Thank God for the Europeans - regarding Microsoft

karavite

karavite

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Interesting article in the NY Times about the Europeans going after Microsoft for the same old tricks in WIndows XP (you need to register to see the article, but it is free).

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/12/business/worldbusiness/12SOFT.html

How much do you want to bet that MS will use Apple as an example of other companies who bundle software? Mail = Outlook, Moviemaker = iMovies, Windows media player = Quicktime... to support their own practices.

Of course this argument conveniently ignores strong arm tactics and a whole host of slimy issues with MS, but the Europeans are less prone to the total breakdown (IMO) of our legal system in cracking down on MS.

Another point of the article is the stifling of innovation that MS has created. I wish people would realize that what contributed to so much innovation in the 90s (not counting the dot coms) was competition! Imagine the tech economy if MS had been severly punished and/or broken up (they only make a profit on Windows you know). Think of all the cool new things we would all be dying to buy for ourselves and/or our business?

Any way, it would be nice if the French and Germans declared war on MS! :)
 
Apples to Apples and fenestration to fenestration. I can't imagine that anyone would take the bundling argument seriously when it comes to Apple.

I do believe that Europe has declared war on M$ and the major weapon is Linux. If you were a foreign gov't, would you want to entrust the welfare of your citizens to the leaky worm-eaten ship called M$?

Now that the US is shamelessly courting the newest NATO allies and threatening to abandon many of its German bases (economic retaliation pure and simple due to the fact that Germany won't condone the attack on Iraq) I don't doubt that Germany and France will continue to turn their back on M$. Whew, was that a runon sentence or what.

I have recently been reading a lot about German/US history. I entered into the project thinking that the Marshall Plan was a sign of America's generosity. What it was was no more than a ploy to keep the communists out of western Europe.

I hope that the new NATO members realize that once the US' objectives have been met, the US gov't will have forgotten all promises that have been made.

Oops, a little off topic, but I do hope that the EU is able to stand up to M$.
 
I was thinking yesterday if to post a link to THIS article but I was too lazy to translate it. (It's in Italian). Basically Bill is accused or will be accused in Europe (EU) for abusing his monopoly position. So after California he'll have problems in Europe.
 
Originally posted by Ugg
Apples to Apples and fenestration to fenestration. I can't imagine that anyone would take the bundling argument seriously when it comes to Apple.
Click to expand...

I agree, but didn't MS also say something to the effect of Linux/open source is a threat to our cherished socio-economic fabric if not our very freedom...? I don't think you can put anything past them in terms of defense/tactics or leaps of logic, no matter how absurd.

Also, you are right about Linux - I was suprised that this list didn't include a certain big company known for really pushing Linux.

Ciao Giaguara! I wonder what would happen to that page if we ran it through the Alta Vista translator? :)
 
Evidence to say that such an argument (Apple also bundles software) is rediculous:
1. I can remove iMovie
2. I can remove IE and Safari
3. I can remove Mail
4. I can remove iChat
5. Well, you get the idea....
 
Originally posted by sheepguy42
Evidence to say that such an argument (Apple also bundles software) is rediculous:
Click to expand...

Of course it is ridiculous - I am saying they are not beyond ridiculous arguments and their ridiculous arguments have worked here in the US.
 
Originally posted by Ugg
Apples to Apples and fenestration to fenestration. I can't imagine that anyone would take the bundling argument seriously when it comes to Apple.
Click to expand...

I agree, but didn't MS also say something to the effect of Linux/open source is a threat to our cherished socio-economic fabric if not our very freedom...? I don't think you can put anything past them in terms of defense/tactics or leaps of logic, no matter how absurd.

Also, you are right about Linux - I was suprised that this list didn't include a certain big company known for really pushing Linux.

Ciao Giaguara! I wonder what would happen to that page if we ran it through the Alta Vista translator? :)
 
Try the altavista.. it's not the best - nor is the article - but it probably gets it more or less right. :)
 
Originally posted by Giaguara
Try the altavista.. it's not the best - nor is the article - but it probably gets it more or less right. :)
Click to expand...

It reads like Tonto of the Lone Ranger or something! I guess it is impossible to capture the passion of the Italian language! Maybe I should try Altavista on some of the things my Italian mother in law says - that is if they do not have parental controls on the translator! :) Oh well, so much for technology!

Eppure, li ringrazio per il collegamento a questo articolo!
 
You know, Corporations are widely regarded as evil, money grubbing entities. And alot of them are. However they take second place to the real evil, money grubbing entities: Governments.

The Europeans are going after Microsoft for the same reason the US DOJ did back in the 90's. Money. They see an opportunity to milk MS for millions, and they are going to take it.

If you think the Clinton DOJ pursued Microsoft because it wanted a fair and balanced playing field for software companies, think again. The US Gov't is probably the single biggest customer of Microsoft. If they so desired, they could (and can in some instances) use softare/OSes from other companies. But they choose MS most of the time.

As for Uggs comments about Germany and the Marshall Plan.... You can't really evaluate it through today's current climate. When it was introduced the world was a much different place. Germany was the barrier between the free world and the evil empire that was the USSR. It was a vital US interest. If you think that any country demonstrates compassion based on genorosity, then I have real estate on the moon I'd like to sell you. Every decision any country makes regarding aid is based upon that country's vital interests. (Using this trusim you can then ask your self "Why are France & Germany so steadfastly against a US led liberation of Iraq? Could it be the $60 billion in under the table oil contracts the French have with the Iraqis? Could it be that the Germans involvement with Iraqs nuclear ambitions are more serious than already known?)

The only "country" that ever makes a decision based solely on good nature would be the Vatican, and even they can be suspect at times....
 
Originally posted by serpicolugnut
The only "country" that ever makes a decision based solely on good nature would be the Vatican, and even they can be suspect at times.... [/B]
Click to expand...

Ohno, they use Windows 95 in Vatican. :)
I had some visitors from there, first they were using '95, the last time either 98 or 2K (bad memory) but still Windows. If I'd convert Vatican to OS X or Linux would I go to Heaven ..? :p
 
" Windows XP - law in the text - viola the European norm in competition matter, and in particular viola Article 82 of Deals through one immense series to you of anticompetitive behaviors ".
Click to expand...
:p Uhh.. Ok I'll save you from Babelfish and Altavista! Sorry. :)

Very roughly THIS as my quick translation:

Accused Windows XP
For the violation of the European normatives of competition
The competitors of Windows: "All the businesses and consumers are being damaged."

BRUXELLES - The problems of Bill Gates are moving to Europe. The CCIA, the platform that combines the IT sector (like Yahoo!, Oracle, Casio, AOL) has announced to have left a complaint to the European Commission, asking them to "Stop the various forms of abuse concerning XP", the latest release of the house Microsoft.
The accuse is disotrtion of competition, and maintaining of the monopoly position. The same accuse has been following Gates for years, from the antitrust Usa crisis. But if the problems of the giant Microsoft seem to have ridimensioned (diminuished) in the US, now they will emerge in Europe.

"The latest version of XP - afferms the CCIA about the concern made to EU - brings the abusive practises of Microsoft to a new level, protecting illegally the actual monopoly of Microsoft and eliminating the competition in the sector of new software and the market of the services". A heavy accuse contained in a dossier of 260 pages, presented to the executive of the EU the last January 31, but was made public only today (that was 11 Feb).

"Windows XP - is written on the text - violates the European normatives about the competition, and especially it violates the article 82 by a long series of behaviours disabling (discouraging) competition."

"Our complaint - commented the president of CCIA, Ed Black - describes how Microsoft abuses of its dominant position on the markets of the oprative systems for personal computers, browsers, and applications for personal use". And Thomas Vinje, the lawyer of CCIA that will follow the case, continues "There are two very clear facts that giustify the decision: Windows XP has been planned to maintain the existing monopoly and to extend it to the new markets (??)". A damage that according to the CCIA doesn't limit to affect only the producers, but "reaches every angle of Europe and damages virtually every business and consumer that uses a computer".

Hopefully that is a bit more comprensible than Altavista. As my excuse some things make more sense in orignal .. Correct if it's still really bad. :p
 
Originally posted by serpicolugnut
Why are France & Germany so steadfastly against a US led liberation of Iraq? Could it be the $60 billion in under the table oil contracts the French have with the Iraqis? Could it be that the Germans involvement with Iraqs nuclear ambitions are more serious than already known?
Click to expand...

"US led liberation of Iraq" - now that's funny. As if the US has any interest in actually "liberating" Iraq! The only thing in US interests is to replace Saddam with someone more "US-friendly". Democracy in Iraq is the last thing Bush & co. would want, because the majority of Iraqis (60%) are Shiite Arab Muslims, who sympathise with the muslims in Iran. Power in Iraq is in the hands of Sunni Arabs, who account for only 20% of the population, and any new government put in place by the US after a war (which in itself is sure to cause more misery to the Iraqi people than Saddam ever could on his own) would most likely be just another reign of terror from the people's point of view.<br>
I guess you don't hear much about this from Dubya, Rummy, Colin, Condi & friends, though...
<br><br>
Oops, off topic. Shoot me. :)
 
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