Michael Dell: "I would sell OS X on my machines"

Why are people assuming 'clones' will be made? Apple will be making (it seems) PC clones, it may require a 'slight' modification to Dells at most, to validate OS X. (Intel's DRM?)

(If Dell made a "Intel Mac" the size of a mini which was cheaper, I'd consider one. I'd never go back to a big buzzy box again)

But we really are running ahead of ourselves here. Mr Dell (I hate people that use first names, as if they KNOW these guys!) was posed a hypothetical question, one which Apple have RULED OUT (for now), and he gave a hypothetical answer.
 
Hate is too strong a word, I should be a bit more responsible.

I find it 'amusingly pretentious' is a more accurate description :p I don't really hate anyone or anything.. except spiders, and perhaps Microsoft's Windows. :)
 
Now you're just being anti-establishment for the sake of being so. :) Windows is a good product... at times throughout its history. It may not be what you like, but you can't hate Windows for the sake of hating it. That's like hating electricity because you could get shocked or hating water because you could drown. Nah... Windows is good and Microsoft is not evil.

It's funny... Developers are the first to bash Windows, but the ones doing it aren't Windows developers... they're people who have, in many cases, never written anything more complex than "Hello world" - but they made the mistake of doing an MFC+ATL COM-riddled mess of a "Hello world" so it all just seems needlessly complicated (which it *can* be at times).

Users also bash Windows when 99% of the time, the *USER* is the problem. More specifically, what the user has *DONE* to his computer is the problem. A PC riddled with spyware and viruses running every file sharing program and freeware piece of crap label maker with embedded "SAVE.COM" popup ads most definitely *is* a piece of crap. And the fact that the Windows security model is wide open is absolutely a weak point, but that can be controlled, if someone cares to learn enough to take the *hour* or so it might take to lock your system down (a state that is *should* be shipped in a la Unix and Novell of olde).

I'll say it once more - Apple computers are *apparently* more stable because they come from a proprietary, tightly controlled background. Windows has to be everything to everyone. And THAT is its true weakness.
 
<argh off topic sorry, but i need to say it>

my experience, and i'm writing on my parents Dell, as i'm staying here ATM, is that my mac will go wrong if i'm trying to do something silly with it or wilfully trying to clog it up with uncertified thirdparty rubbish. 9 times out of ten it goes right. it's solid.

before i came home, i was championing windows' improvement over the years, that it was a stable, solid environment, let down by brain dead idiot users. i came home, and started using my parents dell again. within 20 mins i screamed. my parents are by no means imbeciles (my father works in IT), they both have degrees. but the computer was a mess. end users, without knowing what they were doing was wrong, bugger up a computer with XP on it.

With windows, it's not so much what you do that brings the system down (like macOS), more what you don't do - maintenance is a huge thing just to keep it clean and stable. we currently have: AVG, Microsoft Anti-Spyware, Kerio Anti-Virus, and my new contributions, Adaware and Crap Cleaner, all running daily to keep on top of things. this reduces the 512mb of ram to nearly-useless. Microsoft still claim 64mb of ram as minimum usable requirements. (it's a 2.4ghz system, but it is DOG slow)

people just don't realise how far ahead of the game MacOS is. general public have accepted that virus' are a thing that you must have if you have acomputer. everyone must have antivirus. that all those nice effects the computer games have don't happen in the OS because it just can't. macos isn't like that. it does have things that remind you that you're working on a 21st cenbtury machine, and virus are something we don't worry about. no wonder Mr Dell wants macOS. it's the future of windows, today. (....and back on topic!)

</argh off topic sorry, but i need to say it>
 
chornbe said:
....

Users also bash Windows when 99% of the time, the *USER* is the problem. ....
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My God, how could I have been so blind?! The user is the problem. Get rid of Windows users and its problems go away. Why didn't I think of this before?
 
<also off topic>

It's not just users that's the problem, it's a faulty OS!!!! I mean come on, how many pros do you know -Including Gates himself- that have screwed up in Windows? Remember when Gates's BRAND NEW Media Center PC crashed and burned? I'm sure that that computer had 0 viruses, was running a modified version of Media Center, and the end user was the one that MADE the thing. I can't remember how many times I've had to run over to my neighbor's house to figure out why IE isn't working correctly, or why they keep getting a random error message. (you ever get an **ERROR** message that said "Error loading the previous error"?) As I said in a previous thread, when I borrowed my friend's buggy and slow laptop PC with XP, I ended up installing Slax Linux on it and the thing ran beautifully. No wonder Mr. Dell wants a license to OSX! (There, back on topic)
 
Nice one MisterMe, so we're agreed. Windows is fine if you don't use it! Thank God, MY copy of Windows is safely tucked inside a virtual machine, where the damn thing belongs. Look, I'm not too keen on Microsoft, I'll give credit to them where it's due, I was actually impressed by Office and PocketPCs after being a Linux PDA advocate. But Windows is naff, disagree if you want, that's your right. But I have an opinion too, it's shyte.
 
Qion said:
you ever get an **ERROR** message that said "Error loading the previous error"?
Click to expand...

No, but I remember my dear old PowerMac 5500 saying "An error occured because an error occured"

The difference of course is with the Mac I laughed for hours, with Windows I'm more inclined to take a hammer to it.

Back to the thrilling thread lest the thought police start moaning....
 
Well no, but I can give you mine....

Yep, here you go- (Press any key to continue or any other key to quit)
 

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MisterMe said:
My God, how could I have been so blind?! The user is the problem. Get rid of Windows users and its problems go away. Why didn't I think of this before?
Click to expand...

I went on to clarify... you underquoted me. No, *being* a user isn't the problem - being able to down and install shit software with spyware and popups is *part of* the problem.

Windows isn't a crap OS... the fact that the security in Windows is wide open is 99% of the "spyware" problem.

Let's look at it this way... if every Mac user on OS/X was loggin in as root all the time (to simulate the Windows user security model) and Mac's OS/X had the market share that Windows has - thus prompting all the basement dwelling fukktards who write spyware, trojans and viruses to attack OS/X, then Microsoft would be hollaring from their 6% marketshare position that "Windows doesn't have any viruses".

Mac people are smart, right? So prove it... be smart and say things like "Macs don't have viruses because a) users don't run around as root and b) because we're not so big in the computer landscape that trojan makers bother with us."

If Windows was locked down (properly) 99% of the problems go away. Windows doesn't suck. The Windows security model sucks... and sucks bad... thus giving the impression that Windows sucks.

It may *seem* to be the same thing to people who don't look beyond their noses, but it's not. It's a huge, huge, huge difference.
 
PS... OS/X (which I love, btw, don't think I'm a Mac basher) is far from perfect. Just look in the (Mac OS X System & Mac Software) forum (http://macosx.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

here's a sample of the problems found there:

Corrupt Java installation fix for 10.3.9

Weird sound problem... :\

"Recovered files" folder in trash after restart

HELP PLEASE! Can't See Printer - WHY?

Strange display problem

All my fonts are gone...

---

I'd venture to say that *some* of these are *user* problems and not a problem with the system, yet it'd be real easy to list these problems out and, not knowing any details, say something like "Wow, look at all the problems OS/X has just in one page of post titles". Unfair? And how often do you hear "Just trash your preferences and re run it" ? Or "reset yoru power manager and it'll be fine". All systems, all OSes, all hardware, software, ball point pens... all every... have their issues.

Point being, this glass house is damned nice, but it's still a glass house.
 
Viro said:
The big question is if Mac OS X is everywhere, will it still be as good? Part of the reason for OS X's "everything just works" reputation is because Apple controls the hardware and the software. They only need to support a limited set of computer configurations, hence the OS is better tested and there are less bugs. Contrast this with Windows that runs on literally an infinite number of possible hardware combinations.
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That is *exactly* one of the points I've been making. Smaller, more controlled = "better".
 
scruffy said:
I'd certainly buy a Dell server with OS X on it. Their desktops are pretty uninspiring - but when it comes to servers, you want precisely the Soviet-style construction that Dell is all about.

That, and their servers actually have dual power supplies. Why the XServes don't, I doubt I'll ever know...
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So you'd rather have big, loud, power hungry machines filling your data center?

Personally I'd rather have twice as many xServes, and then just swap one out when the power supply dies. I beleive in redundancy, but not of every single part. As long as you've got redudant systems, you should be able to survive with one of them dead.

A lot of blade systems move the power supply out of the CPU box and into a seperate box. This allows the blades to be smaller, and the heat generating power supplies to be further away. (I'm not sure, but I think this also allows multiple blades to share power supplies as needed, requiring fewer for redundancy.)
 
chornbe said:
I went on to clarify... you underquoted me. No, *being* a user isn't the problem - being able to down and install shit software with spyware and popups is *part of* the problem.

Windows isn't a crap OS... the fact that the security in Windows is wide open is 99% of the "spyware" problem.

Let's look at it this way... if every Mac user on OS/X was loggin in as root all the time (to simulate the Windows user security model) and Mac's OS/X had the market share that Windows has - thus prompting all the basement dwelling fukktards who write spyware, trojans and viruses to attack OS/X, then Microsoft would be hollaring from their 6% marketshare position that "Windows doesn't have any viruses".

Mac people are smart, right? So prove it... be smart and say things like "Macs don't have viruses because a) users don't run around as root and b) because we're not so big in the computer landscape that trojan makers bother with us."

If Windows was locked down (properly) 99% of the problems go away. Windows doesn't suck. The Windows security model sucks... and sucks bad... thus giving the impression that Windows sucks.

It may *seem* to be the same thing to people who don't look beyond their noses, but it's not. It's a huge, huge, huge difference.
Click to expand...

(Eh-em)

I completely agree with everything you say, up until
chornbe said:
The Windows security model sucks... and sucks bad... thus giving the impression that Windows sucks.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but trojans horses, wormholes, and basement dwelling fucktards aren't the only contributors to why we don't like Windows. I worked with early DOS-based systems up until XP without internet. This taught me that Internet and it's problems aren't the only factors in an OS like Windows. Things like being intuitive, smooth, good-looking, non-problematic are the bigs ones. Yes, the security system plays a HUGE role in the rep of Windows, but that's not the only thing that gives it the bad rap.
 
Tommy - yeah, they're loud. So are Sun and IBM servers. I don't like that part so much. I don't really know about relative power consumption vs XServes.

Yes, you should have redundancy with entirely separate computers (if you can afford it), no question. But I also think it's nice to have the most failure-prone parts redundant in each computer as well - disks and power supplies. So, we have RAID in XServes, but no power supply redundancy. Ah well.

Now, that about the blade servers with external power supplies, that would be awfully nice. You could put the power supplies on the other side of a thin partitioning wall, to keep the noise down a bit, and just pull out a section of wall when you want to run some new power cables... Although I understand there can be issues if the AC-DC conversion happens too far from the power sinks, as it can make it harder for the power supply to keep up with fluctuating power demands. Or maybe that's a solved problem these days, Idunno.
 
Viro said:
This smells a lot like the same claims Dell has made in the past. "If customers ask for AMD, we'll sell AMD". Even with Linux, most Dells come prebundled with Windows. Try buying a laptop or desktop from Dell with Linux, or even without an OS. Not a chance.
Click to expand...

not sure about where you are but in Australia you can buy a dell laptop or desktop with no operating system. This was not possible in the past but now you can buy a "N" machine which has no OS.

Still.. as if you would buy a dell!

oh and dont forget.. IBM, Compaq and Dell wanted nExt all those years ago.. Its amazing how history repeats.
 
[OFF TOPIC]Sorry chornbe, Windows is crap, it's designed poorly, layer upon layer of mistakes, with NO security model and has a built-in crash-o-matic feature, not to mention that even without installing junk online, it gets slower and slower and slower until the user either upgrades the hardware or is forced to attempt a reinstall. An internet connection only makes it worse. As the quip goes "32bit extensions to a 16bit GUI for an 8bit OS on a 4bit processor by a 2bit company". It's rubbish mate, sorry.[/OFF TOPIC]
 
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