New Mac purchase

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kovachjon

Registered
Hi all,

I am currently running two Mac G4's with not much memory, but with dual processors. I don't know much about them, as they were bought before I started working here, and now I am out to replace them.
I want to buy G5's, but I don't really know where to start. Can I get any help? Please!?
We do all print production work here - very little design work. We run all the latest versions of all the software you can imagine. In short, I need a pretty powerful machine, and I need two of them.
Also, I'd like to get flat panel monitors, but not sure which way to go. Any suggestions there? I'd like to color calibrate them for accuracy, but 100% accuracy is not critical. Just close enough. We spot check all colors on paper.
Thanks very much for any help and/or pointers.

Thanks,
Jon
 
You don't want to get stuck on the sinking "PowerPC" boat, and the Intel machines are faster anyways (Perhaps not so with rosetta, but that problem will be gone in a few months). Depending on your budget, a single or dual core mac mini with a 3rd-party flats creen would be the cheapest option. A more expensive option would be the iMacs, which include a flats creen. If you are thinking about getting two iMacs though, think about a Macbook Pro and a mac mini. You gain mobility, and for about the same price as two iMacs.

If you must have a G5, save some money. Get a refurbished iMac, and save a couple hundred bucks.
 
Why is the "PowerPC" boat sinking? Are they being phased out?
I heard that the Intel machines are not as fast or as good as they make them out to be - especially for graphics applications.... is that true?
What is Rosetta? (a link to read about it, possibly?)
Would a Mac Mini or an iMac really be enough power to push the apps that I run? I usually run all the CS2 apps, and Quark, Distiller, etc. etc... not all at once, but I do hop between them quite often, sometimes 3-4 apps at once... Plue email, iCal, and a few other miscellaneous apps.
Well, I can't have one desktop and one laptop, though it would be nice. The new setup will be for two people, not just myself....
I don't know if I MUST HAVE a G5, but I definitely want a significant upgrade from what I have now.
 
Put in another gigabyte or two of RAM would be my first tip. Just to test the machines thoroughly...

Rosetta is the PPC-emulation present on intel Macs which lets you run non-universal apps like Adobe's. They of course run a bit slower than native counterparts (not available yet). Clear, ne? Emulation. Never as fast as the real thing. (However, Rosetta is _usable_ at least.)

If you need the "real" thing, I'd wait with replacing the machines until intel Mac Pros are out and the software in universal binaries (i.e. native on intel). For now: Get RAM. It'll do wonders. You say they don't have much. What do they have? 256 MB? 512?
 
The machines I'm running now have 512mb of RAM in them. I would really like to replace them, as they are having major problems lately with bugginess and general, overall freezing, crashing, not responding, etc. etc. I have tried to clean them up, but am still having problems.
Would you maybe install more RAM, reformat, and reinstall everything? I don't know if that would be A.) easy enough or B.) worth the time. I know with IBM's, stuff can still linger and cause problems even after a reformat, and it can take all day. Which I've done more than a few times....
Ah, so Rosetta is something that enables the new Intel Macs to run Adobe products, basically?
Any idea on when Intel Mac Pros will be released?
 
Not Adobe products specifically, but software written for Mac OS X on the PowerPC processor.

intel Mac Pros: August 2006 earliest is the guess, because of intel's processor roadmap.

And I'd *definitely* upgrade the RAM and completely reinstall one machine before throwing them away.
 
fryke said:
And I'd *definitely* upgrade the RAM and completely reinstall one machine before throwing them away.
Click to expand...

Don't throw them away though!

Seriously, those machines could easily fetch at least 500 bucks on eBay, perhaps more, depending on the processor.
 
Everyone's advising against getting a G5, but if you want to save money, why not get an earlier generation G5? It's going to be a lot faster than your G4 machines, and it has a large RAM capacity, which it sounds like you may need. You might want to consider a RAID or maybe a 10,000 RPM Raptor drive to improve HDD performance, which your applications are probably dependent upon.

Alternatively, you can buy G4 processor ugrade kits from third-party vendors. I can't vouch for these personally, but they'd offer a speed increase at low cost. But as you said earlier, it might not be worth the time.
 
i have a 466/g4 with 1 gig ram and am running ilife05 just fine. ram makes a big difference in performance. some of the rendering takes a while though, but everything else is acceptable. i also don't feel the way others do about g5s. if you need to upgrade now, get g5s, the best you can afford and you'll be fine. if you can afford to wait another year, max the ram on your g4s, then get the intel based pro macs when they come out. as far as what to do with the g4s, i'm sure there are lots of people that would love to use them, and would buy them from you. i've only had mine for less then a year, and will be using it until it dies, or i have saved enough money for another newer used mac.
 
I just mean that intel Mac Pros might only be 6 months away, and if you can live with those G4s if you put more RAM in them (and I believe you do), I think that'd be the much better way to go. The G5s, while faster than the G4s, need much RAM, too, so they'd be a bigger investment. And in a year or so, those G5s will seem as slow as memory-upgraded G4s, anyway. That's why I would plan on buying intel Mac Pros later and live with the G4s now. They're not _that_ bad, you know...
 
So would I get an early generation G5, load it up with RAM, and then wait for the Intel Pros to come out? How much would that cost me?
What kind of apps are dependent on HD speed? I am guessing graphics applications?
I am more and more considering just upping the RAM, and reinstalling the OS and software - even though it's a lot.
My only predicament is that one of my employees is running a G3, OS9... I want to switch her over to OSX (which she is VERY reluctant to do for some reason).... and she keeps crashing her machine, loading up mega amounts of fonts, crashing programs, etc., etc.... and constantly blaming the machine. Any suggestions as to what I can do there? An upgrade kit, possibly?
Is there anywhere online I can find out about these upgrade kits? I've never seen them before, or know anything about them.
Also, where is a good place to get prices on RAM? Is there a specific type of RAM I need to buy? If so, how can I find out what I need?
Questions galore.
Thanks for all the answers.
 
where did my post go?

I would advise against getting an Intel Mac. the software just isn't there yet, and might not be for over a year (Adobe won't do anything until CS3, and we've only just got CS2), at which point you've also got 1st revision bugs. if you spent the money on 2 Quad G5's, they would still be really fast 2-3 years down the line, and you wouldn't have to buy completely new sets of software. as and when you do, it'd likely be compatible with intel chips when you upgrade to them in about 4-5 years

Also, with the G5's being 64bit, you can stick up 16gb of ram in them, when ram prices drop. 16gb! you can't do that with any other mac currently available.

it would be the smoothest transition, and the fastest machine on the block, which they will be for a while.
 
It would be a hard transition to make to Intels right now, huh? I am gathering, from what I am hearing, that the software won't come around for a long time.... and in that long time, I might just be better off getting G5's, then when they are outdated, the Intel Mac Pros will be all bug free?
 
I would at least wait until the pro macs (or whatever the intel powermacs will be called) are available. I think that the macbook pro is only slightly slower than a powermac quad (!), so who knows? The intel powermac could have reasonable speeds for graphics work under rosetta if the processor is fast enough. Once the intel powermac is released, the pro apps will probably be out soon, because most of their customers use powermacs.
So, I would load up your G4's with RAM, and maybe even get a processor upgrade from Sonnet. They have Dual 1.8 GHZ upgrade cards, which, depending on what you have now, would be a significant boost. They aren't giving them away, but it's cheaper than a new system. Also, it goes without saying, but if you still have the original gfx card, consider getting a new AGP graphics card. I noticed more of a speed boost with my powermac when I installed a new graphics card than when I installed a new processor.
 
Went to a Mac store last night, and talked to a business consultant.
He was very adament about not getting an Intel machine. He said that the processor just wouldn't be used to it's fullest potential until all the software has caught up with it.
He recommended getting a G5 2.3 ghz with about 2gig of RAM.
How does this system sound to you all? For pre-press and production work - lots of distilling files, and lots of Adobe software and Quark use.
I also spoke to him about getting dual displays. We agreed that getting two 20" displays would do much better than getting one 23" display, and it would only be 200 dollars more. My question on that is - are Cinema Displays the ONLY way to go? Or is there a cheaper and/or better alternative? We do color correct our monitors, but don't do much soft proofing. We like to have an accurate representation of what our printouts will look like, but don't actively use it for customer proofs. All of our color matching happens on paper - paper proofs, swatches, etc... So color accuracy is not severly important, but we would like some higher end monitors. Not the El Cheapo brand.
So that is where I'm at now. I'm right around 5000 dollars per machine - but would like to come down from there if possible.
Thanks again!
 
kovachjon said:
Went to a Mac store last night, and talked to a business consultant.
He was very adament about not getting an Intel machine. He said that the processor just wouldn't be used to it's fullest potential until all the software has caught up with it.
He recommended getting a G5 2.3 ghz with about 2gig of RAM.
How does this system sound to you all? For pre-press and production work - lots of distilling files, and lots of Adobe software and Quark use.
I also spoke to him about getting dual displays. We agreed that getting two 20" displays would do much better than getting one 23" display, and it would only be 200 dollars more. My question on that is - are Cinema Displays the ONLY way to go? Or is there a cheaper and/or better alternative? We do color correct our monitors, but don't do much soft proofing. We like to have an accurate representation of what our printouts will look like, but don't actively use it for customer proofs. All of our color matching happens on paper - paper proofs, swatches, etc... So color accuracy is not severly important, but we would like some higher end monitors. Not the El Cheapo brand.
So that is where I'm at now. I'm right around 5000 dollars per machine - but would like to come down from there if possible.
Thanks again!
Click to expand...
That system would defiantly suit your needs, it would leave your G4's in the dust for sure. Again, the intel powermacs will probably leave the G5's in the dust. It's not possible to wait forever for the latest and greatest technology: there's always going to be something new. Still, the intel powermac will be released this year, and along with it, lots of universal programs. Major software companies like Adobe have most of their professional customers using powermacs, so they will be racing to get the software out on universal when the intels are released, or soon after. I'd say if the G4's get the job done, feed them some RAM. It does wonders. Or, buy one powerPC powermac, then one intel powermac (if your still getting two systems). The switch to intel will be completed by the end of 2006. The intel powermac will probably be released before that, and so will a lot of universal apps. If you can wait, do it. If you can't, get a G5. Even if whatever program you need isn't in universal, it will probably run faster than your G4's, even in rosetta. Sure, the G5 will be faster if there is no universal apps for the intel powermac. But for how long? A few months, at best. Once the universal apps are released, it's over.
Apple displays are very high quality, I've seen nothing but good reviews. I don't own one, though, so I can't guarantee that. You can use something like this to calibrate color.
 
I am just wondering how long, exactly, it will be until the Intels come out, all the software bugs are written out, and how long that transition will take. Also, just HOW MUCH of a speed increase are we talking here? Are we talking minutes, or milliseconds?

What about the Dell 2005FPW displays? I've heard good things about them.

I use an X-Rite Pulse (DTP-20) to color correct.
 
Steve said that all the intels will be out by the end of 2006. It's probably a good assumption to say that everything that is going to be universal will be transfered to it by 2007, at the very most. Of course, companies will want to transfer before that. For one thing, what if another company with a similar app transfers first? Valuable customers could abandon one company, and swich. New customers would obviously choose the applications that will work with their computer. Now, I don't know how fast the intels will be, no one does. However, they aren't going to be slower, and they will be able to run the next generation of apple applications: intel apps. Universal can't last forever (but it will probably last a while). Now, say that someone bought a PowerPC iMac today, and another person bought an intel iMac. Five years down the road, they decide to sell them. Who's is going to sell higher? One with obsolete technology, or one that will work with current software, only a bit slowly. True, selling value of a computer isn't a big deal if you got enough use out of it, but it can be a couple hundred bucks.
I'd say wait until the intel powermac is released, or at the most till the end of 2006. If your apps are still not universal, get a G5. If you want to save a few hundred bucks, get a refurbished one. My dad got a refurbished iMac: there wasn't even a fingerprint on it. Plus, it comes with the usual 1 year warrantee. They probably test the refurbs more than they do their new machines anyways, I haven't heard of one bad experience with a refurb.

As for the monitor, I read one bad review:
This is a monitor I have been trying desperately to love, look at the specs, amazing resolutions, pivot display, clean design,super fast refresh of 16ms, it seeminly has it all. What this monitor is missing is quality control from the manufacturing divison of Dell. I am on my second replacement now on dell's dime, and they seem to only get worse with each delivery. I myself play alot of games with dark environments, i,e, Doom 3 etc. and the backlight bleed is an utter showstopper, the screen seems to flare out whenever I enter a dark area and is very distracting. I also do alot of cad and graphics work, and the backlight is a distraction then as well if I am working on dark images etc.

If you don't play games or do any graphics work where you use a black background then this monitor is probably a steal for you. The price is dropping every day, and can now be had for just a bit more then a regular aspect 19" monitor with a much lower native resolution screen and slower response time.

Other monitors with similar specs and size are selling for more then twice this baby's pricetag. When surfing the web, or playing games that are not in dark environments the monitor is simply stunning. the image is ultra sharp and responsive, and color rendition is top notch. the specs for this monitor match the highly acclaimed Cinemaview monitor from Apple, but the similarity seems to stop in the specs, Dell clearly has some manuf errors to fix before this is an award winning monitor,and note my monitors are labeled with manuf stamps from May and June 2005, so don't believe they have fixed the backlight issue, they clearly have not!!!
Click to expand...
 
Will there be a time that applications will no longer be supported under G5 - at least a time that I should be worried about? I mean, one year down the road, will apps start to be Intel apps ONLY - not compatible with PowerPC?
How maxed out can Mac Minis and iMacs get, as far as processor speed and RAM go?
Selling price is not that important to me - we usually hand Macs down within the company, until they are totally obsolete and we couldn't get a dime for them.
So........ there is no such thing as a Intel tower, right now, correct?
Refurbished - check. I wrote that down. I'll have to look into that. Would I buy that direct from Apple, or are there stores that sell them online?

.... interesting about that monitor. I wonder how dark is dark, and if that would affect soft-proofing..........

Thanks.
 
They will probably have the universal apps for a long time. Long enough that any mac you buy now would be compatible for at least 5 years. Programmers will start to write intel-only apps once the PowerPC audience has diminished. Refurbs are at the apple store website, just look for the red tag on the right hand menu. Cheap systems, like minis, go fast, but there is always a ton of powermacs and such. Mac mini and iMac intels go up to 2 GB of RAM, the PowerPC intel goes up to 2.5 GB. The intel iMac has a duo 2 Ghz processor, the mini has a duo 1.66. The PowerPC version has a 2.1 ghz processor.
There is no such thing as an apple intel tower.. yet. It's due before the end of the year..
Again, if you need power now, or if they take a long time to make the apps universal, get a G5. It's a great system (It's just that the intels are faster, so consider them too)
 
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