OS X + XP: Who will really win?

What will the competition between OS X + XP result in?

  • Mac and Microsoft will both keep the same market share.

  • Mac will gain market share among niche groups.

  • Mac will gain market share from the general public.

  • Mac will lose market share.

Results are only viewable after voting.
I know this won't be very popular, but it is my story and certainly truthful. For years I have faithfully stuck behind Apple and Macs, even attempting to convince users that Macs could do anything that Windows can do. In some ways, this is true. With some effort, or a lot of effort, one can do things on a Mac that one can easily do with Windows. I have a very long history of working with several operating systems on different chips, but mostly sticking with Apple and Mac over the years. However, about one year ago my Powerbook needed to be repaired and I was without it for a few months. During that time, I started using a Sony Vaio desktop with Windows 2000 Professional and I was impressed with its speed, reliability, and functionality. I have read here that some chastize others for not taking the time to try new things or different things and to be honest with you, I now understand why Windows users won't do this. Things which are cumbersome to do on a Mac are very simple in Windows 2000. It operates very quickly (my Sony Vaio is 800mhz with 512mb ram) and I have very few problems with it.

Now, my powerbook has been repaired with a faster processor and 512 mb ram and I have just installed OS X 10.1 on it, and I have been spending two days trying to bring it up to the level of functionality I already have with Windows 2000 out of the box. Spending time tweaking and installing things on my Mac used to be fine, but now I own a business and I don't have time and don't want to read forums to figure out how to access shares, or get something else working for that matter -- I just want it to work when I turn it on -- and Windows 2000, although I LOATHE THAT MONEY SUCKING FREAK IN REDMOND, does just that. I am very concerned about Microsoft's carefully planned attempt to dominate the Internet with Passport and Windows XP, but they, and the software written for Intel machines, take care of everything and I just don't have to WORK to get things to work, they just work. This means that I spend time making money and not experimenting with operating systems or getting things to work.

Now you might say that it is because I am not used to UNIX, but in this assumption, you would be wrong. In fact, I prefer UNIX over all operating systems (and have used UNIX since the 80s), but OS X 10.1 is quite a bit more than the UNIX underpinnings and Red Hat Linux (on the desktop at least), suffers from the same ease of use and functionality problems as OS X 10.1. In 1995, I would have been impressed with OS X 10.1, but this is 2001 and I find it slow, cumbersome, and still typical of Apple -- forcing me to work to bring it up to the level of Windows 2000 usability and apologizing for it to others.

Currently, I lie in my bed with my Powerbook running MAC OS X 10.1 plotting how to get rid of it so that I can buy a Sony Vaio laptop so I can keep working efficiently even when I am not at my desk.

Sorry Apple, but you still didn't get it right and now I don't have the time to mess with it anymore.
 
... this is your personal experience. it might be true for you, it certainly isn't for me.

i'm a sysadmin supporting Dell notebooks running Win2K and Apple notebooks running Mac OS 9.x/10.x. Our design department uses the Macs, our beancounters and consultants use the dells.

from a supporter's point of view, windows has many advantages. one of the most important ones is, that a supporter never loses his job. ;) but that's a mac-user's joke. no, really: windows HAS advantages. it's far easier to set up a bunch of dell notebooks the same way over a network. no-can-do with the macs right now.

but what really surprised me in all those years is that the problems mac users run into basically are problems that have to do with the work they're doing, while windows users have problems with getting any work done at all!

bad thing about osx: still no nice backup solution. good thing: we don't need any yet, because people back up their machines nicely to our firewire backup harddisks, from where i make snapshots on DVD-Ram from time to time. it's a workaround, of course, but it's an easy one.
 
Yeah, I do have to admit that the Win admins. weren't too thrilled with the Dell machines when I worked for a company. In fact, I was issued a Dell and chose to use my Powerbook the whole time I was with that company. With Dave from http://www.thursby.com, it was quite nice, particularly since I spent most of my time working with files on UNIX systems anyway. In fact, us Mac users had no problems and I was the Mac guru, even getting Outlook for Exchange set up on the Macs at work (because the Win Admins. didn't know that Mac users could run Outlook when Exchange was used). However, Dave, as you may know is slow and I am completely unimpressed with OS X 10.1 even if Samba is installed (which I am familiar with). I spent the morning reading the forums and playing with the Mac to get it to connect to the shares on my Vaio desktop, without success I might add. Also, I do have to admit that my Sony Vaio is very powerful with DVD and CD-RW and 800mhz 512mb, massive hard drives, IEEE, USB, on and on, while my Powerbook is only a 466mhz (upgraded) Wallstreet. Still, I sit and write this now on my Sony and I do all (now anyway) of my work on this Vaio and my beloved Powerbook has become basically the pariah of all the computers in the house (and we have plenty) ;-).

Daniel
 
What do you do on the Sony that you can't do on the Mac? It would be interesting to know.

I'm not a system administrator although I served in that function for a Macintosh typesetting department; as well as software tester, typesetter, designer, supervisor, and last but not least, matchmaker (my 2 former employees got married last year).

Personally, I have no problems with Mac OS X at home and 9.1 at work. Professionally I wouldn't upgrade for at least a year. That's how I've always done it because my users need to be productive and new software bugs don't help there.

BTW: XP will win. Two reasons: 1. Inertia, 2. Users don't usually pick their OS, the IS department does.
 
**
What do you do on the Sony that you can't do on the Mac?
**

As I stated in my first post, I spend time earning money rather than making my system easily functional, tweaking software, or searching for software to do what I can easily do on my Sony. Here's a specific example:

I can install MyODBC from www.mysql.com into the ODBC drivers control panel of the Win machine, add a DSN (that is not a typo), and then subsequently link Microsoft Access to the databases of a MySQL server (where privileges have been granted in MySQL according to the client's IP address for example) in less than five minutes. You cannot do this with FileMaker. This means that I can work with an interface to update databases, tables, and fields very easily.

Oh sure, you CAN find tools to connect to MySQL databases for the Mac, such as Macsql which give you a command line interface for $249, but in that case, I might as well telnet directly into the server and use the MySQL command line for free. Even so, this is a recent phenomenon. If you know anything about MySQL and client access, you'll know that Macs were sadly lacking in the database connectivity category for years.

Filemaker is as expensive as Access and is less functional -- out of the box (as my original post discussed).

I didn't even touch on the price of Macs versus PCs, and being a long-time Mac user, I don't care what the Mac rags say, Macs are more expensive to buy and buy software for, than are Windows machines.

I am talking about specific examples, such as the one above, and as the saying goes the devil is in the details.

There is no argument here about how one copies and pastes on a Mac versus Windows or that one can run Photoshop on a Mac and on a PC because everyone knows that.
 
Wow, you guys. Great job on reopening a thread that has been inactive for a month now. Do you guys go searching through archives of Mac forums just searching for a way to get Mac users mad?

In all seriousness, I think this thread has gone on long enough, and it is time to retire it. There is nothing left to be said besides personal experiences, and everyone has good and bad experiences with both Macs AND PCs, without a doubt.

So please, lets not make any more posts after this. I could have said SO many things about the last few posts, but I didn't, because if we continue this thread, we'll all just get blue in the face.

Let's concentrate on talking about OS X, now, not about OS X vs. XP.

*** simX says, "Goodbye!" to a long and unending (until now) thread.
 
I read an interesting article the other day that predicted that M$ will fall on its collective *ss with XP. Among other startling facts, the writer pointed out that only 10% of Windoze business users have made the switch to Win2k! And the percentage among home users is obviously even lower. So where is the big rush to XP gonna come from? The folks who were so thrilled by that marvelous WinME? :rolleyes:
 
Holy genghiscohens! This adds so much perspective to this thread!

END THE MADNESS, PEOPLE!!!!! ;) (In all seriousness, though, end the madness!)
 
I just heard that XP won't have DVD playback and CD-RW support unless the app pays MS to support it. Boy - no DVD or CD-RW at release - sound familiar? I also heard that you only get 4 device upgrades before you are locked out & have to call M$, and also if a program crashes - you have to call M$. I voted things will stay the same unfortunately - strictly because of the tendencies of the sheep! I would tend to think that it should swing users that get pissed off. All I have to say is - thank god OS X doesn't have all that crap. I have a golden master of XP I was going to try out - forget it now. Next thing you know old Bill will have a probe up my ass and he will be charging me to shit. I can't wait to see those hold times at M$. God forbid if the system crashes.

B

:rolleyes:
 
I have been using XP Pro for about 2 weeks now and am glad to report that it does indeed have both DVD playback and CD-RW support. So blow the dust off that GM release you have and give it a whirl. XP is nice, but NOTHING like the hype M$ is trying to make for it. It IS very fast and stable. I installed it on a 800 AMD Thunderbird with a 3D Prophet II and a SoundBlaster Live!, ASUS A7V133 MB, FireWire card, NIC, the works and I did not need to load drivers for anything, which was SO nice coming from 98 and 2000, where you would be lucky to find a driver and even more lucky if it actually worked.

Laterz
 
There has to be one in every forum right? Well, I am that one. Apple Rules Hands Down!

Long live Mac os X.

Die you evil copy of Mac os X (Microsoft XP)
 
The whole Windows vs. Apple thing is kind of mote anymore. I mean to be honest the PC world and the Apple world are different. They really are just about building a better experience for each set of users. I think on Apple's end there is a desire (and a need) to increase the user base, but not to "take on XP" as it were.

We live in a different computer world today. For me it is a better one now (since I switched to Macs). I have become, to my shock and amazement, some what of a Mac fanboy. And as per the fanboy code of honer feel the need to tell people about the joy of my new found Mac.

When a lady I work with said she was getting a new computer I took her to the apple web site and showed her all the different models. Told her about what they offered, and how easy they were. She hates computers and I told her this was her answer. She started to get visible excited about the idea of owning a computer that did not own her. Then I told her if she really wanted to get one to give me a call and I would go mac hunting with her.

But to me that is the difference. Macs really are personal. As much as a computer can be.

I think Apple is taking their time and doing it right. They got me with a three point punch.

:: One the iPod. I wanted it so bad (but only had PC's)

:: Two I saw the new iMac. It was great and I could burn DVD's (beautiful)

:: Three OS X. After I used it once I had to have it (wonderful).
 
Well, since this thread is almost a year old and Apple hasn't appeared to gain any more market share, I'd say OS X isn't necessarily losing but it sure isn't winning either.

I don't know how someone would guage something like this anyway, there are so many factors involved.

Over the past year, OS X and XP haven't been competing against each other, they have been competing against their predecessor, OS 9 for OS X and Windows98 for Windows XP Home Edition.

Also, XP is nearing the end of the line for their OS that's based on NT 4 technology.

Windows "Longhorn" is in development now, expected for a 2003-2004 release and is supposed to be the last Windows release based on NT technology.

The next major release of Windows, Windows "Blackcomb", is expected somewhere around 2004-2005. It will be to Windows XP/"Longhorn" what OS X was to OS 9.

By then OS X.* should have all the kinks, any completely new OS would expectedly have, worked out.

On the other had, Windows "Blackcomb" may be what OS X was when if first came out, brandnew and full of bugs.

Only then do I expect OS X.* to have a comparative advantage.

I'd love to see Mac gain market share against Windows. I believe the best innovation takes place when competing against another for dominace.

This could explain why Windows to some, especially Mac users has gotten a little stale. They haven't been competing against anyone but themselves for a decade. Can you really lose to yourself?

In anycase, I think with the release of OS X, Apple can count on a decade of prosperity whether they "win or lose".
 
Dont forget, in the last year, Apple has been refining OS X into a proper OS. XP had the advantage of being built on previously well developed platform. Even though OS X is built on NeXTStep, it took a great deal of work to make it gel with the (semi-) traditional MacOS look and feel. Only now is OS X good enough to be considered a real contender.

Even though OS X is still comparably sluggish, the features more than make up for that. Give a little bit more speed (10.2), a good ad campaign (Real People), and some improved hardware (MWNY, new PowerMacs), and I think you'll start to see some more users trickle in from the PC side.

I know more that one or two users who have converted or will convert in the near future, and a growing number of Mac users can tell the same story. This has never happened before. Apple may only get 7-8% of the market in the end, but that is a whole heck of a lot for one manufacturer to hold. So long as they keep developing innovative hard/software, people will notice. Really, they will!
 
expanding Apple's share! Now, where that share will come from is not easily a thing that anyone can clearly see, let alone guess...

However, I think that Apple has eyes for the professionals more than the average joe and such a thing can be seen in:
-Jaguar co-operates better with Windows when it comes in networking
-Xserver is out
-Apple buys companies that will allow its own apps become champions in music/movies industry
-Jaguar has even more advanced features which account more in a corporate environment

Also, I think that even the new ads are a chameleon tactic which if it works and Apple gets more share with the help of the average customer, in the long run will give them share also on the professional sector. How is that? Because if someone buys a Mac and likes it at home, then most probably will buy one or two for his small office/company or even a dozen or two for his medium to large company ;)

Take me for example and me alone: I bought a Mac 6 months ago and now most of my friends and family members ENJOY (that's their word not mine) their Mac ;) How many are they? 8 more Macs and next month another family member buys a PowerBook G4/800 ;)
 
Originally posted by Powermaster
There has to be one in every forum right? Well, I am that one. Apple Rules Hands Down!

Long live Mac os X.

Die you evil copy of Mac os X (Microsoft XP)
Click to expand...

Huh? One of what? A power master? :)

You're wrong, too. If Windows XP were a copy of Mac OS X, even a bad singer would be arrested for humming a song (because of the copyright of the song).

The two are different beasts. Windows XP is a better (?) version of Windows 2000. Their plan is to integrate everything from a PDA to the big servers, under something called .net (dumbest name ever, as I feel stupid now having ever reserved a .net domainname).

While this plan may sound a bit fuzzy, I don't see yet one with Mac OS X, other than to have a nice and good operating system for the great hardware Apple is making. Where's the strategy? Oh, yes: "We're the center of the digital lifestyle. We're the digital hub." How long can you say that marketing phrase when you've long been copied by Microsoft and Sony? I really hope Steve will come up with something new, something that sounds like a plan rather than a statement of a politician who wants your vote.

That said: Long live Mac OS X! :)
 
I really hope Steve will come up with something new, something that sounds like a plan rather than a statement of a politician who wants your vote.
Click to expand...

I think Xserve is this begining of this new plan. Steve is just being very humble because of Apple's previous failures in the server market. It's nice to see Steve not think he's god for a change.

This time thought it seems Apple really does have a comparable and in many ways, superior product to those currently being offered in the lowend server market. Perhaps if Steve was more humble more often, he might actually get somewhere with people that "haven't drank the Koolaid." One reason I never cared for Apple when all they had to offer was OS 9 is that most of their users come off as stuckup a*sholes. I think OS X humbled them as well because for the first time in 14 years, they couldn't figure out how to setup a printer without Chooser either.

If Xserve does being to take off, I think you'll see Apple toting more of the features of Jaguar like remote administration and better integration into Windows networks.

Hearing Steve go on about the "digital hub" at keynotes always seemed really lame to me, but that's only because I don't understand the experience he's talking about.

MS has talented programers, probably some of the best in the world. People bitch and whine about security but when you control 95% of the desktop market, and 60% of the server market, who are a*sholes going to write viruses for and try to exploit? BeOS?

Many of us are to young to remember but *nix had worms, backdoors and viruses plague it throughout the 70's and 80's and early 90's that made MS's security problems seem like a broken HTML link.

Linux today is riddled with insecurites as well, they just don't get the attention because they account for such a small %. I run RH Linux, I get my list of packages to update due to security holes weekly.

I do worry about Longhorn and Blackcomb because just as Apple starts to steal some of the thunder away from MS with OS X, here comes the next big thing. And the fire Apple has lit under MS's ass will only make them strive to make these products the best they can be.

Let's face it, XP was only a weak counter to OS X. The next one might very well be a devistating blow.
 
If OS X is slower than Windows XP, that REALLY makes me reconsider about switching over! My XP is already slow enough! Even with 512 MB RAM, it's still very slow.

I hope OS X gets better, otherwise i'll be stickin with this for awhile!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top