OK, OK, OK. X Windowing on Mac OS X
- Thread starter chenly
- Start date
The Only windowing system (aside from what's built in) that I'm aware of for OS X is XFree86. There are lots of ways to install it, but the simplest is probably to use fink.
http://fink.sourceforge.net/
There's lots of info there to make it work, and it will download and install the correct packages for you. It's not bad.
- ferris -
http://fink.sourceforge.net/
There's lots of info there to make it work, and it will download and install the correct packages for you. It's not bad.
- ferris -
What about Tenon's XTools? I know it's overpriced, but I know there are others. I installed XFree86 but it wouldn't let me launch anything outside of the menubar, so I took it off. Every time I tried to use the Dock, XFree86 would start up but the application wouldn't launch. I specified rootless mode, so, theoretically, anything outside the X windows would be ignored by XFree86, but no... Versions 4.2 and 10.1.4. What to do, what to do?
OK. Every shortcut in my Dock is within /Applications. The programs which were in this directory, and not in a subdirectory, would cause X to launch when their shortcuts were clicked in the Dock. I have put all of them into folders within /Applications and everything's fine. Now, what about the GIMP? The only download I can find requires Tenon's XTools and won't run without it.
I used fink to install it. you have to install the Xfree86-base and the xfree86-rootless packages. Once you have those working, you should be able to install macgimp and that too will work.
If I were you, I would also get the latest copy of oroborosx and install that so that X will interleave with the Aqua gui... works like a champ. I got x and agua apps running at the same time, and on the same scream with a very similar looking aqua like windowing manager... hell, I can even run an Xterm from my Freebsd box over my airport network and administer the FreeBSD box using its own Xserver... pretty spiffy stuff if you get it all to work.
If I were you, I would also get the latest copy of oroborosx and install that so that X will interleave with the Aqua gui... works like a champ. I got x and agua apps running at the same time, and on the same scream with a very similar looking aqua like windowing manager... hell, I can even run an Xterm from my Freebsd box over my airport network and administer the FreeBSD box using its own Xserver... pretty spiffy stuff if you get it all to work.
BSDimwit, the Dock doesn't work with XFree86 installed. When you click on an item in the Dock, it launches XFree86 instead and then does nothing. This didn't happen with the XTools demo, but I categorically refuse to pay $200, plus $100/year, for X windows. Do you know of any others, or have any leads on the bug? By the way, I did uncheck the "Switch to XFree86 when Clicking on Item in Dock" checkbox in the far right pane in the XDarwin preferences window.
Im using xfree86 with oroborosx as my window manager, when I click the oroborosx icon in the dock it launches xdm no problem. Many other nice features in oroborus as well such as X11 apps minimizing to the dock, and apps launched via the osx menu.
You can get it here
http://wrench.et.ic.ac.uk/adrian/software/oroborosx/
You can get it here
http://wrench.et.ic.ac.uk/adrian/software/oroborosx/
Fink is really the way to go. It's free, has support 24/7 through the mailing lists, it's very reliable and doesn't install things all over the place. I installed with fink more than 200 packages and getting better all the time. You can download the installer from here:
http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/index.php
Download the installer disk image:
Fink 0.4.0 Binary Installer - 8.4 MB
Get all the info at the fink web site and you should check the mailing lists too.
fink-beginners here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/fink-beginners@lists.sourceforge.net/
or fink-users here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/fink-users@lists.sourceforge.net/
If you have time you can check some screenshots I posted here:
http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/PhotoAlbum7.html
Cheers...
http://fink.sourceforge.net/download/index.php
Download the installer disk image:
Fink 0.4.0 Binary Installer - 8.4 MB
Get all the info at the fink web site and you should check the mailing lists too.
fink-beginners here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/fink-beginners@lists.sourceforge.net/
or fink-users here:
http://www.mail-archive.com/fink-users@lists.sourceforge.net/
If you have time you can check some screenshots I posted here:
http://homepage.mac.com/sao1/PhotoAlbum7.html
Cheers...
When you say the dock doesn't work, do you mean nothing will launch at all, mac os stuff or unix stuff, or do you mean it won't launch UNIX apps only?
My dock works with with X running but I use Oroborosx and when I want a unix app to launch I use the command line to fire it up... haven't tried to actually launch a unix app using the doc.... one caveat, when I minimize an app, unix or mac osx it does minimize into the dock like its supposed to.
My dock works with with X running but I use Oroborosx and when I want a unix app to launch I use the command line to fire it up... haven't tried to actually launch a unix app using the doc.... one caveat, when I minimize an app, unix or mac osx it does minimize into the dock like its supposed to.
buc99
Don't Tread on Me!
First off, the only X window system is Xfree86.
XDarwin and Tenon's Xtools are nothing more than implementations of XFree86. I personally do not care for Fink. The reason why I don't care for fink is because it is lazy and does not teach newbies where, why and how things are done in UNIX. This is my own personal opinion so go flame elsewhere. I installed Xfree86 and then I installed OroboroX on top of it. This run rootless. Some people have had troubles with getting OroboroX and Xdarwin to start up when they click on the icon. It is not because the program does not work, usually it is because folks did not add the Xfree86 directory to their Path. Then perform a rehash or restart. I have not yet found any Xwindows distribution for OSX to be easy "point and click" installations. Hopefully, someone will fix that one day. However, there is plenty of documentation on how to do this. A great place to begin your search is:
http://www.savagetranscendental.com/OSX.html
I could sit here and explain from start to finish how to do this but it is a long time consuming process and step for step details can be found at the page I mentioned.
As for installing the GIMP. The GIMP is NOT an OSX application. Therefore you will not get "Point and Click" access to it. It must be run with Xfree86. I usually start this up from within an Xfree86 terminal. I believe you can add it to the toolbar in OroboroX and Xdarwin.
Good Luck.
SA
XDarwin and Tenon's Xtools are nothing more than implementations of XFree86. I personally do not care for Fink. The reason why I don't care for fink is because it is lazy and does not teach newbies where, why and how things are done in UNIX. This is my own personal opinion so go flame elsewhere. I installed Xfree86 and then I installed OroboroX on top of it. This run rootless. Some people have had troubles with getting OroboroX and Xdarwin to start up when they click on the icon. It is not because the program does not work, usually it is because folks did not add the Xfree86 directory to their Path. Then perform a rehash or restart. I have not yet found any Xwindows distribution for OSX to be easy "point and click" installations. Hopefully, someone will fix that one day. However, there is plenty of documentation on how to do this. A great place to begin your search is:
http://www.savagetranscendental.com/OSX.html
I could sit here and explain from start to finish how to do this but it is a long time consuming process and step for step details can be found at the page I mentioned.
As for installing the GIMP. The GIMP is NOT an OSX application. Therefore you will not get "Point and Click" access to it. It must be run with Xfree86. I usually start this up from within an Xfree86 terminal. I believe you can add it to the toolbar in OroboroX and Xdarwin.
Good Luck.
SA
buc99
Don't Tread on Me!
I probably should not respond to the fink remark, but I feel I should clarify:
I've been looking for help and helping others on this forum and many others like it. I've been involved with helping other people and their Unix problems since "PB" because I love this OS. I'm no UNIX guru nor do I claim that OSX must follow some UNIX "Purity" doctrine.
But since the release of "PB", I've noticed that a lot of questions could be easily answered if people took the time to learn a little about UNIX. Granted, not everyone has this amount of time and possibly a lot of Mac users never bothered working with Unix systems. I worked on many Linux boxes and dabbled in FreeBSD in the PC world way before OSX came out so I had a little understanding of the learning curve involved. Not every Unix flavor is the same. Heck, there is about a dozen + different flavors of Linux and they all have their little quirks.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with where Fink places packages on the system. But not all of the files needed by these apps are in /sw. So when I get my "millionth" "I installed this package with Fink but it does not seem to work ... Please Help!" question, I find that alot of these questions can be overcome by a little Unix knowledge. The thing is, Apple has made it very easy for people to use this OS without ever having to open the Terminal.app, yet these people still want to dabble in X and the open source software that is available. (Because it is free) And I can't blame them. But if they have not run the Unix learning curve first, then they have no business installing these apps with a Packaging device like Fink. They need to do a few "make" and "sudo amke install" commands to get the hang of what they are doing. Unix is NOT point and click no matter how hard developers like the good people at Fink try to make it.
Basically, don't come crying about something from Fink not working if you don't understand what it is Fink is doing. And this is not like saying "Photoshop is lazy ...". Photoshop is a grapic arts tool. Whereas you could probably make an argument for Fink being a tool, but I personally think it is a crutch for many.
Now for those of you who actually read all of this and take this personal. Don't. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to clarify my personal opinion on Fink. So if you disagree, fine. But the next time you have problems with an app installed by Fink, let me just say "I told YOU So."
Thanks.
SA
I've been looking for help and helping others on this forum and many others like it. I've been involved with helping other people and their Unix problems since "PB" because I love this OS. I'm no UNIX guru nor do I claim that OSX must follow some UNIX "Purity" doctrine.
But since the release of "PB", I've noticed that a lot of questions could be easily answered if people took the time to learn a little about UNIX. Granted, not everyone has this amount of time and possibly a lot of Mac users never bothered working with Unix systems. I worked on many Linux boxes and dabbled in FreeBSD in the PC world way before OSX came out so I had a little understanding of the learning curve involved. Not every Unix flavor is the same. Heck, there is about a dozen + different flavors of Linux and they all have their little quirks.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with where Fink places packages on the system. But not all of the files needed by these apps are in /sw. So when I get my "millionth" "I installed this package with Fink but it does not seem to work ... Please Help!" question, I find that alot of these questions can be overcome by a little Unix knowledge. The thing is, Apple has made it very easy for people to use this OS without ever having to open the Terminal.app, yet these people still want to dabble in X and the open source software that is available. (Because it is free) And I can't blame them. But if they have not run the Unix learning curve first, then they have no business installing these apps with a Packaging device like Fink. They need to do a few "make" and "sudo amke install" commands to get the hang of what they are doing. Unix is NOT point and click no matter how hard developers like the good people at Fink try to make it.
Basically, don't come crying about something from Fink not working if you don't understand what it is Fink is doing. And this is not like saying "Photoshop is lazy ...". Photoshop is a grapic arts tool. Whereas you could probably make an argument for Fink being a tool, but I personally think it is a crutch for many.
Now for those of you who actually read all of this and take this personal. Don't. I'm not trying to offend anyone, I'm just trying to clarify my personal opinion on Fink. So if you disagree, fine. But the next time you have problems with an app installed by Fink, let me just say "I told YOU So."
Thanks.
SA
Note: If that was for my benefit: I didn't use Fink. I don't see what the point of Fink is. Fink is on my system and I have no idea how to use it.
Separately, here IS a problem with my system, caused by installing and removing different X windowing systems. Tenon's XTools won't even install now, much less run.
Separately, here IS a problem with my system, caused by installing and removing different X windowing systems. Tenon's XTools won't even install now, much less run.
buc99,
Relax, relax...take a deep breath...
What are you talking about?
Yes, I know...about your problems... with fink or without fink. About your love for this OS, about your help to other people in this forum. About Unix purity doctrine?
All this sounds so romantic...
But, problems you are going to have in any case, if you install in /usr/local or in /sw.
"I told you so"
Thruth is you will tell people "I told you so" because you really don't know how to help them, as you don't understand how to give solutions in that particular subject (fink).
In future, if people has problems with some fink installed package (and especially ask for your advice), you better send them to where they understand about fink, like the fink-beginners list or the fink-users list, where the developers will help them in their way.
And I can see then, you are not a unix guru...really, you better believe it, problem is, by your words you try to look like one.
Look, I know, you can help at your level, and you probably do a great service to absolute newbies. But just because you don't understand a subject, you don't neeed to come patronizing and saying "I told you so".
Rather, learn a way around, and believe me, they are many ways to make things work. That you would not know about them, doesn't mean they don't exist. To know your limits, is a much better attitude than saying "I told you so".
You see, we have opposite experiences, I heard countless times about people having problems installing in /usr/local. The installers put things all over the place (look at Chenly's problems).Things they don't even know they exist. And then, writing over your previous installations.
So, my personal experience tells me how much I love fink, and after installing over 250 packages with it, and enjoying a very clean, neat software installation in my Mac, I can only say thank you for such an excellent tool.
Fink gives me 24/7 support through the mailing lists. It's reliable. It's free. And, just in case I would not need it anymore, it's extremely easy to delete from my system.
You don't need to use it if you don't want it. Everybody makes his own choice. Same goes for OSX, you use unix if you want. Many people just don't.
The good point for us is that...we are all learning Unix.
Cheers...
Relax, relax...take a deep breath...
What are you talking about?
Yes, I know...about your problems... with fink or without fink. About your love for this OS, about your help to other people in this forum. About Unix purity doctrine?
All this sounds so romantic...
But, problems you are going to have in any case, if you install in /usr/local or in /sw.
"I told you so"
Thruth is you will tell people "I told you so" because you really don't know how to help them, as you don't understand how to give solutions in that particular subject (fink).
In future, if people has problems with some fink installed package (and especially ask for your advice), you better send them to where they understand about fink, like the fink-beginners list or the fink-users list, where the developers will help them in their way.
And I can see then, you are not a unix guru...really, you better believe it, problem is, by your words you try to look like one.
Look, I know, you can help at your level, and you probably do a great service to absolute newbies. But just because you don't understand a subject, you don't neeed to come patronizing and saying "I told you so".
Rather, learn a way around, and believe me, they are many ways to make things work. That you would not know about them, doesn't mean they don't exist. To know your limits, is a much better attitude than saying "I told you so".
You see, we have opposite experiences, I heard countless times about people having problems installing in /usr/local. The installers put things all over the place (look at Chenly's problems).Things they don't even know they exist. And then, writing over your previous installations.
So, my personal experience tells me how much I love fink, and after installing over 250 packages with it, and enjoying a very clean, neat software installation in my Mac, I can only say thank you for such an excellent tool.
Fink gives me 24/7 support through the mailing lists. It's reliable. It's free. And, just in case I would not need it anymore, it's extremely easy to delete from my system.
You don't need to use it if you don't want it. Everybody makes his own choice. Same goes for OSX, you use unix if you want. Many people just don't.
The good point for us is that...we are all learning Unix.
Cheers...