Supporting Macs

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FarmerPete

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I've used nothing but PC's for my entire life. From a young age I was fascianted with fixing PC's and I shortly learned all the ins and outs of Windows. I have mastered just about every aspect of the PC world, and I use that information in my job. I work for a fairly large company in their IS department. The problem is, not a single person there knows how to do even simple functions on a Mac. Our company has ~40-50 macs, and they are normally able to half support themselves. The thing is, I would like to get the knowledge to be able to help people with most Mac software issues. I am a fast learner with just about anything computer related. I'm planning on going and buying myself either a MacMini or one of the new iMacs so I can learn to use it, and eventually support it. I don't have a great fondness for Macs, and my primary machine will probably be a PC for a long time. (I currently have 2 PC's I use, 1 for gaming, and another next to it for doing multitasking stuff that I believe just about any Mac should be able to do.)

My question is, is there a good book or (even better) a free site out there that would help me pick up the basics/advanced issues of macs faster than me just diddling around with it? Anyone have any suggestions? Since I am looking to "Support" macs more than just use them, I was hoping that there might be a more specific book out there. Unfortunetly, I have been unable to locate such a book. I know that the insides of most Macs are hands-off, (an issue that I am quite honestly a little pissed about), but considering Macs are supposed to be so easy to use, we sure get a lot of people who have problems with them.
 
My suggestion is that before you try to support other users' Macs, that you develop knowledge and experience with the platform. It makes no sense to try to "support" users who know more about their systems than you do. The kind of experience that you have with PC's is virtually useless when dealing with Macs. Before you buy a book, you would do better having a serious conversation with an experienced Mac user who is more than a novice Windows user.
 
If anything, you will definitely learn a lot here, but find yourself some older Macs that are able to run OS X and play around with it. When it comes to technology, there's nothing like getting hands-on with the software and equipment. Of course, reading materials do help in getting the theory down.
 
Ergh.... can't say that I've read any Mac books lately, but I hear the Mac OS X "missing Manual" by David Pogue is good. (i've read other stuff by David Pogue years ago in the past. He is a funny and good technical writer)

That should get you started on at least all of the basics, and even some basic maintainence. You'll probably be pretty much halfway there after reading it and using your new Mac.

Troubleshooting a Mac, however, is usually a completely different process from Windows. And re-installing the OS is very often the last resort. Otherwise... good luck on your mission for knowledge.

P.S. Lesson #1: There is no registry. To unstiall a Mac application, drag it to the trash. And if you're a real nitpicker, trash its 300k "Preference" file.

:D
 
A lot of the stuff that I want to learn aren't even the real complicated stuff. A good example is, we had someone call up a few days ago and they needed to setup a printer on their Mac. All of our printers are networked. Something simple like that shouldn't be hard to do, but since I've pretty much never used a Mac before, I wouldn't even know where to begin. My company uses dozens of home made apps and stuff that I could never begin to know every thing about. The trick is to know the important parts of each peice of software so you can support it. 90% of the people calling get stuck on the same 10% of the peice of software. So if you just know the important 10% you can impress and wow them. :) Anyways, I guess the better question is, is there a book that caters to the PC Literate who are switching to Macs? I don't want a book that is designed for a novice. I have a high level of knowledge of computers, and I don't want a book that my Grandma could use effectively.
 
Nixgeek has a great point. If you really feel the need, getting hands on experience is very valuable. Depending on the level of technical knowledge you acquire, you could learn the basics of Unix, while learning the specifics of OSX. A far as books, hit your local store, and check out what books appeal to you written about OSX.
The missing manual series are usually well balanced books for novice, and experienced users. If your like most learners, reading a section of the book on how to configure a printer, and not having a Mac in front of you to actually use and experiment, may not be the best learning experience.
Be cautious that if you purchase a Mac, whether it is used or new, you just may be a future Switcher :p
 
Wont even consider switching my main PC till a few things happen. 1) 99% of games are written for Macs/Both. 2) I can build/upgrade a Mac as easily as a PC. 3) Apple opens up computer/hardware to other companies who want to make Mac systems.
 
i switched properly about october 2004. i joined here the following january. i knew nothing, and really needed a lot of help, as i was completely au fait with supporting other people's pc's, and i was frustrated that i couldn't help my own computer.

within about 6 months i changed from being the frightened tech supportee to a tech supporter. all thanks to this site.

generally, many problems recur over and over again, and the solutions are similar time after time, you see the popular problems, and learn how to fix them. you learn the system behind these problems, why these problems are happening. with this in mind, diagnosing strange problems becomes easier. i reckon i could fix most people's mac now. spend time on here reading peoples posts, seeing what the problems are, and what the solution is to fix them.. my experience of life so far is that books are very concise, but don't offer the real world anomalies of experience. you will learn a lot from here, if you put the time in.
 
FarmerPete said:
Wont even consider switching my main PC till a few things happen. 1) 99% of games are written for Macs/Both. 2) I can build/upgrade a Mac as easily as a PC. 3) Apple opens up computer/hardware to other companies who want to make Mac systems.
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No one is suggesting you do that. But if you do want to learn how to troubleshoot a Mac, you're going to have to work on a Mac....there's no other way around it. Sure, you can run PearPC and play around with OS X, but you'll only get half of the experience since some problems might be hardware related.

The reasoning you're giving for not getting your hands on a Mac are kind of silly if you ask me, especially if you're looking to troubleshoot them. As for hardware compatibility, those peole who have the Power Mac towers don't have any problems upgrading components that fit into PCI slots. Macs have had PCI slots since the mid 90s. Almost everything they have internally are industry standard connectors and expansion slots, be it memory, PCI, etc. I have an old Motorola StarMax 4000 PowerPC Mac clone that had no problems accepting a Voodoo3 2000 video card and a PCI USB card.

Motorola Mac CLONE you ask? Yes, Apple did license out their OS to other computer makers in an attempt to broaden their user base. Unfortunately, it almost led to their demise, which is why Steve Jobs stopped the Mac OS licensing program. And don't think that MS isn't suffering from having to deal with various PC manufacturers. Though we might look at Microsoft like Satan sometimes, consider that a lot of the brand name PCs come shipped with so much crap that it makes the Windows experience horrible (and to Mac users, worse than it already is :p). How I'm sure MS would love to be able to do what Apple is doing by shipping their own hardware with their own software and being able to bundle a web browser and other apps without the DoJ breathing down their backs!. Of course, a lot of the issues they've had with the DoJ has been because of how they were stifling competition with other software vendors by playing dirty tricks. Also consider that a lot of the bloat from Windows comes from having to support SO MANY types of PC hardware that it becomes a chore for them to do. Not so much for the open source guys since they basically work as a global collective, but I digress.

Also remember that just because you run Windows doesn't mean that all your hardware is going to work. Case in point, I have a NetTV-98 tuner card that works on Windows 98. Guess what it did to my Windows XP computer??? BSOD. And yes, I went to the site and downloaded their drivers, which was only available in beta. So much for keeping support with hardware on the Windows side. Hardware is hardware, especially when using standard components and connectors. It's up to the manufacturer to either work with Apple like they do with MS and provide the drivers with the OS, or make them available from their site or with the hardware.

As for games, building a gaming PC to be able to play the latest and greatest games would cost much more than buying a fast Mac for your power use (which would give you a stable and for the most part secure OS) and an XBOX 360 (which is specialized for gaming and will last you about as long as a PC would). But if you're still bent on playing PC games, know that most of the top-billing games are made available for the "big three" platforms (Windows, OS X, Linux) so unless you're going to play anything else, it's a non-issue.
 
XBOX 360? Hah. If you had ever played a FPS game on a PC and XBox, you would realize how silly that suggestion sounds. Furthermore, I love how Microsoft was raving about the incredible graphics on the XBox 360 with their HD 1024i games. I've been using games at resolution that would put that to shame with 8x AA for years. No console can even begin to compete with a PC for power, control, and flexibility. Regardless, I like PC's. They do a lot of things that Macs have yet to even touch. I have a PC that if it was sold pre-made would go for +$3000. My main goal is to fill a void in my computer knowledge. I was just looking for a book that would be geared toward someone who isn't "fed-up" with PCs and making the switch. In college I had to take a class on Windows 98. It was literally a class like, "So this is your mouse. You can move it to the left and the pointer goes to the left! Isn't that wonderful! Next week we will learn what an "icon" is." I don't want that in book format for a Mac.

I doubt I will ever fully switch, not for a long time at least. That doesn't mean that I can't respect OSX and see that it has uses. When I started working at my current company, I was outright disgusted that we were using iSeries (AS400 mainframes). I couldn't understand why anyone in their right minds would use such a peice of trash when there was better alternatives out there. Now, after working there a bit I realize that while the iSeries may be a little non-user friendly, it does have a lot of usefullness to it. While I wouldn't spend a few 100k on one, I can see why we use it. I was hoping to come to the same level of understanding with Macs.

I love PC's. I honestly think that when Mac OSX came out that Apple should have just made it an Intel based OS that would run on any system that Linux would have run on. Give it the Apple user-friendly touch, and they would have been able to have sold OSX to a few million more people who didn't want to spend a few grand on an Apple PC, but were sick of Microsoft's bull. As much as I like Windows based PC's, I would love to see some competition that drove both companies to make bigger and better things. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple would have been stagnant and near bankrupt if not for the iPod (a device that I still don't understand people's fascination with. I mean honestly, it's just an overpriced device that plays back music).
 
FarmerPete said:
...

I doubt I will ever fully switch, not for a long time at least. That doesn't mean that I can't respect OSX and see that it has uses. When I started working at my current company, I was outright disgusted that we were using iSeries (AS400 mainframes). I couldn't understand why anyone in their right minds would use such a peice of trash when there was better alternatives out there. Now, after working there a bit I realize that while the iSeries may be a little non-user friendly, it does have a lot of usefullness to it. While I wouldn't spend a few 100k on one, I can see why we use it. I was hoping to come to the same level of understanding with Macs.

I love PC's. ....
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When you are working in support, it is not about you. It is about your users. When someone calls your desk for help, they don't want to hear about which platform they should be using. They only want your help with a problem so that they can get their jobs done on the platform of their choice.
 
MisterMe said:
When you are working in support, it is not about you. It is about your users. When someone calls your desk for help, they don't want to hear about which platform they should be using. They only want your help with a problem so that they can get their jobs done on the platform of their choice.
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Very true. Thats the main reason I'm here. I know that there is nothing I can say to get them not to use Macs, so I must cope. I must learn at least enough so that I can help them with the basic issues they may be having.
 
Again, unless you're willing to integrate a Mac OS system into your collection, there's not much you're going to do to help. Expecially in technology, hands on experience with the hardware and software is key to being able to troubleshoot systems. I could read about Solaris until I'm blue in the face, but I would never be able to truly troubleshoot a system running Solaris.

We understand that you prefer a Windows PC over owning a Mac, which is why no one is telling you to replace your PC. Of course, considering the amount you've spent on that PC it's kind of odd that you would say that you wouldn't spend any money on a Mac due to its "expense." Regardless, you can find a previous generation Mac (like a late model G4 tower) for a reasonable price and gain the necessary experience to troubleshoot OS X and the systems that run them. Heck, you could even get a Mac mini for around 500 bucks and that would be a new system. You might even want to wait until they switch the mini to Intel CPUs if you're that against using a PPC-based machine.

If you're serious about supporting Macs, there's really no way around it. And that goes for any other system you're looking to support.
 
FarmerPete said:
I love how Microsoft was raving about the incredible graphics on the XBox 360 with their HD 1024i games. I've been using games at resolution that would put that to shame with 8x AA for years
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it's not 1024x768.

it's 1920x1080. and it's 8x antialiased. with 50+ fps all the time, on any game for 5 years. for £300.

so, for all i don't like microsoft, that's pretty damn good. a similar pc would cost £1000+

plus it doesn't need to go any higher resolution than that, because most screens don't go that high, and won't for the next 10 years at least.
 
Oh, and as for the gaming comparison between the xbox and PC? There's no way I personally would spend so much money on a PC only to have it obsoleted within a year's time. Yes, a year's time. As uch as you'd like to think that the PC platform is more "open," quite the opposite is true. Consider that the next generation AMD CPUs that will use the AM2 controller aren't backwards compatible with older motherboards! That means I have to upgrade not only the CPU, but the motherboard, and possibly the HSF mechanism that I've invested money on. Oh, don't forget the memory! DDR2 is the standard on those systems. And it will still cost more than buying an XBOX which will be supported for quite some time after its been released. People said the same thing about the performance of earlier gaming consoles and look at how much they've been able to squeeze out of those older systems. The same will happen with the XBOX. PC game makers don't seem to care too much about making the games run as nicely on older systems, but they don't realy have much of a choice with consoles since it's basicaly the same design until the successor to it is released.

So even with what you say about AA and whatnot on FPS games (which I ejoy playing as well), I would still rather spend the dough on a nice 2nd or 3rd generation MacBook Pro and an XBOX 360 before I blow the cash on getting the fastest gaming PC that would be hot enough to keep me warm over the winter. To each their own, as they say. ;)
 
I have a 3 year old PC that still runs pretty much every new release game (My secondary PC). I didn't spend $3000 on my PC, I spend max ~500 a year on it to upgrade parts. My PC is better than an XBox 360. It will always be better than an XBox 360. And even if I have to run with my settings turned down in 3-4 years, the games will still run. You mention that upgradability isn't always a possibility. Well, I plan stuff out when I buy my stuff, and I know I can get at least a 1ghz upgrade right now. (I have an AMD +4000. I can put a 4800x2 in there right now if I wanted to).

P.S. I don't know where this talk about me not buying a Mac is coming from. I already stated that I was going to buy either the Mac Mini or the new iMac Core Duo in my OP.
 
My mistake then, I missed your comment about purchasing a Mac.

However, add up all the upgrades you've made, and it amounts to quite a price compared to the one price you make for paying for a console. Most consoles have support way beyond 3 years at times, so a one time purchase will save you on upgrades that will cost you a bit once you add up those PC upgrades.

Again, it's a matter of preference. Some games I do enjoy playing on the PC, but the quick obsolescence factor on the PC ismaking it a less attractive option as every year passes.
 
Yeah, but to get anything even close to a PC graphics on a console and you have to spend a few k on your TV alone. And I don't know about you, but my roomates wouldn't like it if I hogged the TV all the time playing games. (I personally don't watch much TV, so I don't even have a decent TV of my own, just a 19in oldschool CRT TV). I don't even know where I would put a big TV if I got one. I know you can hook an XBox up to a PC Monitor, but then the graphics still aren't all that good.
 
Er... can someone just answer his question? He wanted to know which books people would recommend for his particular situation. I don't think he was expecting the Spanish Inquisition...
 
I can't recommend any reading material, because I've never used any myself. But I really don't think you'll need any for the things you're describing.

Getting a Mac Mini is a great idea. Use it, and poke around. I think you'll catch on pretty quickly. System Preferences is easy to explore, and for someone who already has knowledge of these things, very easy to understand (most of the technical terms are all the same; it's the less-technical terms, like "wallpaper" that tend to be different).

I'm in a similar position as you, only reversed. I'm an expert with Macs, but I never use Windows. Nevertheless, I can help Windows users. My knowledge translates over pretty well. I can coach people on how to configure Windows XP's built-in firewall to allow for this-or-that, I can install the proper drivers for CD-RWs, etc. I've even done this on machines that are in Chinese, with only a little hair-pulling. :) And I have virtually zero experience with Windows as a user (in my entire life, I've logged hours, not days, on Windows). Everything I needed to know about Windows in particular I picked up in a few minutes of use here and there, or on the spot when I was doing the troubleshooting. I'm no Windows expert, but the knowledge I've built up with Macs lets me handle that all-important 10% you mentioned pretty well. Certainly enough to impress people. :)

A lot of people just Don't Get™ Macs....but that's mainly because they've never tried. There are some things that are fundamentally different — for example, on Macs an application can be loaded and usable even when all its windows are closed, because of the Mac's global menu bar — but these are things that don't take long to pick up on. They just require some hands-on experience, which you're obviously willing to take.

So my advice is: Poke around System Preferences, poke around the Library folder(s)....and poke around here! I think you'll be up to speed before you know it.

If you want to learn more hardcore stuff, you should bone up on your Unix. Or if you're looking at Mac-centric stuff, "Terminal" is the key word to look for.

adambyte said:
And re-installing the OS is very often the last resort.
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Agreed. Personally, I've never even considered going to such extremes. It always horrifies me how quickly Windows users will talk about reinstalling. It's like amputing your leg because you stubbed your toe. This is a feeling that's hard to change in switchers, though. Same with virus protection software (i.e., that you shouldn't even have any).
 
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