OSX System Freeze
- Thread starter crash
- Start date
i hear all the regular stuff while the system is running, error beeps, aim jingles, etc. but at startup, no matter how looud the sound is set, the gong doesn't gong. i doubt the mystery crash and the lack of a gong could be related, but who knows?
in regards to the mystery crash...
i have a confession to make: the BW G3 is not "totally" stock, hardware-wise. i have twin G3's, both blue and white... one came from the factory with an internal DVD and internal zip and a 400MHz processor; the other came with a 450 MHz, and only an internal CD drive. so, i swapped the internal stuff. at the time i would rather have had a 450 MHz with the DVD and internal Zip, but if i have to bite the bullet and change it all back, i'll do it. i seriously doubt that could be the problem, since ultimately the hardware is the same, other than the processor speed.
i leave it to you. for the sake of the scientific process i should do it anyway. but the machines are in two different geographic locations and its a little hard for me to work on both at the same time. plus, one is a server, so its a little difficult to just take it down for maintenance.
thanks for all the help.
in regards to the mystery crash...
i have a confession to make: the BW G3 is not "totally" stock, hardware-wise. i have twin G3's, both blue and white... one came from the factory with an internal DVD and internal zip and a 400MHz processor; the other came with a 450 MHz, and only an internal CD drive. so, i swapped the internal stuff. at the time i would rather have had a 450 MHz with the DVD and internal Zip, but if i have to bite the bullet and change it all back, i'll do it. i seriously doubt that could be the problem, since ultimately the hardware is the same, other than the processor speed.
i leave it to you. for the sake of the scientific process i should do it anyway. but the machines are in two different geographic locations and its a little hard for me to work on both at the same time. plus, one is a server, so its a little difficult to just take it down for maintenance.
thanks for all the help.
buc99
Don't Tread on Me!
Just an idea. I could be wrong.
But wouldn't "no gong" mean something is not loading properly?
If this IS the case, your instal is screwed somehow. Once again, I come back to the OSX install CD being corrupted somehow. Can you get your hands on another CD? Just for testing purposes, it would be nice to try a clean install on a newly formatted disk with a NEW OSX CD. Can't hurt.
Good Luck.
SA
But wouldn't "no gong" mean something is not loading properly?
If this IS the case, your instal is screwed somehow. Once again, I come back to the OSX install CD being corrupted somehow. Can you get your hands on another CD? Just for testing purposes, it would be nice to try a clean install on a newly formatted disk with a NEW OSX CD. Can't hurt.
Good Luck.
SA
hazmat
Rusher of Din
Originally posted by buc99
Just an idea. I could be wrong.
But wouldn't "no gong" mean something is not loading properly?
If this IS the case, your instal is screwed somehow. Once again, I come back to the OSX install CD being corrupted somehow. Can you get your hands on another CD? Just for testing purposes, it would be nice to try a clean install on a newly formatted disk with a NEW OSX CD. Can't hurt.
Good Luck.
SA
But isn't the gong before any OS loads? Would that be from the firmware? Try getting the latest one. Can that get corrupted?
at this point my firmware is at 1.1
i honestly wouldn't even begin to know where to look for a firmware upgrade.
any suggestions? i've looked on apple.com, but honestly their support/download site is labryinthian.
i tried downloads.com, but the newest one they had was 1.1..
am i already up to date?
thanks guys
i honestly wouldn't even begin to know where to look for a firmware upgrade.
any suggestions? i've looked on apple.com, but honestly their support/download site is labryinthian.
i tried downloads.com, but the newest one they had was 1.1..
am i already up to date?
thanks guys
nkuvu
Gone
A question for the Mac gurus: Would zapping the PRAM help at all? Rebuilding the desktop perhaps?
I honestly have no idea what the PRAM controls, so can't say if it would do anything related. But if the OS has been installed cleanly (on a freshly formatted disk) and the problem continues, it's my feeling that it's a hardware problem/conflict.
General computer problem advice:
Reduce your computer to its most basic elements: A cpu and a motherboard. No memory. No other cards. No keyboard, no mouse. What happens?
Add elements one by one until you have a very basic system. Minimal configuration is the key here, just enough to get by. Can you recreate the problem?
The shotgun debugging approach (due to a number of people diagnosing the problem at once) works only rarely. Try to isolate your problem, then suggestions can be made to fix it. If you have anything non-stock, remove it. If the problem goes away, you are that much closer to understanding what the cause is. If the problem remains, you have verified that that component is not the cause.
What is the current configuration of your computer? You've been doing a lot to it throughout the life of this thread -- just wanted to know where it stands now.
I honestly have no idea what the PRAM controls, so can't say if it would do anything related. But if the OS has been installed cleanly (on a freshly formatted disk) and the problem continues, it's my feeling that it's a hardware problem/conflict.
General computer problem advice:
Reduce your computer to its most basic elements: A cpu and a motherboard. No memory. No other cards. No keyboard, no mouse. What happens?
Add elements one by one until you have a very basic system. Minimal configuration is the key here, just enough to get by. Can you recreate the problem?
The shotgun debugging approach (due to a number of people diagnosing the problem at once) works only rarely. Try to isolate your problem, then suggestions can be made to fix it. If you have anything non-stock, remove it. If the problem goes away, you are that much closer to understanding what the cause is. If the problem remains, you have verified that that component is not the cause.
What is the current configuration of your computer? You've been doing a lot to it throughout the life of this thread -- just wanted to know where it stands now.
i already tried the PRAM. didn't help. i also tried booting back into 9, and letting it run. it was up for almost 9 hours with aim, ie, navigator, itunes and outlook express running (with OE checking mail every 10 minutes) so there was plenty of activity. not a single problem. the only reason it didn't keep going was because i wanted to play around with OSX.
the current configuration after being frustrated with the barebones system i was running:
BW G3 450MHz
448 MB Ram
40 GB internal IDE hard drive
dual Viewsonic A90 19" moitors on twin ATI Rage 128 cards. (in two normal slots, not the short one.)
internal DVD/Zip
Earthlink DSL through Linksys 4 port cable/dsl router.
7 port friendlynet USB hub
USB CompactFlash Card Reader
USB cradle for palm m505
external firewire CDRW
OS X 10.1.4 - OS 9.2.2
the current configuration after being frustrated with the barebones system i was running:
BW G3 450MHz
448 MB Ram
40 GB internal IDE hard drive
dual Viewsonic A90 19" moitors on twin ATI Rage 128 cards. (in two normal slots, not the short one.)
internal DVD/Zip
Earthlink DSL through Linksys 4 port cable/dsl router.
7 port friendlynet USB hub
USB CompactFlash Card Reader
USB cradle for palm m505
external firewire CDRW
OS X 10.1.4 - OS 9.2.2
Hypernate
McGeek
OK, the 'bong' (start-up sound in MY language) could be related to the OS X crash. It's possible that the firmware is corrupted in a bit that 9 doesn't touch, but X uses. If that's the case then you might try re-installing the 1.1 firmware.
It would be very odd if the 'bong' wouldn't sound with the firmware intact.
It would be very odd if the 'bong' wouldn't sound with the firmware intact.
where is the sound coming from? - internal speakers or external ones. Sometimes the startup chime (apple's terminology ) isn't heard by external speakers because they haven't had a chance to power up (especially speakers in monitors).
Did you get the gong before installing/crashing OSX? If so, then it would be a large coincidence if it were not related to that.
Roger.
addendum:
Just pulled this off the apple website:
) isn't heard by external speakers because they haven't had a chance to power up (especially speakers in monitors).Did you get the gong before installing/crashing OSX? If so, then it would be a large coincidence if it were not related to that.
Roger.
addendum:
Just pulled this off the apple website:
OS 9 has no problems with the gong. it rings everytime. after i booted into 9, and restarted in 9 a few times after playing around with a few things, i then rebooted back into OSX, and guess what? it chimed. they are external speakers, but they're not in a monitor, they're just altech lansing externals; pretty much always on.
i tried to run the firmware updater (1.1) and it told me my firmware was already up to date. is there a way to reinstall it or to bypass that message?
i think we're hot on the trail.
hopefully.
i tried to run the firmware updater (1.1) and it told me my firmware was already up to date. is there a way to reinstall it or to bypass that message?
i think we're hot on the trail.
hopefully.
i just booted into open firmware and entered:
reset-nvram
set-defaults
reset-all
the odd thing is: prior to booting into OF, i ran nvram -p from terminal, and it showed me all the firmware variables and settings.
after resetting it all, i ran nvram -p again...
most stuff looked the same, but there were two big differences. like an IDIOT, i didn't save a txt version of the original values. one of the differences i noted was the order of the variables. one of them was something like "console-screen"...... before it was way higher in the list, and i think it had a value. now its 5th to last with no value. also, there was some other variable (the name of which escapes me...) but it had some super crazy looking long string after it. it was totally non-sensical. now its gone. the only long non-sensical string thats is there is for the "boot-device" with a value of :
/pci@80000000/pci-bridge@d/pci-ata@1/ata-4@0/@0:6,\\:tbxi
i'm guessing that refers to the hard drive.
anyway, i've only got an uptime of like, 15 minutes from the last reboot which was the reboot directly after resetting all the firmware stuff. we'll see how it works. at this point, i doubt it, but i've tried most everything else.
how hard we tried.
reset-nvram
set-defaults
reset-all
the odd thing is: prior to booting into OF, i ran nvram -p from terminal, and it showed me all the firmware variables and settings.
after resetting it all, i ran nvram -p again...
most stuff looked the same, but there were two big differences. like an IDIOT, i didn't save a txt version of the original values. one of the differences i noted was the order of the variables. one of them was something like "console-screen"...... before it was way higher in the list, and i think it had a value. now its 5th to last with no value. also, there was some other variable (the name of which escapes me...) but it had some super crazy looking long string after it. it was totally non-sensical. now its gone. the only long non-sensical string thats is there is for the "boot-device" with a value of :
/pci@80000000/pci-bridge@d/pci-ata@1/ata-4@0/@0:6,\\:tbxi
i'm guessing that refers to the hard drive.
anyway, i've only got an uptime of like, 15 minutes from the last reboot which was the reboot directly after resetting all the firmware stuff. we'll see how it works. at this point, i doubt it, but i've tried most everything else.
how hard we tried.
it's not overheating is it? I had a really wierd error like this once on a PC server. It took us weeks to determine what was wrong - we were getting very odd software errors. Once we added aircon into the comms room all the errors went away. OSX does tax the processor more than OS9 so that may be why it is only manifesting in OSX (long shot though).
Is there any software to determine the temperature of the board (remember seeing something like that once), or failing that - are you in an AC'd room - if so, turn it down and see if you get more uptime. In OS9, really hammer it hard for a long time (iTunes with full screen visualiser) to see if you can get the same effect.
I'm not convinced that this is the issue - again just trying to remove suspects.
R.
I know that we have seen some of these already in this thread, but here are some more:
Shortcuts for freezes
Use these shortcuts if your computer appears to "freeze."
Action Shortcut
Stop a process Command + period
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Force an application to quit Command + Option + Escape
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn off your computer Power key
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Force some computers to shut down or restart Command + Option + Shift + Power key
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Force the computer to restart Command + Control + Power key
Is there any software to determine the temperature of the board (remember seeing something like that once), or failing that - are you in an AC'd room - if so, turn it down and see if you get more uptime. In OS9, really hammer it hard for a long time (iTunes with full screen visualiser) to see if you can get the same effect.
I'm not convinced that this is the issue - again just trying to remove suspects.
R.
I know that we have seen some of these already in this thread, but here are some more:
Shortcuts for freezes
Use these shortcuts if your computer appears to "freeze."
Action Shortcut
Stop a process Command + period
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Force an application to quit Command + Option + Escape
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn off your computer Power key
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Force some computers to shut down or restart Command + Option + Shift + Power key
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Force the computer to restart Command + Control + Power key
this problem has really run the gamut, eh?
i had my linksys router and the DSL modem on top of the machine. they do get pretty hot, but idon't know if they would be causing the crash. that the hell, worth a try. i took them off and moved them to "cooler" locations. i've insulated the top of the box with a book and i moved the dsl router away from the dsl modem. ever since about 12:30pm, the machine has been up with no crash. i haven't tried to break it yet, but i'll post if it anything happens.
i had my linksys router and the DSL modem on top of the machine. they do get pretty hot, but idon't know if they would be causing the crash. that the hell, worth a try. i took them off and moved them to "cooler" locations. i've insulated the top of the box with a book and i moved the dsl router away from the dsl modem. ever since about 12:30pm, the machine has been up with no crash. i haven't tried to break it yet, but i'll post if it anything happens.
holmBrew
Official Volunteer
my B&W G3 400 will freeze occationally when i use some heavy apps like AI 10 and SP 7. it also hates when I have Classic running and I am listening to iTunes. This will almost certainly cause this blue and white bastard to throw a kernal panic.
so, my solution was to not run iTunes on it is I had to use Classic or anything heavy. i am wondering if it is a swap issue.
so, my solution was to not run iTunes on it is I had to use Classic or anything heavy. i am wondering if it is a swap issue.
if it were a swap issue, how would it be rectified? i seriously can't be productive on this machine with it crashing every time i click on a menu or resize a window. to tell the truth, i don't fully understand swapcop and i'm fearful of using it without a bit more of an explanation of the concept.
thanks
btw, since i moved all the heat making stuff, it hasn't crashed.
[teletran:~] kristof% uptime
8:50AM up 21:30, 3 users, load averages: 0.94, 0.75, 0.69
but i haven't been running it very hard. i'll push it tonight to see if i can make it crash.
thanks
btw, since i moved all the heat making stuff, it hasn't crashed.
[teletran:~] kristof% uptime
8:50AM up 21:30, 3 users, load averages: 0.94, 0.75, 0.69
but i haven't been running it very hard. i'll push it tonight to see if i can make it crash.
so, its been a few weeks now, and i thought i'd give you guys an update on my mystery crash.
it's still here.
i have another computer here, a powerbook G3. i leave it plugged in all the time. i got to thinking, "it never crashes."
so i reasoned that perhaps the power here is dirty. as a last ditch effort, i went out to buy a UPS. while in the store, i asked one of the tech guys about my problem, detailing all the steps i had taken to diagnose it. he said he would have tried all the same stuff. he was impressed with how thorough the check had been. i thanked him for his time, and as i was leaving, he suggested resetting the logic board. i had never even heard of this. i made sure he wasn't referring to the firmware reset i had already tried. this is how it works:
1.) power down the machine. unplug it from teh wall outlet.
2.) open 'er up. remove the CMOS battery
3.) next to where the battery is installed, there is a tiny button. press it for 10 seconds then let go.
4.) wait ten minutes.
5.) replace the CMOS battery and re-plug the machine.
6.) power-on the box.
7.) supposedly this clears out any "stray" static that may have built up in the logic board. i am skeptical.
i just got home about an hour ago. i reset the logic board. and i installed the UPS. i'll post later if the crash re-emerges. hopefully not, but at this point i'm ready to buy a new machine.
again, thanks for all your input, guys.
it's still here.
i have another computer here, a powerbook G3. i leave it plugged in all the time. i got to thinking, "it never crashes."
so i reasoned that perhaps the power here is dirty. as a last ditch effort, i went out to buy a UPS. while in the store, i asked one of the tech guys about my problem, detailing all the steps i had taken to diagnose it. he said he would have tried all the same stuff. he was impressed with how thorough the check had been. i thanked him for his time, and as i was leaving, he suggested resetting the logic board. i had never even heard of this. i made sure he wasn't referring to the firmware reset i had already tried. this is how it works:
1.) power down the machine. unplug it from teh wall outlet.
2.) open 'er up. remove the CMOS battery
3.) next to where the battery is installed, there is a tiny button. press it for 10 seconds then let go.
4.) wait ten minutes.
5.) replace the CMOS battery and re-plug the machine.
6.) power-on the box.
7.) supposedly this clears out any "stray" static that may have built up in the logic board. i am skeptical.
i just got home about an hour ago. i reset the logic board. and i installed the UPS. i'll post later if the crash re-emerges. hopefully not, but at this point i'm ready to buy a new machine.
again, thanks for all your input, guys.
CoolHead
Registered
Sorry I didn't see this post earlier.. I had the same exact problems with my B&W G3 450MHZ.... I did all that to try and fix it too except for that last reset comand in terminal... I posted it in a post on how much memory do you have in your computer but got no replies.... Anyway as far as I can tell there was a bug in 10.1.4 with one of the system buses.... My crashes more often gave kernal panics but some of the crashes with itunes up and the looping sound skip gave no kernal panics..
THE GOOD NEWS is apple appears to have fixed it in 10.1.5... just upgrade and your good to go... Been up almost a week straight with no crashing.... as apposed to the every other day or less cash in 10.1.4...
toast
Gone !
Install all but iTunes. I had problems with version 2 running beside TurboMem (freeze: perpetual rainbow cursor).
The audio just means your computer won't get farther. Signification can be: iTunes has an address problem (a kind of idle_loop, or just a perpetual cycle one).
Crash occurs even without iTunes ? The sound problem is a hint indeed. What about running with no sound (disable all sound in Sys.Prefs) ?
The audio just means your computer won't get farther. Signification can be: iTunes has an address problem (a kind of idle_loop, or just a perpetual cycle one).
Crash occurs even without iTunes ? The sound problem is a hint indeed. What about running with no sound (disable all sound in Sys.Prefs) ?