MacIntosh Man
Registered
I want to get a PowerBook G4 667MHz machine -- screaming portability!
My Dilemma
- Thread starter Dinkmeister
- Start date
kilowatt
mach-o mach-o man
I went through a similar dilemma.
Although I was allready a macintosh user, I wanted a computer to run osx on, and I wanted it to be fast.
Here are a few things to concider:
1) Used. There are tons of used g4's on ebay. Some of them, while they have lower mhz than the 733 quicksliver g4, were high-end when they were new and have large L3 caches and higher buss speeds. And they are much cheaper than the apple store.
2) Educational. http://store.apple.com click 'Eduication'. Select your school (trust me, your school may not realize it, but its listed at apple, and you get 10 to 20 percent off). These are the same computers (although you can get slower ones if you want) only much cheaper.
3) Ram. Ram ram ram. I wanted to get my comp from apple with zero ram because apple's ram is so darn expensive. I couldn't, so I got it with the base-level - 128megs. Then I found this web site, called 'otherworldcomputing.com' I think, and I got 512megs of ram for something like $50. Which is expensive by today's standards. The same config would have cost me +$300 from apple.
4) Demo. Go to an apple store (http://www.apple.com/retail) and see how OS X runs on various configurations. If there isn't an apple store near you.. well that just sucks ;-) apple stores ROCK
5) Buy your ide hard disk from some one else for less (same deal with the ram, really). And the same for the cdr's. Check apple's web site for dvd and cdr compatability lists, and get one of those $99 cdr's on sale at staples.
6) As for the screen, the GeForce 2mx (base line graphics card for the 733 I think) has two video connections - an ADC (for apple flat panels), and a vga (pc-style). you can use them both, and the geforce treats it like you have two seperate video cards, whith is cool, or mirrors them. Honestly, I played Quake3 arena on my 733 with the GeForce 2mx (32megs of video ram) and it ROCKED. my pc friends had never seen such beauty. It was smooth, colorfull.... Your G4 will probably run quake on a 32meg card just as well as it would on a 64meg card. I've heard people say you get one or two more frames per sec.. guess there's a bottle neck or two on the agp 4x port.
Oh, and if you decide to get a 19" or better monitor, keep in mind that you will LOVE IT!!! I had a 17" and a 15", so now that I have this 19" running 1600x1200@85hz, I can't look at other computers anymore because my eyes hurt ;-).
If you get a G4, you will be happy. Guarenteed. Don't bother with a G3 (unless you are really pinching the pennies). And I wouldn't get an upgraded G3. Get as little as possable if you buy from apple, and upgrade.
Good luck with your computing adventures!
Although I was allready a macintosh user, I wanted a computer to run osx on, and I wanted it to be fast.
Here are a few things to concider:
1) Used. There are tons of used g4's on ebay. Some of them, while they have lower mhz than the 733 quicksliver g4, were high-end when they were new and have large L3 caches and higher buss speeds. And they are much cheaper than the apple store.
2) Educational. http://store.apple.com click 'Eduication'. Select your school (trust me, your school may not realize it, but its listed at apple, and you get 10 to 20 percent off). These are the same computers (although you can get slower ones if you want) only much cheaper.
3) Ram. Ram ram ram. I wanted to get my comp from apple with zero ram because apple's ram is so darn expensive. I couldn't, so I got it with the base-level - 128megs. Then I found this web site, called 'otherworldcomputing.com' I think, and I got 512megs of ram for something like $50. Which is expensive by today's standards. The same config would have cost me +$300 from apple.
4) Demo. Go to an apple store (http://www.apple.com/retail) and see how OS X runs on various configurations. If there isn't an apple store near you.. well that just sucks ;-) apple stores ROCK
5) Buy your ide hard disk from some one else for less (same deal with the ram, really). And the same for the cdr's. Check apple's web site for dvd and cdr compatability lists, and get one of those $99 cdr's on sale at staples.
6) As for the screen, the GeForce 2mx (base line graphics card for the 733 I think) has two video connections - an ADC (for apple flat panels), and a vga (pc-style). you can use them both, and the geforce treats it like you have two seperate video cards, whith is cool, or mirrors them. Honestly, I played Quake3 arena on my 733 with the GeForce 2mx (32megs of video ram) and it ROCKED. my pc friends had never seen such beauty. It was smooth, colorfull.... Your G4 will probably run quake on a 32meg card just as well as it would on a 64meg card. I've heard people say you get one or two more frames per sec.. guess there's a bottle neck or two on the agp 4x port.
Oh, and if you decide to get a 19" or better monitor, keep in mind that you will LOVE IT!!! I had a 17" and a 15", so now that I have this 19" running 1600x1200@85hz, I can't look at other computers anymore because my eyes hurt ;-).
If you get a G4, you will be happy. Guarenteed. Don't bother with a G3 (unless you are really pinching the pennies). And I wouldn't get an upgraded G3. Get as little as possable if you buy from apple, and upgrade.
Good luck with your computing adventures!
simX
Unofficial Mac Genius
Everyone has lots of good suggestions! I'm glad that everyone is as excited as ever to be a Mac user. 
I have a few things to add, though:
1. If you can afford it, I would buy a new Mac. This has many advantages: first, you know that you are going to get a high-quality built machine with parts that are factory-fresh and haven't been used. Along with this comes the standard 1-year warantee (which I think is too short -- Apple should give at least a 2 year warantee). Basically, you can be assured that you won't one day in the near future boot up your computer and find that one of your components is fried. The second advantage is that you get all of the latest software preinstalled: OS X 10.1.1 with all the security and installer updates, iTunes 2.0.3, AppleWorks 6.2.2, Mac OS 9.2.2, and if you get an iBook or iMac, you will get Cro-Mag Rally, Bugdom, Nanosaur (and maybe Otto Matic) preinstalled as well as AppleWorks. ALL new Macs come with iMovie and iTunes pre-installed, and if you get the top-of-the-line G4, you'll get iDVD as well. Lots of applications = lots of usefulness. Third advantage: they will last longer and be better able to deal with the latest applications and system software. You may be able to buy a used G4 for a lower price, but then again, it's probably not going to last as long as a new top-of-the-line Mac. The only exception to this rule might be dual-processor G4s, since OS X does take advantage of both processors. Also, you also expressed interest about OS X. Used Macs may NOT come with OS X. If you get a new Mac, you will be guaranteed to have OS X pre-installed for you.
2. You said that you can't stand the size of the iMac's screen, yet people still recommend the iBook. I should say that, yes, you probably get most bang for your buck from the iBook, but you also get a 12.1" diagonal screen (compared to the iMacs viewable 13.8" screen). If you can't stand the iMacs, I'm certain you REALLY won't like the iBook's screen. However, if you can live with that small screen, you can get the combo drive iBook (best value) for $1699 that has a 600 MHz processor, 128 MB RAM soldered onto the motherboard, and a 100 MHz system bus, not to mention the DVD playing and CD burning/reading. It definitely is a good system, but it is VERY limited in expandibility. You can basically only add RAM and an airport card. Everything else has to be external. The G4 towers would be much better if you want to add internal parts and stuff. The PowerBook is a VERY good deal too, and it has a VERY large screen for a laptop (15.2" viewable diagonally), and it packs quite a punch -- but again, expandibility is limited. It seems like the best for you would be a G4 tower and a third-party monitor.
3. If you do decide to go for a new Mac OR a used Mac, wait until after the MacWorld Expo this January 7-11 in San Francisco. This is VERY VERY IMPORTANT. Why? New PowerMac G4s and new iMacs (supposedly the form factor is going to change, so you might like the new ones ) are almost definitely going to come out. So if you're splurging and getting a new Mac, you can get a better computer for the same amount of money, OR you can get one of the old new Macs (the current G4 towers) for less money, and basically get the same quality. Often, Apple itself has some old towers stocked up in inventory, which they offer deals on. Many Apple retailers also offer good deals on recently-made-obsolete Mac. It's a win-win situation to wait for MacWorld. (NOTE: Also of interest -- PowerBooks and PowerMacs might come with AppleWorks pre-installed as of this MWSF, which is a BIG BIG plus. And there might even be a new 19" flat-panel monitor, which is really nice if you want that space, and also nice if you want to get a 17" for only $599. )
Hope this helps. ANY Mac you get will be a good deal, and will last a long time. Just make sure you look at what you are going to do on your computer, and see if any of them are not suited to do that, or if they are overkill. Once you rule out those Macs, choosing is much easier. Basically, if you're only browsing the web and doing word processing, I would sincerely NOT recommend getting a G4 tower or PowerBook. That would basically be a waste of computer power and money.
As to your last point, the Mac offers many advantages. UNIX apps can now run on OS X, meaning as soon as OS X came out, there were instantly MANY more Mac developers. Maya, one of the apps that was mainly used on UNIX (and Windows) was ported to Mac OS X, signifying that Mac OS X is really a viable platform. You get a much more intuitive platform, and you don't get forced into the crap that Microsoft slams down on you, like all the advertising in Windows XP. Plus, even though having a command line in Mac OS X poses a little more of a security threat, UNIX still is VERY secure, and is much more secure than Windows. You don't get NEARLY as many viruses, and you can even set up the built-in firewall that comes with OS X (provided you download a GUI utility to set it up, or you know the UNIX commands). The best advantage, I found, though, is that you can tinker with the command line and all the components of MacOS X, which makes it VERY customizable. We already have a theme application (MetaMorph X), as well as many tinkering apps (like TinkerTool) that can change the transparency of the Dock and Terminal windows, position of the Dock, pinning of the Dock, as well as many other things that Apple doesn't provide with a checkbox. Plus Mac OS X is rock-solid stable, making your computer uptime fly through the roof.
Even though Macs seem very pricey, you really do get what you pay for -- great quality, long lifetime, not to mention Macs are a joy to use. Plus they are much easier to use, which saves a BUNCH of time. The overall cost of ownership (including repairs, time spent troubleshooting, time before it's necessary to buy a new Mac) is lower on a Mac, rest assured.
Oh, by the way: would you mind coming back here and posting what your final decision is? I'm sure we'd all be interested.
I have a few things to add, though:1. If you can afford it, I would buy a new Mac. This has many advantages: first, you know that you are going to get a high-quality built machine with parts that are factory-fresh and haven't been used. Along with this comes the standard 1-year warantee (which I think is too short -- Apple should give at least a 2 year warantee). Basically, you can be assured that you won't one day in the near future boot up your computer and find that one of your components is fried. The second advantage is that you get all of the latest software preinstalled: OS X 10.1.1 with all the security and installer updates, iTunes 2.0.3, AppleWorks 6.2.2, Mac OS 9.2.2, and if you get an iBook or iMac, you will get Cro-Mag Rally, Bugdom, Nanosaur (and maybe Otto Matic) preinstalled as well as AppleWorks. ALL new Macs come with iMovie and iTunes pre-installed, and if you get the top-of-the-line G4, you'll get iDVD as well. Lots of applications = lots of usefulness. Third advantage: they will last longer and be better able to deal with the latest applications and system software. You may be able to buy a used G4 for a lower price, but then again, it's probably not going to last as long as a new top-of-the-line Mac. The only exception to this rule might be dual-processor G4s, since OS X does take advantage of both processors. Also, you also expressed interest about OS X. Used Macs may NOT come with OS X. If you get a new Mac, you will be guaranteed to have OS X pre-installed for you.
2. You said that you can't stand the size of the iMac's screen, yet people still recommend the iBook. I should say that, yes, you probably get most bang for your buck from the iBook, but you also get a 12.1" diagonal screen (compared to the iMacs viewable 13.8" screen). If you can't stand the iMacs, I'm certain you REALLY won't like the iBook's screen. However, if you can live with that small screen, you can get the combo drive iBook (best value) for $1699 that has a 600 MHz processor, 128 MB RAM soldered onto the motherboard, and a 100 MHz system bus, not to mention the DVD playing and CD burning/reading. It definitely is a good system, but it is VERY limited in expandibility. You can basically only add RAM and an airport card. Everything else has to be external. The G4 towers would be much better if you want to add internal parts and stuff. The PowerBook is a VERY good deal too, and it has a VERY large screen for a laptop (15.2" viewable diagonally), and it packs quite a punch -- but again, expandibility is limited. It seems like the best for you would be a G4 tower and a third-party monitor.
3. If you do decide to go for a new Mac OR a used Mac, wait until after the MacWorld Expo this January 7-11 in San Francisco. This is VERY VERY IMPORTANT. Why? New PowerMac G4s and new iMacs (supposedly the form factor is going to change, so you might like the new ones
) are almost definitely going to come out. So if you're splurging and getting a new Mac, you can get a better computer for the same amount of money, OR you can get one of the old new Macs (the current G4 towers) for less money, and basically get the same quality. Often, Apple itself has some old towers stocked up in inventory, which they offer deals on. Many Apple retailers also offer good deals on recently-made-obsolete Mac. It's a win-win situation to wait for MacWorld. (NOTE: Also of interest -- PowerBooks and PowerMacs might come with AppleWorks pre-installed as of this MWSF, which is a BIG BIG plus. And there might even be a new 19" flat-panel monitor, which is really nice if you want that space, and also nice if you want to get a 17" for only $599. )Hope this helps. ANY Mac you get will be a good deal, and will last a long time. Just make sure you look at what you are going to do on your computer, and see if any of them are not suited to do that, or if they are overkill. Once you rule out those Macs, choosing is much easier. Basically, if you're only browsing the web and doing word processing, I would sincerely NOT recommend getting a G4 tower or PowerBook. That would basically be a waste of computer power and money.
As to your last point, the Mac offers many advantages. UNIX apps can now run on OS X, meaning as soon as OS X came out, there were instantly MANY more Mac developers. Maya, one of the apps that was mainly used on UNIX (and Windows) was ported to Mac OS X, signifying that Mac OS X is really a viable platform. You get a much more intuitive platform, and you don't get forced into the crap that Microsoft slams down on you, like all the advertising in Windows XP. Plus, even though having a command line in Mac OS X poses a little more of a security threat, UNIX still is VERY secure, and is much more secure than Windows. You don't get NEARLY as many viruses, and you can even set up the built-in firewall that comes with OS X (provided you download a GUI utility to set it up, or you know the UNIX commands). The best advantage, I found, though, is that you can tinker with the command line and all the components of MacOS X, which makes it VERY customizable. We already have a theme application (MetaMorph X), as well as many tinkering apps (like TinkerTool) that can change the transparency of the Dock and Terminal windows, position of the Dock, pinning of the Dock, as well as many other things that Apple doesn't provide with a checkbox. Plus Mac OS X is rock-solid stable, making your computer uptime fly through the roof.
Even though Macs seem very pricey, you really do get what you pay for -- great quality, long lifetime, not to mention Macs are a joy to use. Plus they are much easier to use, which saves a BUNCH of time. The overall cost of ownership (including repairs, time spent troubleshooting, time before it's necessary to buy a new Mac) is lower on a Mac, rest assured.
Oh, by the way: would you mind coming back here and posting what your final decision is? I'm sure we'd all be interested.
simX
Unofficial Mac Genius
You're right, it was from October. It's annoying when a thread is reactivated (like that post your OS X 10.1 desktop pics thread) -- I think threads should be locked after a month or so of inactivity, because a lot of times, the question isn't really applicable anymore (as in this case). Also, if you want to deal with the same topic, you can just start a new thread.
Dinkmeister
Registered
Hi,
Sorry that I didn't reply sooner I haven't bought a mac yet as I do not have money to spend on it yet, but I have made a decision as to what I am going to get.
I have decided that the G4 733 system from apple seems very nice. I am probably going to get the base memory since apple charges way to much for their memory I'll buy a bunch of memory from another company or something. It seems its much cheaper that way.
The one problem I have is that I have a 4 speaker system (Klipsch Promedia 4.1) so I'll have to get a stereo y-splitter hooked up to the headphone jack but I am worried about the quality of the sound if I do that. I don't feel like buying new speakers since these ones were pretty expensive. Hopefully that will work fine.
Thanks for your replies
Sorry that I didn't reply sooner
I haven't bought a mac yet as I do not have money to spend on it yet, but I have made a decision as to what I am going to get. I have decided that the G4 733 system from apple seems very nice. I am probably going to get the base memory since apple charges way to much for their memory
I'll buy a bunch of memory from another company or something. It seems its much cheaper that way.The one problem I have is that I have a 4 speaker system (Klipsch Promedia 4.1) so I'll have to get a stereo y-splitter hooked up to the headphone jack but I am worried about the quality of the sound if I do that. I don't feel like buying new speakers since these ones were pretty expensive. Hopefully that will work fine.
Thanks for your replies
splitting your audio should work just fine. Depending on how those speakers listen to the signal, splitting the signal may mean that the sound is a little queiter than not splitting the sound. Or it could make no difference at all.
There are decent audio cards out there for the mac, but usually people have those 4 speaker setups for games, and mac Games don't tend to look for a 4 speaker setup, su Radio Shack and a y splitter should answer your problem rather handily.
There are decent audio cards out there for the mac, but usually people have those 4 speaker setups for games, and mac Games don't tend to look for a 4 speaker setup, su Radio Shack and a y splitter should answer your problem rather handily.
tagliatelle
_____________________
3 yes
kilowatt
mach-o mach-o man
About that audio...
If you face two speakers in fount of you, and two behind you (pointing towards you), you may want to consider swapping the phase of the rear speakers, which can be accomplished by reversing the polarity of each rear speaker.
this is just because when you face two speakers at each other, the sound can cancel out, which doesn't sound too good. Also, when the reversed sound reflects off something in fount of you (which it does - thats why you can hear it ;-) , its phase will be corrected by the reflection, and lead to a fuller sound.
And (the beat goes on...), if you turn around, the phase will be correct, as if you were at the concert or something, and turned around.
Yeah, this thread has really lost its subject now... oh well.. I'm an audio dude, couldn't help it.
If you face two speakers in fount of you, and two behind you (pointing towards you), you may want to consider swapping the phase of the rear speakers, which can be accomplished by reversing the polarity of each rear speaker.
this is just because when you face two speakers at each other, the sound can cancel out, which doesn't sound too good. Also, when the reversed sound reflects off something in fount of you (which it does - thats why you can hear it ;-) , its phase will be corrected by the reflection, and lead to a fuller sound.
And (the beat goes on...), if you turn around, the phase will be correct, as if you were at the concert or something, and turned around.
Yeah, this thread has really lost its subject now... oh well.. I'm an audio dude, couldn't help it.
vanguard
Registered
I'm not an audio expert but this seems wrong to me. It doesn't have to bounce off something for me to hear. If I stand in a field (open plane) and somebody behind me says my name I can here him. It would seem like a decent portion of the sound would be coming straight from the speakers to my ears.
Any thoughts?
simX
Unofficial Mac Genius
I would tend to agree with vanguard. I don't think you need to do anything to the speakers behind you. I was once working late at my former junior high, and I remember starting the exact same song at the exact same time on two G4 cubes -- one in front and one behind. DAAAAMN that sounded good. This just illustrates the point that you don't need to do this -- although what do I know.. I just use iTunes and my iPod.
This just illustrates the point that you don't need to do this -- although what do I know.. I just use iTunes and my iPod.
kilowatt
mach-o mach-o man
Yeah, its true, sound does pass through your body and your ear parts. But if you stuck a sound-proof wall behind you, and someone behind you said something, it would have to reflect. Its simply physics.
As for not having to reverse the polarity, its true, you don't *have to* but someone try this, you'll see, it sounds a lot better, and you will have more bass.
Perhaps with smaller speakers it isn't such an issue, but if dude has 12" 3 way speakers, there will be a substantial difference.
As for not having to reverse the polarity, its true, you don't *have to* but someone try this, you'll see, it sounds a lot better, and you will have more bass.
Perhaps with smaller speakers it isn't such an issue, but if dude has 12" 3 way speakers, there will be a substantial difference.