programmer.
Trip is not asking you what to do with his life... he is asking the following:
Which I think is a very responsible question. It shows maturity Trip that you're thinking of market demand when making a career choice. I admire that.
I think it's our duty to help a friend in need. And to answer his question effectively we really should vote.
Trip, I am one person, with one opinion, so what I am saying isn't the golden rule of advice. But I feel that I have a bit of real-world experience when it comes to answering your question. I started out as a Graphic Designer, then moved in to the world of Web Development shortly after. I have been developing websites ever since .
I wasn't always a Graphic Designer, in fact, originally I was a programmer.
I regret that I didn't stay on top of my programming skills, because now I am seeing such a demand for good programming on the web. I am going back to the programming with mixed emotions but with my development of websites it's really a tool you can't stay away from.
But before we get too involved with the details of my life, let's look at what you want out of your life, as I feel the intention of previous posts were trying to get you to do.
I think your poll question is a very strong one. You're looking for what do business owners out there want. And you should know the answer to that question before you decide what kind of career you want to get yourself into.
Well the answer is not that simple, why would it be huh? There are many businesses out there, of varying sizes and missions. So there is a question you have to have the answer for first is:
What do you want out of an employer?
You should know this because that is a good way of determining what kind of skills you will need to impress those specific employers.
Here are some questions I asked myself:
Do I want to work for a small company or a big one?
Is it more important for me to enjoy my job then to get paid what I want?
How much money do I need to make?
How much money do I want to make?
Does my current job offer me the ability to achieve my financial goals?
Drawbacks to Graphic Design
Point of fact, youre not going to get rich being a Graphic Designer. Its a very popular profession, but just being an artist in the business world automatically means low salary. The saying starving artist has not been more true today from when the term was coined.
Even in good companies, with high paying executives, the designers get lower salaries. Artists positions have always been that way. In fact, when applying for a Web Designer Position just this year, I later found out that the company was actually looking for a Web Programmer, but wanted only applicants who would except a lower salary. Its because art is subjective, its value cannot be weighed or calculated in real-world terms, so how does a business asses a value for it?
Positives of Graphic Design
You have to love it. It is truly a labor of love. If you enjoy creating, as I do, then there is nothing more fulfilling then seeing your finished design in published form.
There are a lot of bad designers out there, and we certainly need more good ones in the industry.
There are also a lot more companies looking for designers. In my Sunday paper the ratio is easily 3 to 1 in favour of Designers over Programmers. There is a better chance at getting a job if your a Designer, in my opinion.
Drawbacks Programming
The draw back of programming is that you actually have to program. I enjoy it, as most programmers do, but for some, the idea of sitting in front of code all day is not that appealing. You might want to consider if that interests you. And a big part of programming is debugging code. You probably wont start out writing code at all, more than likely youll end up looking at pre-existing code and finding errors or ways to improve it.
Positives Programming
Money is the first thing that pops into my head. There is a strong demand for people who know how to program. Customized applications, back-end website development, game development, you name it, the demand is there.
The other great thing about programming, is that it does combine enough creativity in with a technical skill. Employers see it as a technical skill that has a clear benefit. They can equate money saved based on the cost cutting results of the programs created, etc.
And, at least in my area, Programmers start out making at least $20,000 more a year then any Graphic Design position in a comparative company. ( source: salary.com ). But then I dont love programming as much as I do design.
I think although there may be more companies out there looking for Designers, there are less programmers and thus your chance of getting a good job (pending the that you're qualified) are greater if you're a programmer.
symphonix
Scratch & Sniff Committee
I've always found graphic design to be very fulfilling and satisying. Sure, it doesn't pay as well as a real programming job. And yes, the hours can be long, especially if you are working in newspaper design. However, for me I found it much more satisfying.
I should point out though that my work in IT has been in a corporate environment, and my objection to working under those conditions was a philosophical one. Perhaps if I'd designed for a large multi-national corporation and then moved into a small, family run software house my perception would be completely reversed.
Programming satisies your left brain. It is a process of logical deduction and reasoning that challenges your analytical brain. Design, on the other hand, is - or should be - an art. When you are designing, your right brain is making the decisions.
If I were you, I'd work as hard as you can at both, at least for now ... and don't limit yourself in any way. Keep a sketch book with you at all times and try and develop your drawing ability. On the other hand, try and dabble in every obscure programming language you can find. In both cases, keep everything you do and maintain a folio of your work.
Read up on typography, cryptology, printing, electronics, in fact anything that might help you see more of the big picture.
When the time comes to go out and get a job, don't make the mistake of going to the biggest companies first and working your way down. I've worked for the biggest, and I know that they don't respect their employees. It seems that the bigger a company gets, the less the people within it care about their work.
Instead, find a small company or group who can inspire you, somewhere where you can see that you are making a difference and really grow.
Good Luck!
I should point out though that my work in IT has been in a corporate environment, and my objection to working under those conditions was a philosophical one. Perhaps if I'd designed for a large multi-national corporation and then moved into a small, family run software house my perception would be completely reversed.
Programming satisies your left brain. It is a process of logical deduction and reasoning that challenges your analytical brain. Design, on the other hand, is - or should be - an art. When you are designing, your right brain is making the decisions.
If I were you, I'd work as hard as you can at both, at least for now ... and don't limit yourself in any way. Keep a sketch book with you at all times and try and develop your drawing ability. On the other hand, try and dabble in every obscure programming language you can find. In both cases, keep everything you do and maintain a folio of your work.
Read up on typography, cryptology, printing, electronics, in fact anything that might help you see more of the big picture.
When the time comes to go out and get a job, don't make the mistake of going to the biggest companies first and working your way down. I've worked for the biggest, and I know that they don't respect their employees. It seems that the bigger a company gets, the less the people within it care about their work.
Instead, find a small company or group who can inspire you, somewhere where you can see that you are making a difference and really grow.
Good Luck!
uoba
Re: member
I would go a bit further to say design is part right and part left side of your brain (art is 90% right, design about 65%... but as the great English comedian Vic Reeves states: 83.4% of statistics are made up on the spot!))
There is a logical order to design, primarily because you have to fit it in with the simplistic rules of communication governed by the majority, this is a logical process.
Anyway, I don't wanna make this into a design theory thread (we can save that for the Front End forum if you like!!)
All I can say to Trip is (as in my other post), it is hard, very hard, to be all of the above!
There is a logical order to design, primarily because you have to fit it in with the simplistic rules of communication governed by the majority, this is a logical process.
Anyway, I don't wanna make this into a design theory thread (we can save that for the Front End forum if you like!!)
All I can say to Trip is (as in my other post), it is hard, very hard, to be all of the above!
However it should be noted that larger companies tend to have quite good training programmes and will look better on your resume. When you are starting out it is better if you can get into good standards early on, and whilst larger companies may not be better than all smaller companies, they do tend to have minimum standards.
This is of couse a generalisation, but my advice is when looking at a company make sure that you understand what training you will be getting. This should be in writing as well (brochure, last years course list, etc.), x number of days external training in your contract, etc. because it is very easy for a company to verbally agree to something (often with the best will in the world) and then never quite get round to it.
I agree that smaller companies are more personal and I much prefer working for them. However I have never regretted my first three years in a large company getting a very good grounding in my industry. I can always return to basics when things get tough.
R.