Now is the time to stop acting passively...

Actually by default Omniweb has itself disguised as Netscape. I've been all through the preferences, you've missed my point - there's no reason to make a site run for 1 platform or one browser. It's contrary to the entire point of the internet. Yet many sites favor just one platform/browser combination... no matter how much messing around in your browser prefs that you do. BTW, the problem with my online bank.. doesn't work with ANYTHING but Netscape 6.1 or 6.2 under X, or 4.x under OS 9 (not classic) but works under any browser you pick for windows - even opera. Lame lame lame.
 
you're right, we (i) weren't listening very well. of course you didn't make your point nearly as eloquently the first time. but your point is a good one with which i completely agree.!!:)
 
Originally posted by Jadey
There's no reason a web site should only work on one specific platform or one specific browser, but lots of sites are like this. Using X instead of 9 in most cases won't work either - they want you to use Windows. This is entirely in conflict with how the web is supposed to work - platform independently.
Click to expand...

Hrm, yeah, I can see how that is unclear :p
 
Originally posted by beef
what about the hardwares we got that don't work yet... are we supposed to throw these away and buy (if there's any) ones that work under OS X?
Click to expand...

YES.
Unless you need this hardware for your living, or for school, then get OS X and ditch the hardware. Save up money for new hardware that works with X. In the meantime, tell your friends "no, I don't have that anymore because I went to X. I'm saving up for a new one."

My digital camera only works in 9. As soon as Dreamweaver (or equivalent) and Flash come out for OS X, that camera's getting sold. Even if I can't buy a new digital camera for OS X, I don't care. I'm deleting OS 9 the second I have the software I need to make my living, forget the camera.

What if there is no hardware for X? Well then live without it, or find an alternative. What kind of hardware is nonexistant for X anyway?

But we gotta get rid of 9, even it's a little painful. The same way if you are totally constipated, even with a spinal-tap lincoln log, you still shit that shit out, even if it's hard. Same with 9. Gotta get rid of it, and jump to X as soon as you can!!!!!!!

-solrac-
 
ok, after clarrifying with me that you aren't really trying to get everybody to stop using 9, that's only what you are doing, you go back to ranting about how people must do it.

Your advice is just plain naive. as a mac user, i have long lived in a world where nobody made something i wanted for my computer. now some of those things exist for mac. I do not recommend to anyone that they give up what they have waited for just to support osx. this doesn't make sense. I will not give up my brand new digital camera. i will not give up my favorite newsreader. i will not give up anything. I will not make osx into a self imposed punishment for being a mac user. i will continue to take advantage of the beauty of having 2 systems.

as for your last analolgy, that is also not how i would handle the problem. i would eat more grains and take a laxative before i would punish myself in such a way.

:cool:
 
Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
ok, after clarrifying with me that you aren't really trying to get everybody to stop using 9, that's only what you are doing, you go back to ranting about how people must do it.
Click to expand...

Well actually, I think I'd be happy if everyone booted into X as their default system.

But just as everyone seems to say "I cannot use X, because this or that is not available for it", so I say that "You CAN and WILL adopt X, and abandon your dependance on 9, for the rewards of your conversion will far outweigh the hollow satisfactions injected into you every time you go back and fall into the shadows of the old ways."

X will assimilate you. Resistance is futile.

I would rather cease a grey and drab existance indefinetely tethered to OS 9. Give me X or give me death!

OS 9 is cool.

-solrac-
 
I dont get some of you OS X super jealots.
Why do you need to enforce OS X on people that dont want to use it yet for one reason or another ?

DO *I* use OS X?
yes I do

DO I use it all the time ?
Hell no

Do I use it as my main OS ?
hell no.

Why ?
Because I cant do what I want to do with it.


COntrary to some people's beliefs a computer is a tool. OS 9 helps me do what I want to do. OS X doesnt yet. I cant be productive in OS X because it doesnt have what I need, so I am using OS 9 as my main OS till OS X does have what I need.

I am trying to make OS X more of what I want it to be by tinkering around with it on the weekends, but it's like the "good old days" when guys would rebuild their car's engines on the weekends.

Until OS X can be the productive OS that people want it to be people wont use it. I understand that companies wont develop for OS X if it aint used, but this is a dilemma... to bend over backwords to accomondate OS X or not to? THis is a personal choice that most should choose to make and not have people pointing guns on their foreheads saying "get OS X or else"



Admiral
 
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
COntrary to some people's beliefs a computer is a tool. OS 9 helps me do what I want to do. OS X doesnt yet. I cant be productive in OS X because it doesnt have what I need, so I am using OS 9 as my main OS till OS X does have what I need.
Click to expand...

What if X does have what you need and you just haven't done all you could to make it work for you?

Like, what if you needed photoshop. Now that photoshop 7 beta is out, you could download your illegal beta copy and use it, and stop booting into OS 9 (or in my case, Ed, delete OS 9). But you don't download the beta because it is against your ethics.

Well in this case, to faciliate adoption of X... you must make some compromises.

1) Kill morals. Pirate X software or X betas if money or lack of software is keeping you from X.

2) Give up hardware. If hardware is keeping you from X, just give it up. Use X as your main OS and know that you have to reboot into 9 to play with your hardware (like my digital camera). So long as you can do your work in X.

3) Force yourself to get used to it. What if you don't like the aqua theme? Well just make yourself get used to it because you know how much better OS X is. Or if you know how, get the Sosumi theme, looks more like OS 9.

There are probably more things you could do to get X.

But too many people are waiting for X to come to them, when they could forge a path to X themselves, NOW.... (if they just work a little at it).

-solrac-
 
Lets see....
My hardware is partially keeping me from full OS X but if it works why give it up? I paid good money to make it me and it works! Hey if you have money to give me to buy a new G4 tower, I wont say no ;)


Lets see... Greek input (no symbol doesnt cut it)...where is it ? Get me that and I will switch RIGHT NOW!


Full screen DVD play mode...
more optimized software (not like the sorry arse VPC5 attempt that everyone is complaining about)

Photoshop? I could care less. I could get my job to pay for it if I wanted to. I use it yes, but it is not in the core of what I do.


Kill morals ? Dont think so. I am on the way of becoming a computer programmer. I wouldnt want people getting what I worked for for free. Labor is valued in this country. You want free? Go to a communist country :p

As for forcing myself.... if that was the philosophy of computing I would have forced myself onto the wintel badnwaggon a long time ago. What makes the mac great is that it's easy to use, intuative and it has no probs. At the moment it is not ALL that for ME. I want a few more things before I go full time. You cant force people because then people will jsut give you the finger and abandon the platform. Thats not the way to make friends in this business

As for chipping away at OS X and making it more functional -- I am working on it, but this engine aint rebuilt yet.

Admiral
 
Good point aak.

Of course, we need to support apple, but we will not be supporting apple in the long run with a windows-like attitude.

We can't ditch our morals, our beliefs, etc. Most windows users have done just that - they use pirated versions of an operating system they hate. Lets be honest, few windows users truly like their operating system as much as I like Mac OS X on my G4.

I don't use microsoft programs because it is against my policy (some would say my religion the way I wash my hands after I use a pc...). And I love that omniweb underlines the word microsoft when I type it... as if there's something wrong with it. (of course, it underlines OmniWeb, too).

If you can't afford photoshop, final cut pro, or whatever it is, you probably don't really need it (ie, you have a JOB). And if you believe you really do need that stuff, there are alternitatve routes one can take.. gimp, imovie, photo shop lite, etc.

Lets not create another morpheus-driven platform. Support the economy, and BUY your software/media.

Allready, three cd stores (the only cd stores) in the mall have closed due to music piracy. And with the new apple stores, and the failing clinton-durrived (sp?) economy, its in our best interests as macintosh users to buy our soft ware.

Imagine if you work for Photoshop, and apple has persuaded you to create photoshop for mac os x. (Not that that is what happened, but it probably has for many software creators.) And imagine if for every legal copy you sell, two are pirated (as it is today in the music business). It is:
1) depressing
2) costs you money
3) discouraging (yes, like #1, I know)
4) stupid.

Its just utterly stupid to think that pirating software in the end helps you. With the stuff going on today, our kids may buy computers with sound cards that monitor for pirated music. And software may be engineered to the individual - require retnal scans and stuff to verify you are the person who purchased the software (anyone think this will happen besides me?). Oh, and hackers will prosper form outlandish hard ware lock bypass schemes.
 
ok solrac, i think you're missing the point that probably 80% or more of us here at this little cyber bar & grill do use osx as a default - with classic. We're still booting back to 9 from time to time to do what can only be done there. another 10-15% are using 9 as their default and booting back to osx to enjoy it and learn more about it. the rest are hanging around waiting to see when the biggest bugs are worked out. this hasn't happened yet. none of us know everthing about the new way of doing things. everybody here is learning as they go. some are way ahead of others, but no one has mastered the entire set of variables yet. obviously apple hasn't either or we wouldn't need updates.

yes , drive 10 will do a pretty job of repairing things fsck misses. but how do you defragment and optimize your drive? or do you ? i can tell you now that if you don't do this every so often, your osx is going to eventually die on you. caput. works like a snail then just can't find all the pieces. is that a price you are willing to pay just to snub the second best os in the world? of course you might thrash your harddrive into oblivion first. but that's ok, right? you'll just go buy three more, right?

Please champion the cause of osx. it's a good cause. but don't sound ignorant in the process. you will only turn possible converts away thru this. truth is something you can recognise when it's whispered. shouting just makes people deaf to your message. let people open their own eyes and see their own way. follow your own heart, but don't expect others to bleed for you.
 
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
Lets see... Greek input (no symbol doesnt cut it)...where is it ? Get me that and I will switch RIGHT NOW!

...

Kill morals ? Dont think so. I am on the way of becoming a computer programmer. I wouldnt want people getting what I worked for for free. Labor is valued in this country. You want free? Go to a communist country :p

As for forcing myself.... if that was the philosophy of computing I would have forced myself onto the wintel badnwaggon a long time ago.

Admiral
Click to expand...

well you seem to need Greek to get your work done so obviously you have to wait. But if there was a greek input method that worked in X, but you liked the 9 version better, you should switch to X anyway.

As for killing morals... you should still pirate if you have no money. If you are a computer programmer who feels bad in your heart... just modify the rule! Pirate the software, but save money at the same time to pay for it when you can. Then at least you could switch to X today!!

As for forcing yourself.. it's not the same as the windows world. No... it's different because you know you want X. You just have to make it happen less passively.

That's all I'm saying...

of course some people have to wait, no choice. I'm only talking about the people who could find a different solution and get into X now.

-solrac-
 
well, greek on OS 9 is a pain in the arse, the reason why is that it is not unicode (like in OS X) so making web pages (and greek documents) is highly problematic for non mac users and mac users w/o the greek pack.


Forcing yourself to go on OS X is no different than forcing yourself onto windows, solaris, be etc etc. Forcing means lack of volition (will), thus you cant force someone onto OS X because they want it.

If people wanted to be on OS X fulltime (people that have actually used OS X) they would be on it. The fact of the matter is that something is lacking for them, and that something isnt a minor thing like "oh dang I dont like the menu system" -- its probably something deeper (not that there arent people that still want the apple menu but anyway)


Admiral
 
Once Final Cut arrives and Indesign 2 and GoLive 6, I'm all OS X except for music. But since I only do music exclusively when I'm doing it, I don't mind booting to OS 9 for that. It's not that big a deal.

I appreciate solrac's enthusiasm, I really do. I'm bailing on 9 as fast as I can. But I have no choice for MIDI music apps in X for a while, so reboot I do. At least we have the option and it's fairly painless.
 
Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
ok solrac, i think you're missing the point that probably 80% or more of us here at this little cyber bar & grill do use osx as a default - with classic. We're still booting back to 9 from time to time to do what can only be done there. another 10-15% are using 9 as their default and booting back to osx to enjoy it and learn more about it.

...

yes , drive 10 will do a pretty job of repairing things fsck misses. but how do you defragment and optimize your drive? or do you ? i can tell you now that if you don't do this every so often, your osx is going to eventually die on you. caput. works like a snail then just can't find all the pieces. is that a price you are willing to pay just to snub the second best os in the world? of course you might thrash your harddrive into oblivion first. but that's ok, right? you'll just go buy three more, right?
Click to expand...

Shit, if I knew that I wouldn't have even said anything! But to my experience, it's the other way around. 80% of people boot into OS 9 by default.

Of course I don't have the true statistics of number of all mac users and percentage of them who boot into X by default... those statistics don't probably even exist. But I'm assuming the great majority boot into 9 by default, and that is also the image or feeling I got by seeing other mac users that I know (I'm the only one in X out of a ton of em that I know, and all the other 9 people wish they had X), and reading these boards seem like everyone stays in 9 most of the time. Hopefully I'm wrong then.

As for fsck, sounds good. But there is no Unix or BSD tool to optimize or defragment a drive? Not even a binary command line executable that can be downloaded? Are you sure? And even if not, there will be such a tool before anyone's hard drives die on them. But that is a very good point. I should find a way to optimize and defragment ASAP in X....

-solrac-
 
well i posted a poll just to see how many are doing what. check it out. so far, all osx for default. remember, this site used to be called macosx.com. folks here are maybe a little more aware than your hometown buds. but iwouldn't try preaching to them either. you'll only end up with less buds.:cool:
 
Originally posted by Ed Spruiell
well i posted a poll just to see how many are doing what. check it out. so far, all osx for default. remember, this site used to be called macosx.com. folks here are maybe a little more aware than your hometown buds. but iwouldn't try preaching to them either. you'll only end up with less buds.:cool:
Click to expand...

LOL, I tell all my buds "move to X, ASAP, do whatever you can, don't be lazy, don't be passive, etc. etc.", and none of them can move to X.

Two of them need FCP 3 and DVD Studio Pro, both coming to X this quarter, (FCP 3 tomorrow!!!). Another of them uses Quark, and so she could move to X if she learns inDesign. So I tell her, fuck OS 9, get X, InDesign, and learn it, and adapt to it. She's still my bud ehehheeheheh.

Of course I don't tell them stuff like you will no longer have the hollow satisfaction injected into your veins bullocks. That's only for the message boards! LOL

-solrac-
 
so solrac - doesn't the poll and the results so far make you feel a little better? maybe mankind is not as doomed as you imagine. at least here you are among people who are stepping forward in stride with you.

btw - this isn't a messageboard. it's an online community. welcome to it. just remember you are preaching to the choir. you don't have to shout. :) we've all heard the good news. we've seen the miracles with our own eyes. Amen brother. give me an amen.:cool:
 
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