switcher@winaddict.com

Originally posted by genghiscohen
More like comparing WinXP to Mac OS X 10.1.x, rather than Jaguar. XP is basically Win2k with eye candy. They run on the same kernel, after all.
Well, I guess I shouldn't have expected you to know anything about Macs. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

The kernel is a major component of the OS but not the end all and be all of everything. Remember, We're running the same kernal as Darwin, which it partialy shares with FreeBSD. You can't honestly say that the computing experience is the same on all the machines.

All distro's of Linux run on the same kernel (with minor versioning differences) but due to window manager and configuration differences many things are different on each.

Originally posted by Winaddict
Rhino,

What's the story behind the "permission?" I haven't heard that part of the lore.

How about you tell me how to upgrade KDE from 2 to 3 on Linux... There seems to be hell of a lot of dependencies when I try to upgrade any KDE related file. It becomes a whack-a-mole problem that expands to having to upgrade 30+ files and counting.
Click to expand...

As far as I understand it Xerox wasn't going to actively develop the interface anymore and the top dogs opened up the doors to apple. Much to the dismay of all the lower ranking project managers.

I used to be die hard microsoft. I have a friend that works for them and I got to try out a few releases of whistler. The interface of the early copies were "normal". Once OS X Public Beta was released the next builds became candy colored with the "luna" interface. Earlier than that MS did something similar with win95. It was pretty much a combination of System 7 and NeXt.

Of course a lot can be said about stealing small portions of an interface and making it your own. There can only be so much innovation before you start to overlap with other OS's

As far as your KDE question, I have to say that it's an interesting upgrade for some. :D I did it when 3.0 just came out. There were upgrade instructions on KDE.org. It went smooth for me, but many of my friends have had to end up reinstalling after completely hosing Xwin.

I'll have to check back through my documentation to find the procedure I went through.
 
Hi all,

I would like to response to Rhino_G3

You are right.

"Since the advent of win2k and XP things have gotten quite a bit better on the PC side. If you have that many freezes per day on a modern computer you have some sort of a hardware conflict you really need to take care of. The last XP box I built did have serious problems. But I soon found that was due to motherboard components and a video card issue. "

I am using W2K at work and Mac OSX at home. I also have PPC 8500/120 - Yes it is slow and I am still using this baby.

Here is my point my 7 yrs old PPC 8500 dosen' t have any hardware problem then why 3 yers old PC has hardware problem. Yes, I didn't have chance to play with XP, I am sure that XP rocks for 3 yrs too.

I think that PC people should understand how much money they have to spend to do something with PC.
 
THE ONLY "WINDOWS ADDICTS" HERE ARE TROLLS!!!
Minger, please go away and spend more money on Micro$oft.
 
Originally posted by MDLarson
THE ONLY "WINDOWS ADDICTS" HERE ARE TROLLS!!!
Minger, please go away and spend more money on Micro$oft.
Click to expand...

Not to sound harsh... but to each his own. If you don't like it don't read it.
I do like to hear the other side's opinion now and again. Especialy if we have a common interest such as Linux.

I assume you wouldn't be calling me a troll but I don't see too many other people going against the blatent bashing, which has no basis.

One thing I agree about... this subject does tend to bring people out of the woodwork.
 
i remember public beta... gosh.... i loved it. oh and off subject i know, but genghiscohen, for gods feking sake! fix your icon!!!!!!
 
With PCs, I needed to have more than one because I needed to have Linux - because I needed a decent server.
I worked in Windows because I couldn't get anything decent to run on Linux, and I ended up with 4 PCs...

Then I got my Mac and got OSX... I don’t need a bunch of computers any more, and now I only turn one of the PCs on for games (the rest have been distributed to other locations I need a computer at where my only other option is not having a computer at those locations) - but damn that's an expensive "game system", so I got a Sony Playstation 2 for my games…

My biggest beef with XP is that - I HAD to upgrade my Video Card (nVidia GeForce 4 Ti) because XP rendered my video card obsolete while it worked flawlessly under 2K – while I still have the same Video Card that came with my Mac working great with the newest OS from Apple (both the PC and Mac had the same video card before I upgraded the PC’s to the Ti)

Windows vs Macs?
I only have 1 thing to say: UNIX! (that works on the Desktop!)

This is my story almost to the point :
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/giannijacklone.html
http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/giannijacklone.html

You are DEFENATLY in the WRONG place WinAddict!
 
Originally posted by Tormente
With PCs, I needed to have more than one because I needed to have Linux because I needed a decent server, I worked in Windows because I couldn't get anything decent to run on Linux, and I ended up with 4 PCs...

Then I got my Mac and got OSX...

Now I only turn one of the PCs on for games - but damn that's an expencive "game system", so I got a Sony Playstation 2...

My biggest beef with XP is that - I HAD to upgrade my Video Card (nVidia GeForce 4 Ti) because XP rendered my video card obsolete (while it worked flawlessly under 2K).

Windows vs Macs?
I only have 1 thing to say: UNIX! (that works on the Desktop!)

This is my story almost to the point :
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/giannijacklone.html
http://www.apple.com/switch/stories/giannijacklone.html

You are DEFENATLY in the WRONG place
WinAddict!
Click to expand...

I know exactly how that feels... of course I still keep my PC's around to play with and to use for file servers.

While we're on the subject HERE his my exact story.

I think me and Mr. Jeremiah Cohick would get along just fine :D
 
rhino youu are in lyons?? where is that?? im in lawrence! your the first kansan ive met here at macosx.com

id like to finslize this discution by saying that most all of us here would rather use a pc for games.
and for everything else we like osx.
so winaddict sure, pcs are great... for games...
 
Originally posted by Rhino_G3
Not to sound harsh... but to each his own. If you don't like it don't read it.
I do like to hear the other side's opinion now and again. Especialy if we have a common interest such as Linux.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know I don't have to read it, but I just keep subscribing to this thread! ;)

Anyhöö, I'm annoyed with Minger because he's got his own little forum over at the un-aptly named winaddict.com, and he's spending his time in this thread annoying people over here. (I think I just used circular reasoning.)

Maybe I'm just getting too worked up. I'll calm down. :)
 
Originally posted by satanicpoptart
rhino youu are in lyons?? where is that?? im in lawrence! your the first kansan ive met here at macosx.com

id like to finslize this discution by saying that most all of us here would rather use a pc for games.
and for everything else we like osx.
so winaddict sure, pcs are great... for games...
Click to expand...

Actualy, right now I'm in salina. (Finishing up the last year of college)

Lyons is my hometown. It's about 30 miles west of Mcpherson if you know where that is. Right smack dab in the middle of the state.
 
Originally posted by Rhino_G3
The kernel is a major component of the OS but not the end all and be all of everything. Remember, We're running the same kernal as Darwin, which it partialy shares with FreeBSD. You can't honestly say that the computing experience is the same on all the machines.

All distro's of Linux run on the same kernel (with minor versioning differences) but due to window manager and configuration differences many things are different on each.
Click to expand...

The splintering of Linux with all the distros is testament to the diversity of its user base yet a hassle with a cost; i like to install programs on Linux through RPMs, and if you're trying to install a relatively unpopular program, chances are if you're using one of the less popular distros, a binary RPM doesn't exist for it. Luckily, my distro is one of the more popular ones.

Last week, Lindows released a sub-$200 PC running Lindows 2.0. Yet another Linux distro. I wonder how much appeal it have would over the other distros if it didn't also trumpet Windows compatibility, which from the review I read on ExtremeTech doesn't even allow it to install Office 2K. Of course, trying to install Office 2K, which is relatively expensive for a $200 PC, is besides the point. You'd run StarOffice. Since it is besides the point, it's really just another Linux distro. Though it's now one sold by Wal-Mart online. When we can put it in our Costco shopping carts, we know we really have something here. I think this product is a good test of the value of the Microsoft premium to the budget conscious end of the consumer base.


As far as I understand it Xerox wasn't going to actively develop the interface anymore and the top dogs opened up the doors to apple. Much to the dismay of all the lower ranking project managers.

I used to be die hard microsoft. I have a friend that works for them and I got to try out a few releases of whistler. The interface of the early copies were "normal". Once OS X Public Beta was released the next builds became candy colored with the "luna" interface. Earlier than that MS did something similar with win95. It was pretty much a combination of System 7 and NeXt.

Of course a lot can be said about stealing small portions of an interface and making it your own. There can only be so much innovation before you start to overlap with other OS's
Click to expand...

Apple obviously has a smaller and more artistic user base. That gives it mobility and more freedom to innovate the aesthetics. With Windows in places like stodgy law firms or investment banks and a huge user base, Microsoft has most less freedom. Once you recognize this, I don't see why there is such hatred of Microsoft stodgy design or its propensity to lag. Borrowing metaphor of "Crossing the Chasm," by Geoffrey A Moore, Windows represents big fat Main Street. Apple represents the advanced edge of the curve when it comes to design aesthetics. This relationship is fundamental. The evolution the big ideas and aesthetics in Windows will come much more slowly. Microsoft has a big ship to steer. David GeLernter, who designed his own timestream file system, seems to understand this if you read his interview in American Spectator not too long back.

If you read the interview with Bill Gates in Fortune, we see that Long Horn promises to radically alter the way we think of and manipulate files. Perhaps not radical for some like GeLernter and others at the edge, but surely radical for Main Street, and perhaps even for Apple users. We'll see.

I like the look of Luna though the white and the gamma adjustment on Apple monitors is a too bright for me. I like blue candy. If Microsoft took the lead from Apple, so be it. Steve Jobs wears black but can't claim credit for originating it, and he shouldn't avoid it because he didn't. Apple is a great design hare.


As far as your KDE question, I have to say that it's an interesting upgrade for some. :D I did it when 3.0 just came out. There were upgrade instructions on KDE.org. It went smooth for me, but many of my friends have had to end up reinstalling after completely hosing Xwin.

I'll have to check back through my documentation to find the procedure I went through.
Click to expand...

I tried again and have given up for good. Trying to upgrade KDE requires the upgrading of a nest of dependencies, including rpm programs, perl, etc. I can't get to the root of these dependencies. I can make do with the KDE I have now, though if I need to update perl, I have to deal with the hassle.
 
I have XP at work on a brand new Athlon machine, it crashes twice a day.... I previously had win2k on it, it never crashed.
XP is a virus.
Windows 2000 is superb.
Mac OSX is the best in the world of unix.

Windows is a vastly superior operating system in terms of it's capabilities, when combining a Windows 2000 Server with Pro desktops you have awesome capabilities that really can't be matched with even OSX Server and OSX, without heavy reliance on opensource and third party additions.

That being said, Windows is a much better business platform for your average business user.


That being said, Mac OSX is a much better desktop platform for your average desktop user.


My 2cents.
 
Originally posted by verlorenengel
I have XP at work on a brand new Athlon machine, it crashes twice a day.... I previously had win2k on it, it never crashed.
XP is a virus.
Windows 2000 is superb.
Click to expand...

Using Win2K up to SP4? I had problems with a sluggish IE. And some firewall product would often crash the OS. Perhaps now with SP5 and IE6 SP2, Win2K is finally a rock stable OS. I don't know since I'm not using it. Corporations are by nature conservative and I can see why they put off the move to XP before issues get ironed out. In a similar way, buying a Mac is a conservative -- safe, trouble-free expectation-- move since the subset of components are expected to work together. The wide choice of the Windows ecosystem introduces intrinsic chaos.


Mac OSX is the best in the world of unix.
Click to expand...

For those already administering linux boxes remotely, and thus can't avail themselves of the slick shell, and administering cheap commodity boxes at that, OSX will require additional expenditure in hardware cost. For those with expensive software licences, as pointed out by the XScale literature, the move may prove to be a savings.

For those running unix desktops or laptops, osx = heaven?
 
Originally posted by WinAddict
Using Win2K up to SP4? I had problems with a sluggish IE. And some firewall product would often crash the OS. Perhaps now with SP5 and IE6 SP2, Win2K is finally a rock stable OS. I don't know since I'm not using it. Corporations are by nature conservative and I can see why they put off the move to XP before issues get ironed out. In a similar way, buying a Mac is a conservative -- safe, trouble-free expectation-- move since the subset of components are expected to work together. The wide choice of the Windows ecosystem introduces intrinsic chaos.

For those already administering linux boxes remotely, and thus can't avail themselves of the slick shell, and administering cheap commodity boxes at that, OSX will require additional expenditure in hardware cost. For those with expensive software licences, as pointed out by the XScale literature, the move may prove to be a savings.

For those running unix desktops or laptops, osx = heaven?
Click to expand...

Windows 2K DOES NOT have SP4 or 5!!! Only SP3 and it released a month ago or so...

And yes while it solved many problems it raised some new ones! How typical of M$ ;)

As for all other things: Simply BS! Yes I can have here and there WHEN and IF I need Win(any version) or Linux or (insert ANY OS here) but why select the Wintel platform and especially the Windows XP (eXtra Pain) when I can DO my work better with less in general by selecting OS X? We told the whole world that they NEED computers and then told them that they NEED Wintel ones! How dumb is this? And if any Wintel user really KNOWS that Wintel may NOT be the best solution for everything out there, why the majority of Windows users continues to push THAT solution?

I know for sure that 90% (or even more) of computer companies do not care for their customers and that's why they continue to push the Wintel platform up to their customers behinds... Why? The answer is SO simple: Because IF they start pushing the Apple side they will NOT have THAT much of income because:
-A Mac lasts longer than ANY Wintel box
-A Mac is easier to use (so the user will not call or pay a visit for tech stuff)
-A Mac works!
The above and MANY other things SCARE the computer companies because they simply exist by blood-sucking their customers because of the problems of Wintel platform... And they know that by each new Wintel product, NEW blood will come: Always does and always will...

As for the WinAddicts of this world: Enjoy the blood sucking of Wintel but watch out for the Vampire Hunters of this world (OS X, Linux, et al) cause when they strike YOU the same vampires ENVY them because of the swift and graceful way of taking you down...

Yes, I know WinAddict that it hurts you SO much for NOT having that sweet Dual G4/1.25 with X.2 and instead you MUST use that old boring Xtra Pain...

I know that it hurts you for NOT being able to burn a DVD, listen to an MP3, browse the Internet, copy those files from the CD-ROM, import your new digital pictures of your last trip to that AWESOME island while exporting that new playlist of your favorite MP3s on you iPod and sharing your Office documents across your company network with your colleaques AT THE SAME TIME without worrying of crashing the system or your apps or your workflow or your NERVES!!!

Oh, I guess is just me: I prefer the airplane over train or I prefer the remote control instead of walking on the TV for changing stations... Yes, it must be me for not liking the Wintel aka Dark Side of the Force :D

Think Different! Or should Apple have said in the first place to their possible customers just: THINK!
 
Originally posted by verlorenengel
I have XP at work on a brand new Athlon machine, it crashes twice a day.... I previously had win2k on it, it never crashed.
XP is a virus.
Click to expand...

Didn't McAfee or Norton AV warn users Windows 98 was a virus after they had just upgraded from 95 to 98 (when 98 was first released)? Damn those programs were good, wondered what happened with them not reconginizing ME or XP.
 
What utter bullsh*t.
I love my mac as much as the next guy but to be honest the above couple of posts are just examples of typical mac zealots.

Yes, whilst iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie and all the other iApps are easy to use and generally one-click with a consistent interface..
The same can be accomplished on a PC, the only difference is it requires a few more clicks and less standard interface to the apps.

I would never use a windows machine at home, but at work - my windows machine is simply economically more viable and works just as well.
 
Originally posted by verlorenengel
What utter bullsh*t.
I love my mac as much as the next guy but to be honest the above couple of posts are just examples of typical mac zealots.

Yes, whilst iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie and all the other iApps are easy to use and generally one-click with a consistent interface..
The same can be accomplished on a PC, the only difference is it requires a few more clicks and less standard interface to the apps.

I would never use a windows machine at home, but at work - my windows machine is simply economically more viable and works just as well.
Click to expand...

NO you CANNOT accomplish the same things on the PC... NOT even with MANY extra clicks... Your statement is ALL WRONG... Are you sure you use a PC at work? Or even a Mac at home? Maybe you use one of the two just ALL wrong!

And if the couple replies above your reply were from Mac zealots that makes you a PC zealot? As for your PC being economically more viable than the Mac maybe you meant the other way around, huh? Or that Mac is viable ANY way while the PC isn't viable in ANY way...
 
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