The Subnotebook
- Thread starter fryke
- Start date
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
there's a lovelly little vaio at the moment, i mentioned before - 10" screen - very dinky. reduced size keyboard, but really not by much at all. still very functional. better screen res than a 15"pBook. overall - you could still make it smaller - remove the optical drive, make the screen smaller, but with the same ppi, say 1024x700. my g5 tower isnt very portable 
. i could be tampted, if it was about £800
. i could be tampted, if it was about £800
The problem with those is that they're running Windows XP Pro. And while you _can_ install linux on them, I hear that drivers for the special hardware are harder to come by... Friend of mine has one, had to actually _buy_ a driver for the WiFi card etc. And: It's just no Mac, even when running linux with a decent Gnome installation. But they _are_ tempting, aren't they... Makes me wish they could run Mac OS X for Intel. But I'd rather see Apple make a subnotebook. Hence the thread - and hence the VAIOs don't answer my prayers...
But they _are_ tempting, aren't they... Makes me wish they could run Mac OS X for Intel. But I'd rather see Apple make a subnotebook. Hence the thread - and hence the VAIOs don't answer my prayers...
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
the fact they are running windows and are made by sony just shows that the hardware is there for apple to utilise, but that they need to exercise their magic on it. imagine the vaio's size, and level of technology, but apple taking it one step further to replce the 12" pb. which at the moment, is shite. the vaio is just a very good example of innovation hampered by wintel domination
Lt Major Burns said:
I think I disagree. Innovation and commercial viability are almost never a guaranteed sure thing. Sony, Apple and Microsoft are all in biz to make money.
Sony is providing a hardware platform.
If Microsoft _OR_ Apple were in a position and of a mind to innovate, either one step up. Obviously, neither is. You can *not* discount Apple's cool products, shiny interface and user-friendly nature. You can *not* discount Microsoft's *apparent* dominance in the market place.
If Apple wanted to innovate and thought the mini Viao was viable, they would spend some time compiling and tweaking their OS core to run on Intel. If Sony thought there was a market, they would build a PPC version of the system. If Microsoft thought there was a market, they would licensce Darwin (or some ther open source OS) and get with Apple to make it happen.
Can we all just step back from the Apple/Wintel wars for just a sec and remember something... it was the consumers who made Windows what it is today. It's not like Gates woke up one morning and said, "Today is the day I take over the world" and *poof* there it was. Remember, Windows went thru' many, many revisions and releases before it found the market viability that Apple, NeXT, Unix and many others never really did.
And looking around at the the computer landscape you can see it's been an excercise in evolution for far, far longer than in revolution (or innovation).
I think we've reached "maintenance mode" in the current computing model. The next big innovation will be in *true* universal voice recognition and/or 3d interfacing and perhaps visual gesture recognition (a la Minority Report). Separation of the visual interface (GUI) and gearing processing more towards universal interfacing (GUI, Voice, Gestures, ...) is the next logical step.
$.02
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
you misunderstand!
the vaio shouldn't run macos. ever. it's just not an apple mac! it's technically very good, way ahead on the gadgetery, but the aesthetics let it down - it's just not very ergonomic - the powerbooks at the moment look so clean, because it was an ethic to keep it clean - no doors, flaps, or hooks to catch on something. the bottom is perfectly smooth, as is the top.
what i was saying was not a mac/xp war, just that the technology of the pBooks market rivals is leaving them for dust - when the g4 powerbooks came out, they were revolutionary! noone had seen any laptop this thin or small, so smooth and just very high quality. full of the latest technology and designed with everything in mind. even more so with the g3 powerbook (wallstreets?). sh*t, that was so revolutionary, intel laptops were copying the design almost shamelessly for about 6/7 years!
and now, the powerbooks look tired. a design that's been out longer than any other apple hardware at the moment. the technology is there to be innovative again, in the way apple is known so well for, they just need to unleash the new powerbooks. that vaio i used just as an example of what the rivals are doing, and that it's making the pbooks look stupid. i want a laptop, but i'll be damned if i buy a current powerbook.... too expensive for a 5 year old laptop.
http://www.macintouch.com/pbg4review.html
the vaio shouldn't run macos. ever. it's just not an apple mac! it's technically very good, way ahead on the gadgetery, but the aesthetics let it down - it's just not very ergonomic - the powerbooks at the moment look so clean, because it was an ethic to keep it clean - no doors, flaps, or hooks to catch on something. the bottom is perfectly smooth, as is the top.
what i was saying was not a mac/xp war, just that the technology of the pBooks market rivals is leaving them for dust - when the g4 powerbooks came out, they were revolutionary! noone had seen any laptop this thin or small, so smooth and just very high quality. full of the latest technology and designed with everything in mind. even more so with the g3 powerbook (wallstreets?). sh*t, that was so revolutionary, intel laptops were copying the design almost shamelessly for about 6/7 years!
and now, the powerbooks look tired. a design that's been out longer than any other apple hardware at the moment. the technology is there to be innovative again, in the way apple is known so well for, they just need to unleash the new powerbooks. that vaio i used just as an example of what the rivals are doing, and that it's making the pbooks look stupid. i want a laptop, but i'll be damned if i buy a current powerbook.... too expensive for a 5 year old laptop.
http://www.macintouch.com/pbg4review.html
I think you're deep inside that reality distortion field. Nobody copied the PB G3's design, really.
On the other hand: I don't think the PB's design (the Alubooks) feels old. What I'm talking about, what this thread is about, is that I'd want Apple to do a subnotebook.
On the other hand: I don't think the PB's design (the Alubooks) feels old. What I'm talking about, what this thread is about, is that I'd want Apple to do a subnotebook.
RacerX
Old Rhapsody User
Apple didn't even copy the PowerBook G3... the design was bad for business.
Take my PowerBook (Wallstreet) as an example. It takes almost no time at all for me to replace RAM and the hard drive, I was able to add a second hard drive and replaced the CD-ROM expansion bay module with a CD-RW one. Add on top of that, the processor was a daughter card that could be replaced whole with a newer processor (a G4/500 in my case).
I'll tell you, Apple isn't sitting back looking at someone like me who is still using a system from September 1998 with any form of pride... they are looking at me as lost revenue. Which they should... I would have bought a new system long ago had I not been able to nurse this one as long as I have.
And I think Apple realized this early on with the PowerBook G3s, which was why they took the iBook design in a completely different direction (as in almost completely unserviceable by the end user). That move didn't hurt Apple, in fact it helped. When a hard drive on a iBook or PowerBook G4 isn't large enough any more, people sell their old systems and buy new ones. Why, because it is less expensive (and less trouble) to just move to a new system.
As for the need for a subnotebook... yeah, I sort of see it (though to a degree I think both the 12" PowerBooks and iBooks serve this area).
I was in need for a small computer for school a few months ago. As I'm not rolling in cash, I looked closely at my needs and ended up with a PowerBook Duo 2300c (about $90US for both the PowerBook and maxing out the RAM). With an old system like that I was able to get older (but still very functional) software for my needs (Mathematica for $50US and Theorist for $35US) along with a ton of software I already had.
I have no idea what you guys were thinking a new subnotebook would run, but if I had to buy the current versions of my math software (Mathematica would have run me $1800US and LiveMath, aka Theorist, $300US) it would have been out of the question.
I was thinking about a 2400c, but the fact that I could have installed Rhapsody on it would have been too much of a distraction from my school work. I realized this was a problem with both my PowerBook G3 (Mac OS X) and ThinkPad (Rhapsody/OPENSTEP), which is why I needed a system that could keep me on task... which the 2300c (Mac OS 8.6) does quite nicely.
Take my PowerBook (Wallstreet) as an example. It takes almost no time at all for me to replace RAM and the hard drive, I was able to add a second hard drive and replaced the CD-ROM expansion bay module with a CD-RW one. Add on top of that, the processor was a daughter card that could be replaced whole with a newer processor (a G4/500 in my case).
I'll tell you, Apple isn't sitting back looking at someone like me who is still using a system from September 1998 with any form of pride... they are looking at me as lost revenue. Which they should... I would have bought a new system long ago had I not been able to nurse this one as long as I have.
And I think Apple realized this early on with the PowerBook G3s, which was why they took the iBook design in a completely different direction (as in almost completely unserviceable by the end user). That move didn't hurt Apple, in fact it helped. When a hard drive on a iBook or PowerBook G4 isn't large enough any more, people sell their old systems and buy new ones. Why, because it is less expensive (and less trouble) to just move to a new system.
As for the need for a subnotebook... yeah, I sort of see it (though to a degree I think both the 12" PowerBooks and iBooks serve this area).
I was in need for a small computer for school a few months ago. As I'm not rolling in cash, I looked closely at my needs and ended up with a PowerBook Duo 2300c (about $90US for both the PowerBook and maxing out the RAM). With an old system like that I was able to get older (but still very functional) software for my needs (Mathematica for $50US and Theorist for $35US) along with a ton of software I already had.
I have no idea what you guys were thinking a new subnotebook would run, but if I had to buy the current versions of my math software (Mathematica would have run me $1800US and LiveMath, aka Theorist, $300US) it would have been out of the question.
I was thinking about a 2400c, but the fact that I could have installed Rhapsody on it would have been too much of a distraction from my school work. I realized this was a problem with both my PowerBook G3 (Mac OS X) and ThinkPad (Rhapsody/OPENSTEP), which is why I needed a system that could keep me on task... which the 2300c (Mac OS 8.6) does quite nicely.
Well: Specific purposes aside, I'm thinking that the subnotebook should cater to the widest audience possible. So it _should_ run everything. Of course its size and screen resolution might limit its use for highend graphics and video (unless you attach another display at work, for example).
MY personal need is a veeeeery little typewriter.
MY personal need is a veeeeery little typewriter.
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Same with me, except I'd prefer a typewriter so tiny that I could keep it in my pocket with me all the time (and it'd be great if it could play MPEG4 video as wellfryke said:MY personal need is a veeeeery little typewriter.
).i.e. Really a Newton II with a built in thumboard (and a full size keyboard accessory), rather than a 10" PB, but I'll take anything I can get.
Kap
hmm... I'm picturing a device (geared towards writers/editors/etc) that is an unfoldable keyboard (a la the Palm external keyboard) that has a very small lcd screen for a few lines of text and has media slots for the modern media cards (compact flash, mem stick, SD, etc). That should work out to be a $99 device at the absolute most.
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I've pictured this device as well (minus the card slots - I figured it would just have built in memory and sync to a computer directly via USB).chornbe said:
Unfortunately, AlphaSmart doesn't quite agree with our pricing.
Kap
P.S. However, I later decided that I would prefer more of a PDA like size with thumboard and the option of a keyboard attachment - very difficult to use a keyboard while lying down in bed or at the beach.
I know I'm reviving a *very* old thread... Just wanted to thank Apple here. More than five years after my wish (well, the wish was certainly older, but this was _the_ thread about it), Apple produced the 11" MacBook Air, which finally was really small enough for me. Not quite the 10h battery life, but I can live with that for now.