Suggestions! How can Apple better penetrate the PC Market?
- Thread starter jackdahi
- Start date
Arden
Where mah "any" keys at?
Apple should buy a piece of Windows, in which they can put up whatever they want, and it will appear on Windows machines. They could put up "Go Yankees" and it would show it in a box on all Windows machines connected to the Internet. Then Apple could start invasively advertising directly to Windows uers.
::ha:: Like Microsoft would go for that!
::ha:: Like Microsoft would go for that!
Ripcord
Senior Lurker
RacerX said:
Again, I like Linux, I think it's "easy to install" and easy to run a few apps, maybe move some files around, but the easiness stops there. It's just still way too kludgy. More on this later.
In the computer room it can be superior in quite a few ways. On the desktop? Give me a break. Solaris is definitely NOT a consumer OS. I thought that's what we were talking about =)
Wow. I think KDE and Gnome have come a long way, but I still wouldn't say they're on par. CDE hasn't changed much since 1992, and it wasn't terribly user friendly at the time.
When grandma goes to install that video conferencing/sharing app, I think she's going to be a bit peeved when she finds out she has to install it from source. But it will only work after she's run ./configure and edited the Make files. And then when she goes to install the new OpenOffice, she has to run this thing called "RPM" and then figure out what "package depends on libXFRenderConf1.2.4-5rc4 which cannot be found" means. She'll be a tad bit concerned when she finally figures out where she needs to go to change her desktop color resolution from 256 colors to "Millions of colors", and when she does, the screen turns into a flurry of out-of sync lines. To fix it, she finds out, she'll need to use pico or vi in console mode to edit her /etc/X11/XF86Config file. Sharing files between her old computer and new will require her to edit her Samba config file. The constant crashing of Nautilus and/or Konqueror would be a little unsettling as she's just trying to copy files from place to place. Now she's having problems printing - Mozilla appears to just be continually spitting garbage out of her printer. So which "Start" menu submenu does she go to, to kill the job? "System Tools"? No... "System Settings"? Not there either. Ah! Under "Preferences". No, not there either - that's for the OTHER type of print queue. She should have gone under "Accessories".
Grandma's video card dies and she has to buy a different model as a replacement. The new model doesn't come with dynamically loadable video drivers, because they've been written into the latest kernel. But grandma's system is about a year old and doesn't have the latest kernel (what's a "kernel", anyway, she wonders?). Redhat's up2date program, which she paid $70 for, stopped working properly about 6 months ago, nor would she be able to access it at this point, nor would it likely HAVE the latest kernel. To get her video to work properly, she'll need to download and build the latest kernel, enabling the right driver. Whew! Hope she remembered to extract the files to /usr/src, not to /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /lib, etc.
Now grandma wants to hook up her digital camera. Her head explodes, and I have no more grandma. Thanks Linux.
I'm just trying to illustrate a few of the system deficiencies that make it "not superior" to Windows XP. It's not so much the app support (though I agree, that alone is a killer, and much much worse on Linux than on MacOS), it's shared library/dependency hell, immature system tools, hardware support problems, "pretty" interfaces only somewhat obscuring what is still mostly a hacker OS (though a very nice and well-done hacker OS - and by hackers I mean the smart, ultra-savvy computer programmers and tinkerers, not the "bad guys") and still suffers from a ton of hacker mentality.
Linux is getting there, slowly. It's making strides year-over-year. However, I'm a pretty seriously technical guy and even *I* won't run it on the desktop. All the little inconsistencies, problems, poor/immature design, etc just aren't worth it - I spend more time trying to make the system work than working with the system. I believe that it can work on the desktop in several corporate situations (dedicated workstations running Mozilla and OpenOffice and a few other apps, maintained by an IT department), but in most other situations it's just not there yet. I believe it WILL be there eventually, but not for a while.
Incidentally, BeOS was killed by:
- Anticompetitive practices by Microsoft
- Lack of app support
- Lethargic consumers
- Small company that eventually decided that it needed to find a way to make money and started building embedded software
- Bad business decisions
OS/2 was killed by:
- Anticompetitive practices by Microsoft
- Lack of native app support
- Lethargic consumers
- Product managers that had no CLUE what they wanted to do with the product
- Castration by VPs that didn't want to risk angering Microsoft and getting their Windows license pulled
- Lethargy (or not knowing any better)
- App support
- Lack of any current-day "superior" OS that will work on their hardware - i.e., no choice
- Price
Rip
RacerX
Old Rhapsody User
Ripcord said:
Maybe it is your lack of experience using Solaris. When I installed it on Sun hardware it didn't seem that much harder then installing any other OS. On Intel hardware it wasn't that bad after you get past the X configuration part.
More to the point, in the real world of average users, average users don't install these things anyways. But more on that later.
Depends, average users tend to be behind the curve on these things. Why would your grandma be more adventurous then an average user?
More importantly, many distros of linux are coming with these types of things preinstalled. Even my 10 year old SGI which came with video comferencing hardware didn't require me to do anything to use it. It is becoming a standard to install as much as possible right from the start. You should get out and try some of these releases. Boxed versions of Linux aren't nearly as bad as you seem to think.
Plus, if she is out of her depth, she should get someone else to do these installations for her.
Most distros (boxed) have OpenOffice preinstalled. Hopefully you aren't the one sending your grandma off looking for parts and pieces that come with most boxed distros you can get at the store. You aren't that cheap, are you?
The last time I installed StarOffice... on my Sun, it was as easy as installing MS Office on Windows. Maybe she should pay a little and get StarOffice.
That is more problems then any users I've seen (except those who tried to hack together a system that is... are you talking from your own experiences??). Maybe you need to research this more. Sounds like you've had some hard times with Linux that you really didn't need to have (and that the average computer user wouldn't have).
WOW!!!!! Your grandma cracks open her own computer?!?!?! This is one of the stranger then fiction stories isn't it.
I've got news for you, your grandma's head was going to explode anyways... Linux had nothing to do with it.
Very poor illustration. You need to get out and play with current Linux/Solaris more. You need to work with average users more.
As a consultant, the one thing I see is how people use their systems. Most are not going to do anything beyond the standard work/browse, and most have someone with experience do installations and configurations. I work mainly with Mac clients, and most wouldn't consider doing half those thing to their systems that you had your grandma doing.
When set up correctly to begin with, Linux and Solaris are wonderful systems. You sound like you hacked together systems, of course you had... sorry, your grandma had problems. The standard installation of Red Hat or SuSE out of the box on standard hardware installs most of the applications and features that the average person would need (matching the applications and features of that average Windows system... most of which go unchanged by their original owner).
Only the hacked together versions suffer the way you are talking about. when packaged correctly and not hacked after that, Linux can be used and maintain just as easily as Windows. When someone steps out of their depth on any OS, it is a quick ride to computer hell.
Don't tinker if you don't know how to tinker.
And for god sake... keep grandma away from the tools and the inside of her computer. I can just see the headlines now:
Woman's head explodes because of poor computing advice from grandson
malexgreen
Contributor and PB User
jackdahi said:
I really wish they would hire me as a consultant.
If they did, I would give them this advice:They need to continue incorporate PVR functionality into their G5's and Powerbooks. Or they need to come out with a digital set-top box based on the Apple platform that is a Tivo Killer.
When 3G/Wimax becomes a reality they need to encorporate it into their computers.
They need to provide coporate services to companies that switch to mac. They need to lower their prices for organizations that buy in volume from Apple.
They need to improve Ink such that it is competitive with Windows XP tablet addition. They then need to come out with a tablet powerbook.
They need to push standards harder. Windows is trying to get Windows Media 9 to become an open standard that Hollywood would buy into for video stream generation. I think Apple needs to cut them off at the pass. They need to push MPEG4, AVC, AAC, H.264 like their lives depend on it.
They need to come out with an XServe that is based on the Power4/5 processor with an Enterprise MacOSX OS. This will put them in competition with people who are selling Sparc and Itanium based enterprise servers. They also need to quickly move their current XServe line to G5. But this may put them in competition with IBM, who makes servers based on the Power chip. I think IBM wouldn't mind selling more chips, though, seeing their microelectronics division is suffering.
I've been a long-time PC person, recently acquired a PowerBook. Wow, now I understand.
A few things Apple should consider:
1) A Mac is a Lexus, Windows is a Toyota. Maybe it's time to market a "luxury" computer? Dunno.
2) Apple has an elitist attitude. No problem, it works for celebrities, politicians, etc. However, Apple users come off as cry babies, zealots, and less sophisticated than their Windows counterparts. Maybe I'm generalizing, but the Mac user community needs to get with it. Not sure how...
3) Apple needs to really highlight that OS X is UNIX with all the convenience of retail software. Linux is nice if you never want to run Photoshop natively. Windows is fine if you never want to have the power of UNIX. Essentially, Apple needs to market the Mac as a powerful computer that includes all the goodies of UNIX and interoperability with UNIX, Mac, and Windows. BTW, most PC users could care less about the G5, they only understand Pentium and Athlon. The fact that CPU speed isn't an absolute values makes it even harder for Windows users to understand G5, Pentium, and Athlon.
4) Get the Linux crowd to convert. Linux geeks love the command line crap and tweaking that OS X can offer and Windows can't.
5) The price of hardware. I don't think Apple hardware is overpriced, it's that PC hardware is underpriced. If PC people realized just how compatible the hardware and OS is with a Mac, they'd jump ship in a minute. My Mac doesn't give me nearly the hassles that a PC does. However, that's what put Apple into the predicament they're in now. Closed hardware, high prices, little adoption.
6) Promote the fact Macs don't come with all the annoying bundled crap like Windows does. OEM copies of WIndows are filled with junk like AOL, AT&T WorldNet, and a host of other junk.
I think Apple will increase its market share through its user base. Or rather, PC to Mac converts like me. Seriously, a Mac user can't convince a WIndows user to switch. But a hard core Windows user can convince their colleagues to switch because they have the credibility. In my world at least.
A few things Apple should consider:
1) A Mac is a Lexus, Windows is a Toyota. Maybe it's time to market a "luxury" computer? Dunno.
2) Apple has an elitist attitude. No problem, it works for celebrities, politicians, etc. However, Apple users come off as cry babies, zealots, and less sophisticated than their Windows counterparts. Maybe I'm generalizing, but the Mac user community needs to get with it. Not sure how...
3) Apple needs to really highlight that OS X is UNIX with all the convenience of retail software. Linux is nice if you never want to run Photoshop natively. Windows is fine if you never want to have the power of UNIX. Essentially, Apple needs to market the Mac as a powerful computer that includes all the goodies of UNIX and interoperability with UNIX, Mac, and Windows. BTW, most PC users could care less about the G5, they only understand Pentium and Athlon. The fact that CPU speed isn't an absolute values makes it even harder for Windows users to understand G5, Pentium, and Athlon.
4) Get the Linux crowd to convert. Linux geeks love the command line crap and tweaking that OS X can offer and Windows can't.
5) The price of hardware. I don't think Apple hardware is overpriced, it's that PC hardware is underpriced. If PC people realized just how compatible the hardware and OS is with a Mac, they'd jump ship in a minute. My Mac doesn't give me nearly the hassles that a PC does. However, that's what put Apple into the predicament they're in now. Closed hardware, high prices, little adoption.
6) Promote the fact Macs don't come with all the annoying bundled crap like Windows does. OEM copies of WIndows are filled with junk like AOL, AT&T WorldNet, and a host of other junk.
I think Apple will increase its market share through its user base. Or rather, PC to Mac converts like me. Seriously, a Mac user can't convince a WIndows user to switch. But a hard core Windows user can convince their colleagues to switch because they have the credibility. In my world at least.
RacerX said:
I think Apple should have, and should now buy or create an emulator package that provides native access to Windows programs on the desktop. I was disappointed when Microsoft bought Virtual PC and Apple had no response and did not anticipate it. I think one thing that Windows users need is more reassurance that it will be easy to switch and that they can bring the stuff they need, along with them. For most people with Word and Excel documents, It may never really be necessary, but it's one of those reassurances we all want, when we buy a new computer - that we can still access the old stuff from the old computer - on the new computer. It might just require too much effort to create and maintain, but it seems like a worthwhile effort.
At the very least, perhaps Apple should have bought Virtual PC, up to 51%, so that Microsoft couldn't just take it over.
Otherwise, I think they are doing a great job, despite the decline, supposedly, in marketshare. I would imagine that "decline" is something specific to some factors other than increasing acceptance of Windows. There are more and more "naive" users buying computers as the prices go down. Virtually all of them have been brainwashed into believing that they NEED Windows machines. I would imagine that this, more than a decline in acceptance of Apple, is the cause of Apple's declining (though not loss of) market share. As users get more sophisticated, and realize that a box that does not work - is not a computer - Apple's share will improve.
Microsoft does quite a good job in advertising Office v. X along with Virtual PC 6.1, I think. I like those ads in WIRED, for example. Of course, their main interest is not in converting Windows to Mac people, but still... Now: Apple is on the verge of improving compatibility themselves. Open/save MS Word documents with TextEdit (free with Panther!), presentations with Keynote. Excel's missing, and the PowerPoint import/export could of course be better in Keynote. But still... I don't think Apple should've bought Virtual PC. Unless they would create a RedBox kind of thing into OS X that 'seamlessly' opens Windows applications like Classic apps... But that's a bit difficult to achieve, I think, or Connectix would have long done this with VPC... (Yes, you could double-click win-apps with VPC, but they didn't open in their own windows, just in VPC...)
Apple's biggest problem lies in their advertising. They ran this great ad about the G5 in all the techie magazines that was a hard sale and made many coworkers of mine stand up and take notice, but they ran this horrible commercial on TV that has this kid get blown out of his house by the "power" of the G5. IT was stupid.
I liken the commercial to the G4's introduction. The government said that it was too powerful to be sold to any country that was not a friend of the US. You remember the commercial? Tanks surrounding the computer. If they had only said "supercomputer" instead of "superweapon" a lot of people would have understood the commercial.
A good idea for a commercial for Apple would be one for their "Digital Hub/Lifestyle" concept. Start at someone's home where they are listening to music in the morning while getting dressed for work. They eat breakfast and walk over to their stereo system and unplug their laptop from the AV wires and iPod from it and pack it up in their suitcase.
Outside in their car they hook their iPod up to their car stereo and drive to work. At work they sit down at their desk, pull out their laptop start doing email and office apps. May be they use it in a presentation. The day is over and they get in their car and come home to their kid's birthday party and start taking digital camera pics and video. The party's over and they plug in their camera and iPhoto or iMovie opens up. They upload their files and stuff and plug their laptop back into the stereo and watch a DVD on it through their TV. They go to sleep. Tag on screen "Welcome to the Digital Lifestyle." Apple Logo. Fade to Black.
As far as games go...Apple could benefit from a deal struck with companies like Bioware, Bungie, etc. to have them make their games hybrid (even if Apple has to pay them money).
I liken the commercial to the G4's introduction. The government said that it was too powerful to be sold to any country that was not a friend of the US. You remember the commercial? Tanks surrounding the computer. If they had only said "supercomputer" instead of "superweapon" a lot of people would have understood the commercial.
A good idea for a commercial for Apple would be one for their "Digital Hub/Lifestyle" concept. Start at someone's home where they are listening to music in the morning while getting dressed for work. They eat breakfast and walk over to their stereo system and unplug their laptop from the AV wires and iPod from it and pack it up in their suitcase.
Outside in their car they hook their iPod up to their car stereo and drive to work. At work they sit down at their desk, pull out their laptop start doing email and office apps. May be they use it in a presentation. The day is over and they get in their car and come home to their kid's birthday party and start taking digital camera pics and video. The party's over and they plug in their camera and iPhoto or iMovie opens up. They upload their files and stuff and plug their laptop back into the stereo and watch a DVD on it through their TV. They go to sleep. Tag on screen "Welcome to the Digital Lifestyle." Apple Logo. Fade to Black.
As far as games go...Apple could benefit from a deal struck with companies like Bioware, Bungie, etc. to have them make their games hybrid (even if Apple has to pay them money).
kalantna said:
Great ideas Kalantna! You should be a consultant for Apple.
Fryke, I see your points. I was thinking more of an integrated product that could also be used to run other systems as well. I think the real problem for many Windows users, many of whom would love to switch, but talk themselves out of it, is that they have this investment in software which, in 90% of cases, they don't need anymore - but which they fear to give up - because they bought it all and they'd have to start from scratch again. Apple needs a way to address that hurdle - which - in reality is small - but in many minds is huge. Thank God I never bought a windows computer myself. I let my employers buy the junk, and I bought what I wanted at home. Many people, however, have not operated that way.
they struck a deal with MS and still have it today. Why not the same for Bungie? I'm not saying a mutual beneficial agreement where Bungie makes their games for Mac out of the kindness of their hearts, but rather Apple pay them a sum to release their games on the Mac at the same time they are released for Windows.
malexgreen said:
On the whole PVR issue, I can't say how others feel, but I personally don't wnat my computers anywhere near my tv sets. Having to jack my sat decoder/dvd player or other device into my computer just seems like a huge waste of a computer. Any PVR device should incorporate a network, like 802.11g (or even gigabit ether), that way I could transmit all my info back to the primary computer in my house. That way I can use my remote to chat happily to the PVR and it has the smarts to talk to the Apple and show me what content I currently have online for viewing.
I have a feeling that doing something along these lines would also reduce the cost of the PVR as it's only real intelligence, needs to be to talk to my Mac. it doesn't have to worry about scheduling etc, coz my Mac does it all the PVR device just makes the communication and location of equipment a whole lot easier.
Arden
Where mah "any" keys at?
Excuse me? Did you just compare Windows to Toyota? Toyota makes some of the best consumer-grade cars on the market. I'm not saying they're up there with BMW or Mercedes, but a Toyota is one of the best cars you can buy for the money. (And they make Lexuses.) A better comparison would be to compare Windows to Ford: It might look good at first, but at some point down the road it has a good chance of failing you and breaking down. Not all Fords do, but many do.rubicon said:
Microsoft bought Bungie, meaning the Bungie we all knew and loved 3 years ago is now part of the games division of Microsoft. Meaning there is no more Bungie.kalantna said:
Awesome idea! You should send it to Apple. I can imagine having an inset picture of a closeup of whatever Apple device the person is using at the time, like show him taking the iPod out of its dock and show a closeup of the iPod as he's doing this in a smaller picture. That would be cool.