New Cars - Help Wanted

[CaptainQuark]

Hmmm… Think some differentiation is needed here between "Asian" and "Japanese".

Japanese cars are excellent! I drive one myself: a 1995 Honda Accord Coupé 2.0 Auto. Fantastic!

"Asian" cars could include such disasters as the Korean Hyundai, "Chevrolet" and Ssang Yong, and the Malaysian Proton.

 

[bbloke]

Hmmm… Think some differentiation is needed here between "Asian" and "Japanese".

Japanese cars are excellent! I drive one myself: a 1995 Honda Accord Coupé 2.0 Auto. Fantastic!

"Asian" cars could include such disasters as the Korean Hyundai, "Chevrolet" and Ssang Yong, and the Malaysian Proton.

Fair point, I just kept referring to "Asian" rather than "Japanese" as I'm not always very sure where companies are actually based these days, in the era of multinationals! I thought, without really having looked into them too much, that some Korean cars might be OK. Is Chevrolet really Asian?

 

[CaptainQuark]

I did put Chevrolet in quotes, because Daewoo was bought up by General Motos, so Daewoo cars are now being sold – in the UK at least – with a Chevrolet badge.

 

[bbloke]

I did put Chevrolet in quotes, because Daewoo was bought up by General Motos, so Daewoo cars are now being sold – in the UK at least – with a Chevrolet badge.

Ah, OK, that's interesting to know. I knew something had happened to one of the Korean manufacturers but was not sure what it was! I also started reading the Top Gear survey, now that I've been intrigued...

Of the top 20 models, 15 are built by Japanese manufacturers, while 11 of the bottom 20 are French. Build quality and customer care apparently remain major problems for the French PSA group, with Citroens and Peugeots scoring abysmally in just about every category but handling. ... German manufacturers, once the epitome of solid reliability, remain on the slide, although last year's most dismal duffer, the moribund Mercedes M-Class, is displaced by no fewer than four fragile French marques.

At least the traditional whipping boys, the Italians, show varied success, with a couple of positives in there. Fiat remains off the pace, but the Alfa Romeo 147 and 156 show improvements in both quality and comfort.

Meanwhile, South Korean car maker Hyundai is on the up. You rated its products above Audi's, and only slightly behind BMW's.

1 Lexus 93.2
2 Skoda 91.5
3 Honda 90.0
4 Mazda 88.9
5 Toyota 88.4
6 Subaru 88.3
7 Mini 88.0
8 Porsche 87.1
9 Jaguar 87.0
10 BMW 86.4
11 Hyundai 86.1
12 Audi 84.9
13 Volvo 85.3
14 Saab 84.1
15 Suzuki 83.9
16 Seat 83.6
17 Lotus 83.5
18 Smart 83.5
19 Nissan 82.6
20 Chrysler 82.2

Quite interesting stuff for me, as it was not always what I expected. I was surprised that, for instance, the VW Polo was one of the most unreliable cars in another survey.

 

[chemistry_geek]

Hehehe

I was going to keep out of it, not really being a car expert and having only started driving recently. I did find, however, in various car reviews that it was consistently the Asian cars (Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc.) that did very well in terms of driver satisfaction and in terms of reliability.

I was amazed when chemistry_geek said Asian cars tended to fall apart, as this seems to be the opposite of what I have heard and witnessed. Then again, I was also surprised by the expectation that cars should last 170,000 miles+, as most cars I know (regardless of manufacturer) would fall apart by then. Then again, I've had the impression that driving in Europe can be tougher on cars than driving in the US.

But, hey, what do I know, I'm new to this!

Having worked in the chemical industry for the last ten years, and working for various companies that not only produce materials, products, and perform research, I speak from *REAL* experience. Chemetall-Oakite, formerly a division of Metallgesellschaft, a large German company specializing in materials chemistry, metals, and anti-corrosion technology, is the sole supplier of corrosion inhibitors for General Motors, BMW, Dailmer-Chrysler/Mercedes Benz, and many other smaller companies (Kia may now be a customer as well). Chemetall-Oakite has been the leader in corrosion inhibitor technology for the last 15 years. This technology is focused on very sophisticated inorganic chemistry. Paint technology, on the other hand, is based on organic chemistry and now polymer technology. And the twain shall meet at an interface, that can fail, usually the fault of the organic chemist not making the primer paint, base coat, and final coat not performing to specification. Inorganic corrosion inhibitor technology has been around for over 60 years.

In the mid 1980s, GM seemed to have a problem with paint flaking off its cars, leaving the primer paint visible underneath. This was not an engineering issue with GM cars, it was a third party supplier issue, PPG, the supplier of the paint, decided to skimp and save money by not putting as much UV-absorber in the paint. The UV radiation from the Sun destroyed the paint, causing it to flake off the vehicle. GM sued and won I might add.

Regarding American cars that have performed well, my 1992 Saturn SL2, which I bought brand new in September 1991 is still running strongly with 260,000 miles. It burns a little oil, but it runs flawlessly, is not rusting underneath the car anywhere, all because of superior corrosion inhibtor technology from Chemetall-Oakite. The only place where it is starting to rust is on the hood, where stone chips have broken through the paint. I might add that Chemeall-Oakite is also the most expensive corrosion inhibitor supplier in the industry - you get what you pay for.