They stole our Duck!!

Originally posted by AdmiralAK
Interested in languages here:
Does belgium have a "unique" language..i.e. belgian or does it speak dutch + french ?

Belgium is divided into three territorial entities ("gewesten"): Vlaams Gewest (northern part of Belgium), Waals Gewest (southern part of Belgium), Brussels Hoofdstedelijk (=capitol) Gewest. The three entities each have their own government.

Belgium is also devided into three cultural entities ("gemeenschappen"): Vlaamse Gemeenschap (language: Dutch), Waalse Gemeenschap (lang.: French), Duitse (=german) Gemeenschap (language: Duits). Dutch (Nederlands), French (franais) and German (Deutsch) are the three official languages.

Remark 1: the German-speaking part of the population doesn't have its own "gewest", because there aren't enough of them to justify their own "gewest". The "Oostkantons" (german-speaking part of Belgium, acquired by Belgium after World War I) is part of the "Waalse Gewest".

Remark 2: The "Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest" is the Belgian capitol city, and is strictly bi-lingual (Dutch & French)

Remark 3: There are cities in French-speaking part of Belgium with Dutch-speaking inhabitants and vice versa. The minorities in those cities/communities have special facilities to protect their rights.

Public schools are obliged to teach in the official language of the "Gewest" they're in: Dutch in Vlaanderen, French in Wallonia.

Belgium is a federation: there is a federal government (www.fgov.be), responsible for all things that are important to all Belgians (defence, police, justice, agriculture, foreign affairs, internal affairs, foreign trade, traffic, ...)

The Gewesten are responsible for all things territorial that are not controlled by the federal government.

The Gemeenschappen are responsible for all things personal (culture, education, ...)

---

Data: there are...
6 million dutch-speaking inhabitants
4 million french-speaking inhabitants
a couple of 10,000 german-speaking inhabitants

--

Why does it have to be this complex for only 10,000,000 people?
Belgium gained its independence from The Netherlands in 1830. At that time, the french-speaking part of Belgium was industrialized, the dutch-speaking part was agricultural.... the french-speaking nobles, industrials, businessmen took control over Belgium. All administration was in French, higher education was in French, courts of law where in French (common people in Flanders/Vlaanderen didn't understand what the judges where saying), dutch speaking people where belittled, they were close to being called "savages", ... (a typical example of oppression of one people by an other people -- cfr. Hutu's and Tutsi's in Rwanda, the Balkan, and so on...).

Protest against the domination of the french-speaking "elite" was organized in the late 19th century (by people like the roman catholic priest "Daems", among others) but wasn't very effective. The bourgeois people in the cities kept using French for their every-day affairs. In World War I, a minority of frustrated dutch-speaking people collaborated with the Germans because they promised to give power to the Flemish. After WW-I this collaboration of a minority of the Flemish movement was used by the french-speaking elite to oppress the Flemish movement (including the majority who did not collaborate with the Germans) even more.

During World War II, a larger part (but still a minority) of the Flemish movement collaborated with the Germans. --- Strange enough: there were also french-speaking collaborationists (they declared themselves "french-speaking-germanians"). ---

During both wars Flemish soldiers died because they did not understand the orders they were given by the french-speaking officers.

After WW-II it became clear that something had to be done, we've had 4 major state reforms since 1960, (last one this year) - these reforms are always very difficult to negotiate: the Flemish want as much independence as possible, the french-speaking want a centralized state. It always ends with the Flemish giving tons of money to the Waals Gewest to have them sign the agreements. (The Flemish economy is very strong compared to the Waals Gewest's coal-, steel-, mining- industry.

---

To answer your question: there is not one official language is Belgium, but three (Dutch, French, German).
Note: the Dutch spoken in Belgium is sometimes referred to as "Flemish" because there are a few (extremely minor) differences in pronunciation and vocabulary if compared to the Dutch spoken in The Netherlands. There is no real reason to call my language "Flemish" and I never do: most people who call it "Flemish" are neo-fascist seperatists (about 15 percent of Flemish people according to last elections -- everyone has to vote here -- ).

---

Any questions?
 
If you want to know everything about belgium:

http://www.belgium.be/en_index.htm

and I think that GrandHighOne already visited this site.. Isn't it?

Question: Did anyone ever heard about Belgium? Before we talked about it? If yes: What did you hear about Belgium?


seNNe

quote:
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Originally posted by AdmiralAK
Interested in languages here:
Does belgium have a "unique" language..i.e. belgian or does it speak dutch + french


There is one other language: Old Gents... Very strange language.. no one understands it ;) :p
 
Originally posted by senne
If you want to know everything about belgium:

http://www.belgium.be/en_index.htm

and I think that GrandHighOne already visited this site.. Isn't it?

It isn't. My source was: 6th-grade (highschool) history book.


There is one other language: Old Gents... Very strange language.. no one understands it ;) :p

I forgot to mention that every region has its own dialect... if people of different areas speak their dialect (a variant of Dutch) instead of Standard Dutch, they don't always understand each other. On TV, (mostly old) people are often subtitled because other regions wouldn't understand what they are saying. This problem is fading away because almost all of people of the newer generations know Standard Dutch.

--

I live in an interesting country to say the least. (Don't get me started on our scandals...)
 
Originally posted by senne
It's just Adobe! And Adobe ROCKS!

Ok, adobe has some cool stuff out there, but check out this before you decide you love a company:

http://www.boycottadobe.net/

And microsoft has done similar stunts in the past, too.


Nothing personal, senne, I just wanted everyone to know what I think of Adobe.
 
Senne wrote: -

Question: Did anyone ever heard about Belgium? Before we talked about it? If yes: What did you hear about Belgium?

Answer:
Yep. I heard of it. Just across the pond if I recall correctly. I've even been to visit. Nice place to cycle 'cos it's pretty flat. Has the added bonus of being really close to England ;-)

You guys have it tough! 3 languages with extra dialects thrown in for good measure! The worst we have to deal with is regional accents, although some of those are so heavy that they may as well be a foreign language.

Well, this is me signing off: Brad, England - wishing he could speak a second language but never finding the time to learn.
 
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