Sigh, another problem with Cocoa

strobe

Puny Member
When one has a file open with a Cocoa app, if you move or rename the file and save it it will create a new file in the old location!

This means instead of merely moving a file like mac users have been doing for decades, you have to save, close, move/rename, open.

Gah! I don't see many Cocoa developers getting my money.
 

strobe

Puny Member
jdog, you missed the point entirely. When you use Cocoa apps you have to be consciously aware what files are being used by Cocoa apps when using the Finder. It sucks!
 

jdog

Not a Moderator
hello,

First of all, its not very healthy to move/delete files you are currently working on. You can easily loose the data you are working on, regardless of the OS you are using.

Second, you should be aware of what files you are using. That is why there are folders such as "Documents," "Music," "Movies," etc. To help you keep track of you rimportant data as to keep you from accidently trashing a folder that contains important stuff.

Third, I did not miss your point, I just don't agree with you that it is a cocoa problem.

-jdog
 
strobe:

maybe I'm missing the point. Why would you want/have to do what you are suggesting? jdog's options seem logical and that's the way I would do something of that sort.

Maybe you could explain the exact situation in which you need to do what your saying. I just don't see the point of moving and renaming a doc you have open - let alone expecting the app to intuit what it is you really mean to do.

"It's not the pills so much, I just wish I hadn't had all that cough syrup."
-Bill Murray as Winger in STRIPES
 

roger

Registered
I do agree with jdog and apb3 - it is better to keep track of the files that you are working on. How do you know how the application writes to the file? If it is sending updates only and you move the file from under it the file that is created in the original place could be corrupt.

Strobe:

As this was originally posted as another problem with Cocoa is this a difference in behaviour between the Carbon and Cocoa libs that you have experienced?

R.
 

strobe

Puny Member
There is absolutely NO PROBLEM with moving files which are currently open in MacOS or Carbon applications in OS X. You will NOT corrupt files. There is NOTHING unhealthy about it. The fact that you do NOT have to keep track of files which are currently open is what people on earth call progress.

The ONLY problem is if you move files from under COCOA applications because COCOA applications read and write to a file PATH instead of a file reference.

Summary:

• No, you should NOT have to be aware what files are currently open in the Finder. That's retarded!

• No, your files will not be corrupted. What a load of FUD!

• Asking people to keep track of files when they shouldn't have to is not a solution. It's an answer like "Cocoa is inferior, deal with it" or "screw you, Cocoa isn't inferior, it's your inability to remember where all your open files are". Well screw you too.

• This is a problem specifically with Cocoa. Cocoa programmers can get around this problem by openeing and managing all their files with Carbon but I don't consider that a long term solution.
 

jdog

Not a Moderator
Originally posted by strobe


There is NOTHING unhealthy about it.
You think it is healthy to allow people to move files around that are currently being used by other applications? Why don't we ask those who develop UNIX to not have system paths anymore because you want to be able to move those folders somewhere else if you feel like it?


• No, you should NOT have to be aware what files are currently open in the Finder. That's retarded!
I am not talking about the Finder. I am talking about writing a paper (or similar task) with textedit, then moving the file using finder while it is still open in textedit.


• No, your files will not be corrupted. What a load of FUD!
We'll see, when you lose an 80page paper or presentation due to ignorant behavior.


• Asking people to keep track of files when they shouldn't have to is not a solution. It's an answer like "Cocoa is inferior, deal with it" or "screw you, Cocoa isn't inferior, it's your inability to remember where all your open files are". Well screw you too.
This point scores a big 0 on the maturity scale.

• This is a problem specifically with Cocoa. Cocoa programmers can get around this problem by openeing and managing all their files with Carbon but I don't consider that a long term solution.
Yeah, I am going to learn Cocoa, only to use Carbon in order to satisfy some irrelevent feature that can be oversome with a simple save-as command.



I don't think it is too much trouble to keep track of what I am currently working on, and use the save as to place a file somewhere else. Regardless, its really NOT that big of a deal.

This will be my last post to this thread
-jdog
 

WhateverJoe

echo $row['what_tha'];
Ahh... I understand this thread now.....!

humm... better said perhaps is... It would be neat if an app would notice a change in a currently opened file's path and not create a new file of the same name in the orginial path once moved.

I can see where this would be a good thing... I took a look at the apps I have open and the files I have open just now... well don't quit apps or close many windows and there for never see the desktop and have layers after layers of windows... so If had a few files open and went to eat lunch or something and during that time I had a quick thought about re-naming or better organizing those files and where they reside... and then came back from lunch and did such a thing, forgetting I had those files open (Which can happen!), I would quikly find that I would have a few more steps to take because I would have to close the files and delete the new ones from the old path and such....

I get it ;)
 

strobe

Puny Member
Well I'm glad somebody gets it. Everybody else is trying to defend Cocoa for no reason whatsoever other than pride.

jdog, if you think moving files opened using file descriptors will corrupt them, you're an ignorant troll spreading FUD because he can't be bothered to check his facts. Your UNIX argument seems to suggest if something wasn't invented 30 years ago, it's crap.

As for your last comment, I don't expect Cocoa developers to learn Carbon. I never suggested they should. Instead of blaming users who don't want to retrogress into the dark ages, why not tell Apple to improve Cocoa (or better yet CoreFoundation).

I will not be paying for any software which requires me to keep track of what files it has open. Using paths instead of descriptors is retarded.
 
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