OS X Problems... still

F

fishbonex

Registered
I tell ya, I thought I was satisifed, but I am frustrated beyond belief again.

OS X, is NOT for everyone. I am a Mac evangelist, and I can see the advantages OS X has for most. If you have a newer machine, or just use it to read email, it's a great OS. But as for me, and I am sure a silent group of others like me, this OS X blows to try to do ANY productive amount of work on.

All of my complaints were made months ago, but I will breifly repeat them again. I fixed some of the speed probs by upgrading my video card to a Radeon 9000. But it did not fix everything.

Drag and drop: this is a vital proceedure in the way I work, but I can no longer simply drag a eps file onto a photoshop icon to open, or a jpg, gif or pdf file for that matter. Having to File/Open every single document I want to work on is a MAJOR hassle. Ever want to open more than 1 image at a time, from random places? I hope not, cuz you can't do it anymore.

Speed: working within my big 3, Photoshop, ImageReady and Dreamweaver is really slow. Simple operations, like "new document", "layer styles" or even "new layer" take seconds longer. If anybody reads that and says "seconds? Get over it" then you obviously do not work in graphics for a living.

Snapshots: useless as PDFs going to my desktop. Why? I use a LOT of snapshots the way I work, and all of them collecting on my desktop as random PDFs sucks. And since I can't drag and drop them, it's again a slow, tedious process.

I am running a G4 with 400MHz and 832MB of memory, I wish, really wish, there was some kind of warning to those of us with older machines not to upgrade cuz of speed issues. Instead, all this OS X love festing has put me in a bad situation trying to work. I wish I had never upgraded, I use a similar G4 (minues the upgraded video card) at work everyday with OS 9 installed. Sure, it crashes WAY too often (OS X NEVER crashes), but stability isn't everything when your freelancing at home on a project and it'sd taking forever to do simple projects. OS 9 is way faster on G4's configured like mine and way easier to use.

If anybody has real answers, let me hear them. Not BS answers like "get over it" or "works fine to me". If you do not understand why I am complaining abou these subjects, you either have a newer machine that OS X was MEANT for (as opposed to Apple letting us all move to it without warning) or you do not require to work at hi-speeds under daily deadlines such as I do. I love Apple, and understand OS X is better. But it ISN'T a better option for everybody. OS 9 is way better if you have an older machine and you want to work productivley.
 
Well, then you seem to have two options:
1) Go back to 9
2) Upgrade your hardware

Since 3) "put up with it" can't be done, I suggest one of the others. If you have the money, I think 2) is the best option, since minor OS speed tweaks will not resolve your problems. Maybe one of the new rumored PowerMacs can satisfy you ...

However, are you sure your installation is OK? The drag'n drop issue seems wierd to me ... I'm running 10.2.6 and can drag'n drop normally, both to app icons on the desktop as well as in the dock ... Maybe you should check whether your OS installation is OK and your other software is well configured and up to date.

Alas, I have no other suggestions you might want to hear ... :)
 
Drag and drop every item to Photoshop icon to open them? You can open them multiply from the menus "open" or with apple-o in Photoshop, you don't need to drag and drop everything.

OS 9 is faster on a 400 mhz machine. So you would be able to work faster with it. It is faster even on mine, i just decided not to use it at all.

I use Kunvert to change the snapshot format. it opens the file, saves it to .jpg (or what you like) and deletes the original, and closes the program when it's ready.

What can i say? OS 9 is faster on your machine. It will probably be more productive for you.
 
I have the same machine, and my work flow has not dropped to far below that of X. Like I always say, 9 crashed more often cutting down the workflow and fixing the problems with 9 took time as well. Considering the lost time and frustration, I get more work done, some actions aren't as fast, but a few seconds don't bother me too much. I rarely had my 9 system up for a week without a crash, I recalled days of constant crashes, try to execute something, CRASH or a damn system freeze. I miss the speed, but it's merely a few seconds and i do mean few.
 
I know OS 9 is faster on my machine, that's my point. I never read anywhere before upgrading, and I waited until last summer before making the jump, that there were any type of speed/performance related issues. All I heard was how marvelous it is and "what was I waiting for"?

I know how good it is. I know how good it looks. I know how stable it is. I love the networking abilities. But I hate how all my programs run on it. I hate the loss of simple functionality. I know I don't HAVE to drag and drop every file in photoshop, I just prefer to open them that way becasue it's faster. Using the "open" command in the menu, as I stated, is not helpful. It's sluggish, and it doesn't help when you want to open 3 items that are in 3 spots. Double clicking on a file is preferable of course on single files, but that's not what I'm complaining about.

Snapshot PDFs are fine, I've grown accustomed to them. I just wish they woudl get saved somewhere else than on my desktop. But I will give that program a shot, see how it works.

I would estimate the lags in performance times is at least 25% on simple proceedures. New layers should be instantanious, as should delting layers, creating new documents, file/opening, etc. This all adds up when you work on teh machine for a living 10-12 hours a day.

I don't have the cash to drop a couple of G's on a new machine, this one was fine. I really would rather not move back to OS 9 in order to be able to make a living on my machine again, but I don't see any other solutions here to the problem. I am running OS X 10.2.6, have all of the X software updates and after those purchases, I am not too happy about having to go back to 9. I don't know about you, but another couple of thousand dollars is a big deal in my life and I already dropped over a grand on X related updates.
 
Oh quit whining!
There are articles all over which state quite clearly: OS X isn't as fast as OS 9 on a comparible machine.
For most of us, however, the slight performance hit is more than made up for in the stability and ease of use that it has over OS 9.
I must say though, it seems like your OS it quite messed up. For most people (including me) drag-and-drop works fine.
Now think about this: does the slowdown, while annoying, actually cause you to lose more time than the crashes and incompatibilities of OS 9 did?
If you can't use OS X nicely on your computer, either cough up and buy a new one, or go back into OS 9 until you can. One other option would be for you to buy a processor upgrade card. That wouldn't be as expensive as a new computer, but it would give you a big performance boost.
In short, don't come trolling around this forum complaining because OS X is a little slower then OS 9 on a very border-line machine for it anyway.
 
If you had read the slightest bit of OS X related info before you upgraded you would have heard the warnings that while OS X will run on your system, don't expect stellar speed.

If you don't have the cash to drop on a new Mac, then drop back to 9 or live with the speed of X on your machine. There is really no simple, cheap solution to better performance. Additional RAM might help a bit (probably reduce the spinning beach ball frequency), but it will not "speed up" the feel of the OS.

A processor upgrade card will speed some things up, but since your video card is 16MB (and not AGP, if you have a Yikes! mobo), you will not benefit from Quartz Extreme, which goes a long way towards making the OS feel more responsive...

The G4/400 could still yield around $700 or so on eBay. Unload it and apply that money to a new Mac.
 
Oh please, don't insult me with "you should have researched it" crap. If somebody point me to a single article pointing out OS X speed issues with APS, DWM, AI, etc., dated a year ago or so (before the fevor had died down). I read a TON of stuff, I stated I waited a whole year before even making the jump because I WAS reading and reading about it. Also, as my post had stated, I took the step to upgrade my old crap video card to a Radeon 9000. It made it more responsive, sure. But not enough to make up for the lag. My machine is my job, and it pays bills for me. I take screwing around with the inside of it very seriously.

And you can toss that crap out the window trying to paint a picture of me being "a troll". I have been on this board a while now (I registered on about 2 months after you), I don't post much, I just read what I want. Message board games are not my bag.

I don't know about you, but I may have crashed occasionally on 9, but I can't fathom how anybody could crash SO much that the slower speed adding a friggin layer effect to a 12Mb PSD file would be worth it. If you're machine WAS crashing that often, then there was serious problems besides the simple OS.

And thanks for the "just cough up the dough" advice! I never thought about that! Forget the mortgage payment, the car payments, the 1k + I spent upgrading software and the video card to work properly on OS X, it's a borderline machine anyways!

Sure my post is bitching, but you're way off base trying to paint a picture of me being some kind of PC troll fishing for a fight or a naive child jumping on the OS X bandwagon. I have been using MACs professionally for a decade now, have owned 5 different machines and know my way around the guts of the box. I know I'm not alone in my feelings and bitches (the moderator of another OS X board has similar gripes) and I am certainly justified in complaining about the problems which have no answer besides "buy a new machine".
 
Uh, I don't mean to be insulting or anything.... but honestly, a year? I found out the day it was released.
I'm sorry, but it seems to me that you are a whining. You come here with a problem you have asked before. A question which has an obvious answer (to most of us). A question which you don't really want an answer to, you just want to complain.
You are making it sound like it is our fault that your machine doesn't run as fast in OS X as it does in 9. Welcome to the party, no one's does. Most of us like the improvements OS X brings, enough that the slight performance hit doesn't matter that much.
You're certainly welcome! I think it is good advice. If I am going to make my living off something, I am going to want to make sure it is new enough to run what I want. If it isn't, I'm going to need to upgrade or just not run that stuff until I do. After all, OS 9 was working fine for you before, right? So just go back there and use what you were using before the OS X upgrade. Then when you get some $$$$, upgrade your computer and then you can use your new OS X native software again. You don't lose anything.

I'm not really sure why you posted. There is no way we can 'wish' your computer faster. Your computer would be, in my opinion, borderline for serious design work even in OS 9, let alone OS X. If you plan on making your living this way, then I would recommend scraping some cash together from somewhere and getting a new Macintosh.
I remember someone else whining about the same sort of things you are. He upgraded, and all his problems vanished. If you want more info, his Screen Name here is solrac, go talk to him :)
 
Not much real life experience, have ya? Ever have to pay a few bills? Try to make a business work in this ecomomy? Have any worries about the wife and kids health insurance costs? I doubt it the way you sound.

What makes you think my Mac, configured as is running OS 9, was borderline? Have you ever worked with any of these programs besides making a favicon or something? Give me a break. You DO realize the #1 document layout program in the business doesn't run on OS X, right? OS X is not the end all to having a hi-speed machine. Heads up, buddy, but G3's still can be productive machines. My G4 is stacked. OS X is the problem for this machine. I already admitted it was a better OS overall.

Why did I upgrade? Well, everything I DID read was favorable. I already admitted that OS X is a better OS overall, I love the networking amongst other things. I wanted to take advantage of all the major plusses OS X offers, and did not read anything that came close to mentioning this type of sluggishness. Why did I wait a year? Fear of exactly what happened.

Why did I post here? I need answers and I am desperate. I listed probelms I was having, and asked for answers besides "buy a new machine". Why did you post here at all? You answer with "buy a new machine" and insults. I know the other board had people complaining of the same thing, a moderator in fact. I figured maybe, just maybe, somebody who read my post would have a helpful solution cuz they also ran into it.

Maybe you had your machine handed to you, but I have to buy it with money that can go to keeping lights on, or cars running, or food on the table. You're damn right I'll complain, but stop acting like there is nothing wrong with this OS. Do I not have the right to complain about this? I am desperate for answers, and frustration leads to complaining. I posted my problems, you posted insults. If you don't like my whining, then just beat feet it out of the thread.
 
wow, quit bitching. maybe you shouldnt have bought all those nice fancy osx programs if your computer cant run them fast enough for you

your install is messed up somehow, drag and drop is functional for everyone else. also, if this is your livlihood then shell out a few bucks for a passable computer - apple offers nice financing options

oh, and quark has been out on osx for at least twelve hours ::ha::
 
Wow sorry. Guess I touched a nerve, didn't I?
Well, the facts are:
1) Most (all) of us don't have the problems you are having.
2) The only solution is to shell out for either a new computer or an upgrade for you current one. The fact of life is that OS X is a little slower than OS 9. You either get used to it, go back to OS 9, or upgrade. Face the fact :-\
But really, if this is your livelyhood, can't you afford to get something to allow you to work properly?
 
I know it is frustrated for you. You have deadline, etc. I believe that most have posted some reasonable alternatives. Mac OS X required everyone to make some chances. The old habits we formed in the years using Mac OS 7-9, certainly changed in X. Try the suggestions people have offered, get used to new habits. Your machine is slower to process than it was under 9, certainly just as productive. Learn to work with the system and not try to force it to be a Dual 1.24 gig machine.
 
Dear fishbonex:
Your OS X installation is probably screwed up. As some already pointed out, Drag'n Drop is working fine for the rest of us. I honestly advise you to check your Os install. Insert your OS X CD, boot from the CD and run Disk Utility> Disk First Aid on you system partition to check and repair permissions. Please report back if that didn't work.

Other suggestions: backup your files, reformat HD, install OS again. Check speed.

Simple test to roughly compare your system's speed to other similar systems is Xbench.

There is no way to make your OS significantly faster by software tweaking. Sorry. If the problem is not a faulty OS install, then it's a hardware problem. We cannot make your hardware faster. Consider going back to OS 9.

Maybe this is not what you want to hear, but it's all I've got to say.
 
What can I say to everybody calling me a whiner and a bitcher because I don't want to buy a new machine and am upset my machine is slow? I really get the feeling most of you are High school or college kids who didn't even buy the first machine you own, let alone have to deal with the prospect of spending several thousand more on another. So that explains alot about your responses and lack of understanding why buying a new machine isn't an option for me. Get a job, pay a bill, and then revisit this kids.

I was hoping to hear something like " Adobe has an update to fix that", like they did when OS 9 came out and Photoshop was all screwed up. I wasn't looking for one of you to "magicaly" make it better, get a grip on yourselves. To make a living in the graphics field, you don't have to have a brand new machine just so you know. And Quarks X preview, that I tried weeks ago, is horrible.

But to those who did offer a possible solution without also insulting me for merely voicing a complaint against this OS ( which I like as I stated), I thank you. I will try to re-install the OS as sugested, to try to fix the drag and drop problem.
 
What can I say to everybody calling me a whiner and a bitcher because I don't want to buy a new machine and am upset my machine is slow? I really get the feeling most of you are High school or college kids who didn't even buy the first machine you own, let alone have to deal with the prospect of spending several thousand more on another.
Click to expand...

Man, we've offered advice and laid out the facts. While everybodys perception of accetable speed is different, most here will concur that a G4/400 running OS X is going to be slow running the professional apps that you are (PS7, DWMX). I used to own this machine, and I can understand your frustration. I maxed out the RAM (1.5GB), installed a new (at the time) Radeon 8500, and upgraded to Jaguar. It was still too slow to be considered useful, especially when compared to how that machine ran OS 9. I had to make a decision, and that decision was to prematurely buy a new Mac (ahead of my 2 year schedule) so I could run OS X. I justified it with getting jobs done faster under OS X, since I wouldn't be crashing all the time (as I did in 9). Sure, it ate in to my profits, but I did get to deduct the machine at tax time...

That's just the way it is. There aren't any magic software updates. There aren't any additional upgrades (sans a CPU upgrade, but if you had the money for that, you would probably want to opt for a new Mac). Sorry we don't have any answers other than those already posted.

I can sympathize with you to some degree. I have bought all of my Macs out of the profits of my own business. Each time I do, I seriously consider buying a PC instead for 1/3 of what I could spend on the Mac. Now that I've got a PC on my desk for certain tasks, I'm even more inclined to pony up for the Mac.

So, take a deep breath. These are your choices....

1. Stay with OS 9. If it works for you on your current hardware, then this seems to be your best option. Keep saving, and when you've got enough, you can unload the G4/400 and use that along with your additional funds to buy a new Mac that can run OS X well...

2. Ditch the Mac and buy a PC. Of course, you'll have to sell all your Mac software and buy PC versions. You'll also spend a good bit of time getting all your old Mac work on your new PC. Not to mention the downtime you'll have now and again troubleshooting the oddities of Wintel land. But you will get a (reasonably) fast machine for not a lot of money.

Hope you eventually make a decision that works for you.
 
Well, yes, I am still in middle school.
However, I would think that if this it the way you make your living, then if this slowing down is causing you that much lost productivity you should get a new machine which will let you work at top speed, even if you have to use one of Apple's Financing options.
I thought that you said you had already tried reinstalling. Maybe that was somebody else, but that was the only other suggestion I thought of back when I read your post. I didn't say so because I thought you had already done it.
Yes, I bought my own computer, I am trying to find a job, and my computer is plenty fast, thanks. I don't need a new one.
If you wanted us to tell you if there was an update, why didn't you just say so? Instead you come here are start going on and on about how things aren't as fast as they are in OS 9. You could have made your post much simpler, something like this:
Hi everyone!
I have been using OS X for a while, and I have been having speed problems. I upgraded my video card to a Radeon 9000 awhile back, and although it fixed some of the problems, it didn't fix all of them.
One of the biggest problems I am having is that Drag and Drop won't work for me. I have to go to the Open dialog box each time I want to edit something. This is a real pain, especially since OS X saves screen snap-shots as PDFs on the desktop.
One other problem that really affects my productivity (I use this machine to make my living on) is that my big three applications (Photoshop, Imageready and Dreamweaver) seem quite slow. For example in Photoshop, when I create a new layer I get the spinning beach ball for a few seconds before anything else happens.
Does anyone know of a patch or something that will let me get Drag and Drop back into the finder, or maybe one that will fix some of the speed problems I am having in my 'Big Three'?
My machine is a 400MHz G4 with 832MB of RAM. I know that this isn't the perfect computer to run OS X on, but upgrading isn't an option for me right now due to financial constraints.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
See? Something like that isn't anywhere near whining, you stated all your problems, and you didn't do anything like trolling.
Now, I think one of the biggest things to remember when asking for help is that you are much more likely to get it if you don't go insulting the people who are going to help you. :gasp:
Oh, one other thing: what version of OS X are you running? If it is 10.0 or 10.1, UPGRADE TO 10.2! I have never used 10.2 or 10.1, but other people say that Jaguar is much faster :)
Now, assuming that you did post like I demonstrated, I will now proceed to answer your post :)
Dear fishbonex:
I am sorry you are having problems, but I'll try to help you out.
First of all, for most of us, drag and drop works just fine. I would recommend reinstalling your OS if you haven't already done so. Make sure that you back everything up and reformat the hard drive at the same time.
There are several scripts that will change a screen capture into a .jpg once it is on the desktop. I am afraid I don't have links to any of them, but you could try searching Versiontracker.com or Macupdate.com
Now about the slow down: unfortunately your G4 is sort of on the edge for running OS X at all. My family has an old 400MHz iMac DV that my sisters use. It has OS X installed, and while it works fine for what they use it for, I wouldn't want to run Dreamweaver or Fireworks on it.
All of the applications that you mentioned are fairly 'heavy' applications. This means that they use a lot of RAM and processor power. Although your Mac has plenty of the former, it is somewhat lacking in the latter. You could fix this by installing a processor upgrade card. For just a few hundred bucks, you could have a 1.2 GHz processor with 2MB of L3 cache and a 100MHz bus. This would make your computer like new again!
I don't know of any patches for you apps, though you could trying looking on either their web sites, or one of those two I gave you before!
Good luck!
 
Originally posted by fishbonex
I tell ya, I thought I was satisifed, but I am frustrated beyond belief again.

OS X, is NOT for everyone. I am a Mac evangelist, and I can see the advantages OS X has for most. If you have a newer machine, or just use it to read email, it's a great OS. But as for me, and I am sure a silent group of others like me, this OS X blows to try to do ANY productive amount of work on.

All of my complaints were made months ago, but I will breifly repeat them again. I fixed some of the speed probs by upgrading my video card to a Radeon 9000. But it did not fix everything.

Drag and drop: this is a vital proceedure in the way I work, but I can no longer simply drag a eps file onto a photoshop icon to open, or a jpg, gif or pdf file for that matter. Having to File/Open every single document I want to work on is a MAJOR hassle. Ever want to open more than 1 image at a time, from random places? I hope not, cuz you can't do it anymore.

Speed: working within my big 3, Photoshop, ImageReady and Dreamweaver is really slow. Simple operations, like "new document", "layer styles" or even "new layer" take seconds longer. If anybody reads that and says "seconds? Get over it" then you obviously do not work in graphics for a living.

Snapshots: useless as PDFs going to my desktop. Why? I use a LOT of snapshots the way I work, and all of them collecting on my desktop as random PDFs sucks. And since I can't drag and drop them, it's again a slow, tedious process.

I am running a G4 with 400MHz and 832MB of memory, I wish, really wish, there was some kind of warning to those of us with older machines not to upgrade cuz of speed issues. Instead, all this OS X love festing has put me in a bad situation trying to work. I wish I had never upgraded, I use a similar G4 (minues the upgraded video card) at work everyday with OS 9 installed. Sure, it crashes WAY too often (OS X NEVER crashes), but stability isn't everything when your freelancing at home on a project and it'sd taking forever to do simple projects. OS 9 is way faster on G4's configured like mine and way easier to use.

If anybody has real answers, let me hear them. Not BS answers like "get over it" or "works fine to me". If you do not understand why I am complaining abou these subjects, you either have a newer machine that OS X was MEANT for (as opposed to Apple letting us all move to it without warning) or you do not require to work at hi-speeds under daily deadlines such as I do. I love Apple, and understand OS X is better. But it ISN'T a better option for everybody. OS 9 is way better if you have an older machine and you want to work productivley.
Click to expand...

1st of all... Welcome here! :D

2nd... If you have drag & drop issues 1000% you have problems with your OS X installation! Damn even on iMac G3/400MHz/256RAM/etc there is no drag & drop problems!!!

3rd... Solutions to your problems!? Here we go:

-Check/Repair by using Jaguar CD1 your OS X boot hard disk
-If the above will not fix your problems try to do a whole fresh reinstall (formatting your HD in HFS+)
-Install Mac OS X 10.2.6 Combo Update
-Use utilities like MacJanitor and Cocktail to fix/optimize your OS X installation at least once a week
-Try NOT to run Classic at the same time
-Try to remove apps that may hog down your system (you can easily check this by using your Process Viewer)
-Download from www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ the two updates for Photoshop 7 (if that's the one you are using) and if there are any updates for software you currently use under OS X
-Check from www.versiontracker.com/macosx/ updated drivers for your peripherals like scanners, printers, etc. because most of 1st OS X drivers from manufacturers where too basic and problematic causing OS X installations to crash!!!
-Reset your Mac's PRAM just in case
-Install the newest firmwire for Mac
-If you installed any themes or 3rd party software you may have to disable it or even uninstall it
-Try to use a utility like Horse Menu (it is discontinued but I can send it to you) which lets you assign a higher speed for any apps you like at any given time
-Of course instead of using the above mentioned utilities you may want to get down and dirty by using the Terminal :p

However, no matter what you will do, there is no way to reach OS 9 speed... NO WAY!!!

Also, my 1 of my questions to you is: WHY oh WHY if Photoshop is the main way of earning you money, you do not use OS 9 straight away? :confused:

One other question is: WHY oh WHY you do not sell your Mac rig for say a $1000 (or even more) and buy a Wintel or better a Winamd or even better a Linuxamd+Gimp? Especially in the last config you could earn some money too! :D

Try the above things for your OS X installation and let us know! :cool:
 
Currently PS7, Flash MX and Ill 10 are open, no problems for me. I always have AIM, Entourage and iTunes open in the background.

I had this problem, thought i made a huge mistake, no big deal since my system is partitioned, I can always jump to 9 if needed. But after a few installs of X, and yes I mean installs, not sure what was wrong, but I had to install 10.2 about 7 times in one day, and 10.1 had panics thanks to my usb drive(dettached until needed). I posted that info here in numerous forums. Everything i know of X has come from hours of stress, frustration, and now, I hate to say it's behind me, so i should expect something sooner than later. So i decided i would clean my CD-ROM laser lens with a cleaner CD, then reinstall 10.2, it worked, now if that was a fix, spec of dust causing problems or luck, i don't know.

I this G4 when it first came out, she WAS the sweetest thing, she's 3 years old and still gets the work done.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top