The OS X interface is starting to really get under my skin.

T

Travis86

Registered
I've been using a Mac for five months now. It's allways "I just need to get used to it." "If I can only get used to it." "Only need to assimilate." And I'm finally sick of it! Sorry if I appear like I'm about to blow, but I think I am. I've been keeping it in for so long.

The windows look like paper stacked on top of each other by a drunk guy throwing them from across the room with his eyes closed! You call this an evironment that inspires creativity? It's all I can do to get from one window to the other, much less keep my train of thought. In Windows, there's a task bar that shows you were all of your windows are, so you can go from one to the other easily. The windows maximize to fill the screen neatly. There is no way to see all of the windows in OS X except for that dreadful Exposé, which makes all of the windows illegibly small, so it's impossible to find the one you want. The maximize button in OS X works irratically, if at all.

... There. I don't feel much better, but anybody have any ideas?

Those of you who want to tell me to go back to Windows because I'm not a "Mac Person" can keep their mouth shut. I don't know how one would become a "Mac Person," but it appears to be something like a religion.

Thanks, everyone.
 
i dont know what to tell you. i dont even have a mac yet, and im in love with the interface. i cant wait to get away from windows. maybe try and customize the options a bit more to your liking.
 
The maximize feature maximizes to content within the window, instead of filling up the entire screen. Without going into detail, Apple chose this method instead of the "Windows" way because it allows dragging between windows. That in mind, some programs (most of Mozilla's products, for example) do not maximize in the way that windows in OS X are supposed to, taking more of a Windows approach, and working with uncertainty as to how the window will actually maximize can indeed be frustrating.

It seems like your major grievance is with OS X's window management, probably the most frequent complaint from Windows switchers. The bottom line is that there really isn't much you can do about that. You either like it or you don't. Personally I've grown to like Panther's window management after using OS X on a regular basis, and when I use Windows XP now I usually keep my windows unmaximized.

If you haven't done so already, maybe you should familiarize yourself with keystrokes like "command ~", which switches between windows in the frontmost app, and "command tab", which is like alt tab on windows. I usually use a combination of those keystrokes to move between windows. "Option Command Click" on dock icons will hide all windows except those in the application you click on, which can also be useful, and you can perform an action (close, minimize, etc.) on all windows in a certain app by holding option while typing the normal keystroke. There are others too, none of which I recall at the moment, but generally there is a keystroke to manipulate a window in any way you could imagine. That's a major difference between OS X and XP, and one that makes it all the more worthwhile to learn keystrokes.

Also I would recommend that you explore the benefits dragging. OS X's window management is designed specially to allow you to drag things from place to place. You can drag anything from text, to pictures, to files, and you can drag them to places you might not expect, like dragging a picture to the address bar to reveal its URL. Seriously, play around with dragging. Being a "mac person" has much to do with dragging from place to place instead of opening half a dozen contextual menus to accomplish the same task.
 
You know, you have helped me. In trying to explain all this, I have figured it out. BBEdit is the culprit. It doesn't support Command-~ window switching, and it obviously doesn't have tabs. I am thinking I might try this new text editor called Smultron, which does have tabs (well, a list, actually). It is terribly difficult to switch between BBEdit windows. On my old computer, I could never do anything this complex, so that is part of it too. The finder is also a bit hard to deal with, as well. I never have more than two windows open in the other programs I use, so it isn't such a big problem.

I liked the Mac interface before I had one, too. But if you've never had a Mac, you've probably never done something complicated on it before.
I'm trying to develop a database-driven web application. I have two Terminal windows (one for MySQL, the other to restart the server and such), eight BBEdit windows (mostly configuration files, also help files), two heavily-tabbed Firefox windows (one for my application, the other for help pages on the Internet), two or three Finder windows, and sometimes a Dreamweaver window.

If I want to edit a configuration file, restart the server, and see how it looks in the browser, it's sort of hard to jump between specific windows. It's really hard when what I was trying to do didn't work, and I have to go between the help pages and the pertinant files, check Finder windows to see if the files are in the right place, make changes, restart the server, check the browser, and so on. The last thing I need is have the interface get in the way!

Hmmm... I think I'm starting to feel better. :p

Also, Henry, I didn't know the philosophy behind the Mac's maximizing. In most of the programs in which I've tried it, it didn't work (Firefox and BBEdit). I guess that's good ... when it works.

That Command-option-click thing is pretty neat. I didn't know about that. I found a few more useful ones on the Internet.
 
You also might want to try third-party application launchers, like Blacktree Quicksilver. That tool in particular is indispensable to my everyday work. I use it constantly without even thinking about it, and it seems overly difficult to get places when I use Macs without that software.

http://quicksilver.blacktree.com/
It's a free beta right now.
 
Travis86 said:
Those of you who want to tell me to go back to Windows because I'm not a "Mac Person" can keep their mouth shut. I don't know how one would become a "Mac Person," but it appears to be something like a religion.
Click to expand...
How did you become a "Windows Person"? I can't use a Windows system as productively as a Mac.

If you want a Mac that acts like Windows... sorry, go use Windows. Macs are Macs, Windows is Windows.

I work with a half dozen operating systems each day, none of them are exactly alike, and I don't try to inflict my views of a perfect operating system on them. You learn to use the environment the way it was designed to work.

So, your not going to like it, but either stop fighting your system and learn why things are the way they are, or go back to Windows. If you can't learn (and it sounds like you can't) how to use a non-Windows system effectively, then stay with Windows. Trying to inflict the "Windows way" on a non-Windows system is a recipe for disaster.

There is nothing wrong with using what works best for you. You talk about longing for Windows features... that is a sure sign that Windows is your calling. And you should answer it!

If you decide you want help in learning how to get the most from your Mac, I'd be happy to help... after you drop the attitude and insults of course.

Have a nice day. ;)
 
In Expose, if you are using the default settings:

F10 will show all open windows in the front application which is like Expose-F9 for all applications (of course, BBEdit does have a stack or tile command much like what Windows will do). In addition, once F10ed, you can then tab through each open application with the respective open windows all neatly arranged for easy picking.

Of course, command-Tab (command-shift-tab for the reverse direction) will bring up the Windows-like application bar to switch between applications themselves.

Does that help?

Travis86 said:
There is no way to see all of the windows in OS X except for that dreadful Exposé, which makes all of the windows illegibly small, so it's impossible to find the one you want.
Click to expand...
 
Check out SubEthaEdit too - it's a rather nice, open source, OS X editor. I've been using it more or less since it became available - I tried it out, and more or less abandoned BBEdit on the spot.
 
not everyone is going to have the same experience. some people really are better suited for windows. just because you thinks its all a sloppy mess doesn't mean we all do. I would much rather run osx because its based on the most solid os on earth, bsd. its not some hunk of crappy coding all mashed in together like windows is but some do like and prefer windows because everyone is different.

seems you just don't get macs and are more suited for wintell.
 
It's been said before, but with our 21 and 23 inch monitors, does it make much sense anymore to MAXIMIZE every application to fill the whole screen? Look at a maximized Windows app on a big monitor (in hires). Lots of wasted space.

Same thing with tabbed windows in Windows. It seems to me that many of them were designed for 14 " 800x600 screens. Not enough on each tab. *I'm talking about Windows control panels, etc.

Having said that, the sense of not being able to accurately place windows bothered me when I first switched to Macs. I still don't like apps that offset new windows down and to the right. I end up moving them back up. I have since gotten used to them, and windows work just fine for me now.

Get _Mac OS X: The Missing Manual_ by David Pogue. You'll be glad you did. It's not just for novice users.

Doug
 
Yeah. If only Swiss German keyboards even _had_ the ~key. We get to this through Opt-N, which basically means we simply can't switch windows. :/
 
But isn't < on the same key as ,? Wouldn't that mean you'll have to use the Shift key as well?
 
Travis86,

Another way: You can also usually use an application's Dock icon to switch to different windows, using the mouse of course. Right click on the icon . . .

Now don't you just feel a little silly? "Oh, I hate WindowsXP! There's no keyboard shortcut for closing a program!!! Its windows look like they were designed by a drunken committee! On acid. With no aesthetic appreciation. Or consideration for the user!!!!!!!

Oh. It's ALT F4? Uh, yeah. I didn't know that!" ;)

Doug
 
I don't know if any one said this, but command clicking on a dock icon also gives you a list of all open windows, which when you think about it is the same sort of thing XP does by default when you have a lot of windows open in one program to save space on your task bar.
 
ignore the size of the monitor. mazimising most things on a widescreen even a "measley" 20-inch is ridiculous. Yes, it is useful when writing code that isn't wrapped, or doing graphics. but email/browsing/etc aren't MEANT to be widescreen. it doesn't work. So you simply have two windows side-by-side, or admire your background :)
 
I think too many over zealous mac fanatics tend to over sell the apple computer/osx as the perfect computer. UNfortunately, there is no PERFECT computer or operating system. they all do some things right, and they all have little things that could be done differently or better.
As was already mentioned, mac is mac, windows is windows. mac doesn't do things like windows, otherwise it would be windows, and no one would have to worry about switching.

I'm just speaking in general here - I've gotten to talk to a few people who were lured by the assumptions that the mac was the end to all computer woes.
Apple hardware/software IS fantastic. It's also different than windows/pc stuff, which is what makes it better or worse than the win/pc world - depending on who you ask.

I work so much better/faster on a mac than I ever did on a pc. there are things that are different, and things that I've adapted to. it's how it is. give and take I suppse.
most of us here can and will gladly help get around those differences. ask away.
everyone's already hit the tips/tricks I'd have added, so I'll just leave my observation and be done. :)
 
RacerX...well said!

I am a "dual user". My desktop/work-hoarse/storage machine is a desktop Win XP machine. My portable is a Mac. Both are excellent for different things and both have limitations as has been pointed out. But your point about the Mac being designed for drag and drop is exactly why they don't do the maximise thing and something I had not fully taken in until now. I must admit I initially found window management a whole lot quicker on Windows vs Mac but once you get used to the different methods of getting around this, it's fine on the Mac. Of course it goes without saying that using a Mac is just more fun...can't put my finger on it but these things seem to have a personality unlike a Windows box.

So Travis...it's apples and oranges. And how about posting future messages without the negative (ie. ..shutup..) attitude?

Cheers..Scott
 
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