Skins

Should Apple introduce skins to OSX?

  • Simple Color Scheme

  • Full blown widget customization

  • No, aqua rules as is


Results are only viewable after voting.

Banchee

Registered
While Apple excells is some areas, they seem to leave certain stuff out. One of their biggest downfalls is customization.
Veterans of UNIX/LiNUX systems know that the two major X-based window managers, GNOME and KDE, both support custom skins. Apple has fashionably left this widely held feature out of X. If you ask me, I think skins will be one of the most powerful additions to OSX.
 

RacerX

Old Rhapsody User
I know that there has been a large price for all the customization. Lets not forget that gnome and kde are built on top of the very shake structure of x-windows. Lets also not forget that most of the "cool" features of x-windows are actually violations of the x-windows standard and have introduced many problem that would not have been there had developer just followed the guide lines (best violator ever was gtk+, for both the good and bad reasons).

That aside, the main problem that people are having creating skins/themes comes from the fact that there are a number of interface properties running at the same time (namely one for carbon apps and one for cocoa apps) which makes it a tricky hack right from the start. And then there is Arent Fox (see http://www.arentfox.com ), the theme killers of Apple Legal. They didn't have much of a leg to stand on in OS 8 and 9 because Apple used the appearance functions from Copland, but now Apple has said that the look of the interface is set in stone as far as they are concerned. And they have happily sent Arent Fox after anyone who tries to make public any theme changes in OS X or any theme that looks like Aqua for any other OS (even classic Mac).

But other than that, no one is stopping you from trying.

Viva la Themes!:D
 

Jasoco

Video Gamer/Collector
All WE have to do is run over to Apple's Feedback page and BEG for theme support... It must be FULL Theme support.. With the power to do ANYTHING to the interface.

I don't want to have to wait for Kaleidoscope.. And frankly, I'd rather not PAY for a feature that should be part of the OS as it is.. I mean, Windows XP can do it, MS got the idea.. Apple is stupid for leaving it out.. (Sorry, Apple.. I didn't mean to call you stupid.. I'm just angry is all.)

I never used themes before as it is, I wouldn't find one as good, but with OS X we have an OS capable of doing a LOT more than before.. Think of what the theme makers could do with this power!

Transparent File areas in folders. (!) That'd be a neat idea! :D
I'd LOVE to see what designers could come up with!

We had better hurry over there.. If they release 10.1 at MWNY, I'll want themes. I'd hate to wait till 10.2.. Whenever THAT'd be!
 

AdmiralAK

Simply Daemonic
As I have mentioned time and time again apple has a reason behind this. The aqua look is not synonymous with MacOS yet like the platinum appearance is. Apple wants name recognition that is why it is "banning" themes until such a recognition occurs. Most people outside the mac community dont know what aqua looks like, but they probably know that platinum is an Apple OS.

I am all for themes, and I dont like apple's stance on this but I believe that this is the logic behind apple's decision.
 

strobe

Puny Member
I it were possible to port the NeuTech theme to OS X I'd be happy. It's possible to port it to Carbon apps, but not Cocoa. Cocoa ignores the theme layouts.
 

rinse

www.visualrinse.com
i would like a nice dark theme a'la NEXT...

i use the next theme in OS9 exclusively, and have for the last year or two.... there is something i find really pro / clean about a simple black interface.
 

Xaemyl

Registered
Actually, I do most of My stuff from Darwin/XFree86. When I need access to Mac apps/music stuff, then I switch to Mac OS X. This is mainly due to the fact that I despise Aqua. :D
 

Xaemyl

Registered
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
As I have mentioned time and time again apple has a reason behind this. The aqua look is not synonymous with MacOS yet like the platinum appearance is. Apple wants name recognition that is why it is "banning" themes until such a recognition occurs. Most people outside the mac community dont know what aqua looks like, but they probably know that platinum is an Apple OS.

I am all for themes, and I dont like apple's stance on this but I believe that this is the logic behind apple's decision.
I sincerely hope you're correct, AK. I suppose I can make my own BlueSteel theme for Mac OS X by hand ... but I'm too lazy. I guess I cant complain if I'm too lazy.

Well, I will be lazy no more! I am suddenly inspired! I shall create a BlueSteel theme for Mac OS X (by editing the proper resources by hand) heheh
 

MajiK MaTriX

Registered
yo my fellow macsters, i happen to like aqua and the only issues i have with os x are speed, and Software compatibility, i like using os x its nice , i think Apple has done a good job, and you people need patience...i think themes would be a nice idea, and why dont you send all your ideas to apple's feedback page, then if they get enough feedback on a certain subject they will listen...
 

xaqintosh

Master of Reality
there are a few apps that you can use to make, edit, and use themes, 2 of which are metamorphX and xmorph you can find them on versiontracker.com

I still think that Apple shuld have made all out theme support and a theming application(iTheme?) to begin with that would have been totally kŸl!
 

allengoodman

info@allengoodman.com
Customizing any widget would be silly. One of the things that MacOS X kills over NIX + X is that it has a standardized interface. Look at all the problems the KDE and GNOME teams are having with creating any sort of standard, perhaps this is why all GUI interfaces for both really just suck.

I really wish I could have posted this anonymously. . . oh well.
 

Matrix Agent

Masochist Mascot
I'm I the only one who agrees with Apple? When 10.1 is finally released and Apple goes truly public with OS X, it needs to have a recognizable face. For the six months after 10.1's release, Apple should continue to keep the lid tight on themes. Until the post 10.1 release fanfare ends, we dont need to be allowed to have themes. Who knows what some sick people would do? Put a windows theme on? Barf. Talk about a way to take away due credit.

I'm all for customization, but until almost everyone knows what mac OS X is, there will be no legal themes. We all waited a long time for OS X, can't we wait a little longer for themes?
 

pbrice

Member
I agree with the posters that Apple is holding off on 'themes' in order to create brand recognition. I also think that Apple is holding off on 'themes' in order to enforce Trade-Dress trademekaing issues.

I know a lot of people believe that the turning point for Apple was the day it lost its case against Microsoft for copying/borrowing the windowing environment introduced in Windows 3x. It was a difficult case to justify and win. However, if Apple consistently and constantly pursues any and all violations of what it considers a threat to its trade-dress, its copyrights, its patenets,..etc, it makes it easier to enforce those very items in a court of law.

If Apple appears to allows violations or modifications to its 'stated' property, then they hold little validity in a court of law for the future.

Seems to me that Apple is trying to cover its own ass.

But, as a side note, I remember reading a while back (4-6months) that Apple had applied for a patent on a 'theme-ing' system. A questionable application, at best, but it seems that not only are they trying to enforce the issues I described above, but they may be getting set to allow themeing as long as they can still protect their rights and investments.

It the same with any item you purchase, really. I mean if you can figure out how to make the changes to OS X, feel free, it's yours, but they certainly don't have to support it or warrant it. Just as the proverbial car manufacturer doesn't have to warrant your corroded car because you decided to paint orange polka-dots on it.
 

strobe

Puny Member
Originally posted by allengoodman
Customizing any widget would be silly. One of the things that MacOS X kills over NIX + X is that it has a standardized interface. Look at all the problems the KDE and GNOME teams are having with creating any sort of standard, perhaps this is why all GUI interfaces for both really just suck.

I really wish I could have posted this anonymously. . . oh well.
First of all a standard set of widgets hardly makes a 'GUI standard' The worst HIs ever created have a uniform appearance without uniform behavior.

Secondly if you change the appearance of a widget in the theme, the effect is global thus the uniformity of the appearance is maintained. All apps which support the appearance manager will chage their appearance accordingly. This is why you have the option to change the highlight color or use the graphite theme.

This argument doesn't hold water. The only ones which do are:

a) The theme format is likely to change again, and Apple doesn't want to have 3rd party themes which will break with every OS revision.

b) Cocoa support for the appearance manager is still half-assed.

c) Steve wants it to be clearly evident who has OS X running so when he's elected as the world's emperor he can pass a law to shoot any non-OS X users based on the theme they use.
 
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