tiger running SO SLOW on G4 powebook
- Thread starter jennie333
- Start date
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
yes, it does seem strange, it's not something i;ve ever encountered before.
whatever has been built using human hands, has human error also built into it. anything can go wrong, really.
whatever has been built using human hands, has human error also built into it. anything can go wrong, really.
Flying Meat
Registered
Assuming the path to the backed up user folder is correct, it is probably permissions for that drive...
just a thought.
just a thought.
can, and does.
I have another question, semi-related. Right now, in order to get work done, I am using my original backup, on a firewire drive, in panther. I had to copy some folders of my recent work (mostly freehand files, linked graphics. also eudora email and linked attachments).
normally my backups preserve the file structure, so that linked images in documents stay linked. But for some reason, even thought the relative position of everything is the same, all of my links are broken, which of course is a big problem. I know how to re-link files, tediously, one by one, in freehand, but not in eudora.
Does anyone know how to tell these folders that they are the same, in the same position? same user account, same everything. I know there is something...prebinding? but that is for apps. or i thought maybe something like the whowhere thing in cocktail? I guess i basically want to "rebuild the desktop" like the old days...
i can't afford to screw this backup up...so i thought i would ask the experts.
jennie
Lt Major Burns
"Dicky" Charlteston-Burns
fixing the permissions afterwards is how you make all the associations work again, not before. before is just a precaution.
from your panther backup, using netinfo manager, find the dodgy user in the Tiger install, and rectify the path to the exact path. it should work.
from your panther backup, using netinfo manager, find the dodgy user in the Tiger install, and rectify the path to the exact path. it should work.
Flying Meat, thank you! it worked perfectly. I used the commands you gave to restore my user folder to the newly installed one (too scared to mess with the paths again).
i copied the contents of my "real" user folder over to the new one, except that i didn't copy very many fonts, and i tried to copy only those permissions i thought i was going to need. Same with Applications (just a few), and application support (the ones that seemed relevant).
repaired permissions, restarted.
So, my report: the internet is oddly very slow, and was having trouble finding my router even though it is there and working.
i haven't been able to open freehand, it keeps asking me for my password, and when i give it, it just asks again. Photoshop said there were bits missing. quicksilver works, but it acted as if it had never run before.
And, I don't have any of my user settings (login items, network settings, etc).
so, do you guys know where all that is?
I really shouldn't just run the migration assistant?
Anyway thanks again, for the unix magic. But i will be working in panther again today.
jennie
i copied the contents of my "real" user folder over to the new one, except that i didn't copy very many fonts, and i tried to copy only those permissions i thought i was going to need. Same with Applications (just a few), and application support (the ones that seemed relevant).
repaired permissions, restarted.
So, my report: the internet is oddly very slow, and was having trouble finding my router even though it is there and working.
i haven't been able to open freehand, it keeps asking me for my password, and when i give it, it just asks again. Photoshop said there were bits missing. quicksilver works, but it acted as if it had never run before.
And, I don't have any of my user settings (login items, network settings, etc).
so, do you guys know where all that is?
I really shouldn't just run the migration assistant?
Anyway thanks again, for the unix magic. But i will be working in panther again today.
jennie
sorry, I posted an update yesterday AM while in the newly installed tiger system and I see that it didn't post!
Flying Meat, your unix magic worked perfectly, thank you! I fixed the path so that it is the normal (newly installed) user folder, I was too scared to try the remote user folder again.
i manually copied over most of the contents of my original (panther) user folder, but omitted most of the fonts. I also copied over some applications and what looked like the relevant application support folders and preferences. then repaired permissions and restarted.
I clearly didn't get all the preferences I need, because my network settings, printer settings, login stuff, etc didn't show up.
And, my applications started up as if for the first time. Freehand kept asking for a password over and over despite my inputting the correct one. Word wasn't set up properly. none of my user settings for custom stuff in photoshop was there. ETC.
Anyone know where that stuff is? I really can't just run the migration manger, huh?
It seemed like application switching, opening and general speed was fine, although it kept dropping the connection with my router, for no reason. But for now, I am still using the panther backup to work. If I can, i will copy over the prefs/settings I need and give tiger another chance...
thanks
jennie
Flying Meat, your unix magic worked perfectly, thank you! I fixed the path so that it is the normal (newly installed) user folder, I was too scared to try the remote user folder again.
i manually copied over most of the contents of my original (panther) user folder, but omitted most of the fonts. I also copied over some applications and what looked like the relevant application support folders and preferences. then repaired permissions and restarted.
I clearly didn't get all the preferences I need, because my network settings, printer settings, login stuff, etc didn't show up.
And, my applications started up as if for the first time. Freehand kept asking for a password over and over despite my inputting the correct one. Word wasn't set up properly. none of my user settings for custom stuff in photoshop was there. ETC.
Anyone know where that stuff is? I really can't just run the migration manger, huh?
It seemed like application switching, opening and general speed was fine, although it kept dropping the connection with my router, for no reason. But for now, I am still using the panther backup to work. If I can, i will copy over the prefs/settings I need and give tiger another chance...
thanks
jennie
Flying Meat
Registered
Sorry for the delay. This is a lot to read, but hopefully it will be informative and useful.
User preferences from your backup, for the various applications, should be stored in your home folder's Library/Preferences/ (/Users/jennie/Library/Preferences).
In the case of Freehand, you might find a Macromedia folder there, and/or com.macromedia.freehand.plist (could be named something slightly different...)
Copy any that seem appropriate, for each app that you use.
Bear in mind that preference corruption may have had a hand in causing slow performance, so move a few prefs, test, log out, log in, test, then move a few more... It's sorta painful, and definately tedious, but it's really the only way to proceed when you can't be sure what was causing the problem in the first place, and have a bunch of application preferences you want to keep.
If in this process you log out, then log back in, and things start getting sluggish, then the culprit is likely a preference you just moved.
There is probably a higher level issue with access privilege settings for applications and /Library/Support items with regard to Freehand (but potentially other third party apps you copied).
Cause: When you copy files in the finder (drag and drop) from an external drive to your internal, you are copying the files with your user accounts privileges. Applications generally expect to be set to owner=root, group=admin.
After the copy operation under your account's privileges, the applications are probably set to owner=jennie, group=admin.
Result: Some apps will request authorization to run, expecting root authorization. Freehand seems to be having this problem.
Solution: This can be resolved pretty quickly by issuing the following command in the terminal:
sudo chown -R root:admin /Applications/*
You can copy and paste that sudo command into the terminal.
Type your user account password (should work fine if your account is an admin account). It should take about a minute, maybe less, maybe more
My applications folder weighs in at just over 5 Gigabytes, and it took about a minute to complete the same operation.
NOTE: Some applications do not seem to care who owns them, probably becuase they don't need to change/access anything at a high enough level to require root privileges.
Let me know if you need additional info and/or clarification.
User preferences from your backup, for the various applications, should be stored in your home folder's Library/Preferences/ (/Users/jennie/Library/Preferences).
In the case of Freehand, you might find a Macromedia folder there, and/or com.macromedia.freehand.plist (could be named something slightly different...)
Copy any that seem appropriate, for each app that you use.
Bear in mind that preference corruption may have had a hand in causing slow performance, so move a few prefs, test, log out, log in, test, then move a few more... It's sorta painful, and definately tedious, but it's really the only way to proceed when you can't be sure what was causing the problem in the first place, and have a bunch of application preferences you want to keep.
If in this process you log out, then log back in, and things start getting sluggish, then the culprit is likely a preference you just moved.
There is probably a higher level issue with access privilege settings for applications and /Library/Support items with regard to Freehand (but potentially other third party apps you copied).
Cause: When you copy files in the finder (drag and drop) from an external drive to your internal, you are copying the files with your user accounts privileges. Applications generally expect to be set to owner=root, group=admin.
After the copy operation under your account's privileges, the applications are probably set to owner=jennie, group=admin.
Result: Some apps will request authorization to run, expecting root authorization. Freehand seems to be having this problem.
Solution: This can be resolved pretty quickly by issuing the following command in the terminal:
sudo chown -R root:admin /Applications/*
You can copy and paste that sudo command into the terminal.
Type your user account password (should work fine if your account is an admin account). It should take about a minute, maybe less, maybe more
My applications folder weighs in at just over 5 Gigabytes, and it took about a minute to complete the same operation.
NOTE: Some applications do not seem to care who owns them, probably becuase they don't need to change/access anything at a high enough level to require root privileges.
Let me know if you need additional info and/or clarification.
Thanks, i am gradually trying to get all the right stuff copied over, while working 12 hr+ days. I really appreciate it, and the more info the better as far as i am concerned. I am still running off my pather firewire drive backup for working, which is a little scary.
Flying Meat (or anyone), got any of that good unix magic for the problem below? i posted it a while ago, but it is still driving me crazy. i suspect it is probably a similar problem, since i did drag to copy the folder that contains these files that are having trouble.
thanks again, jennie
Flying Meat (or anyone), got any of that good unix magic for the problem below? i posted it a while ago, but it is still driving me crazy. i suspect it is probably a similar problem, since i did drag to copy the folder that contains these files that are having trouble.
thanks again, jennie
Flying Meat
Registered
I'm afraid I won't be much help with the specific ins and outs of working with specific freehand functionality, as I left the publishing realm some 7-8 years ago.
Even then I was mainly page layout/production in Quark, with rather minor graphics skills (and even less freehand skills...)
You might be able to get that one answered in publishing related forums though.
Theoretically, all applications should use relative links for documents that contain/reference other documents.
Sometimes, having located one linked file, there is an option somewhere to update all linked files from the active document.
This of course doesn't work for other active documents without going through the same process.
Quark was a joy in this regard. Having found one document, it would check that location for other missing "links", then ask you politely if you would like to link all the other found files.
My wife just told me Freehand and InDesign both don't do this. She said InDesign makes you manually link even duplicate instances of the same linked file.
I hope she's wrong.
Even then I was mainly page layout/production in Quark, with rather minor graphics skills (and even less freehand skills...)
You might be able to get that one answered in publishing related forums though.
Theoretically, all applications should use relative links for documents that contain/reference other documents.
Sometimes, having located one linked file, there is an option somewhere to update all linked files from the active document.
This of course doesn't work for other active documents without going through the same process.
Quark was a joy in this regard. Having found one document, it would check that location for other missing "links", then ask you politely if you would like to link all the other found files.
My wife just told me Freehand and InDesign both don't do this. She said InDesign makes you manually link even duplicate instances of the same linked file.
I hope she's wrong.
Thanks. Actually the newer versions do have an option to check the current folder for other links and that works, but I have a bunch of files like that.
I am actually a freehand pro. And it isn't just freehand, it is other applications like eudora as well.
What i was hoping is that, since the folders and files are in the exact same relation to one another, there was a way, like rebuilding permissions, to make the folders metadata or whatever look the way it is supposed to.
For example with the application folder sudo command, that was a case of the files having some wrong data due to the drag and drop copy. i was hoping maybe there was something else i could do to reassign or rebuild the locations.
basically i think the folders still think (or the programs think) that the folders are from another hardrive (the one i copied from) and i would like to reassign them so they look to the apps like they are from the current drive they are on (i am making this up).
like, rebuilding the desktop used to?
jennie
I am actually a freehand pro. And it isn't just freehand, it is other applications like eudora as well.
What i was hoping is that, since the folders and files are in the exact same relation to one another, there was a way, like rebuilding permissions, to make the folders metadata or whatever look the way it is supposed to.
For example with the application folder sudo command, that was a case of the files having some wrong data due to the drag and drop copy. i was hoping maybe there was something else i could do to reassign or rebuild the locations.
basically i think the folders still think (or the programs think) that the folders are from another hardrive (the one i copied from) and i would like to reassign them so they look to the apps like they are from the current drive they are on (i am making this up).
like, rebuilding the desktop used to?
jennie
Flying Meat
Registered
Oh yeah! Eudora!
Um, there is a preference that has to be filled in with the "Attachments folder" name. Find that preference, and then navigate to teh location of that attachments folder and Bob's yer uncle. (perhaps )
Um, there is a preference that has to be filled in with the "Attachments folder" name. Find that preference, and then navigate to teh location of that attachments folder and Bob's yer uncle. (perhaps
)yeah, unfortunately i already tried that. It isn't going to work from within the applications...i think, kind of like permissions, maybe there is some way of making the folders and files "realize" that they belong to the current harddrive. Like when we used to rebuild the desktop?
Flying Meat
Registered
Do you recall how you did your transfers to Tiger (most recently that is)?
Were you logged in under the Panther drive, or Tiger?
Were you logged in under the Panther drive, or Tiger?
When i initially manually copied these folders over to update them, it was from Tiger, while i was logged into Tiger, onto the panther backup. I copied it over as a backup, but Tiger got so slow i had to go back to panther...and when i did, the folders seemed to have lost their sense of self.
they are named the same thing, in the exact same relationship to each other.
And they were actually created in panther. but then i did the update to tiger, worked in tiger for a while, and in order to get myself back to being able to work in panther i had to copy them over.
jennie
they are named the same thing, in the exact same relationship to each other.
And they were actually created in panther. but then i did the update to tiger, worked in tiger for a while, and in order to get myself back to being able to work in panther i had to copy them over.
jennie
Flying Meat
Registered
Again, sorry for the delay.
So, a bit more info that might help resolve dis 'ting.
If you copy files while logged in under Tiger, the files generally will inherit the owner, group, and permission defaults of that Tiger account.
If you copy files while logged in under Panther, the files generally will inherit the owner, group, and permission defaults of that Panther account.
The two OSs don't really know, nor care, that Panther's jennie and Tiger's jennie are the same user.
To be sure your Tiger user account folder's contents have the correct user and group associated with them, while logged under the Tiger account, run this command in Terminal.app:
sudo chown -R jennie:admin /Users/jennie
Then enter your password.
You can copy the command and paste it into terminal if it's correct.
The command presumes your Tiger user account is "jennie" and your home folder has the same name, in the default location for user accounts (/Users/).
You can use this same command to rectify any owner and group issues for the backup folder while logged in under Panther. The path to the backup will of course need to be edited, but GOOD NEWS!
You can drag folders to the terminal to enter their paths automagically!
So, type:
sudo chown -R jennie:admin
enter a space after the word admin, then drag the backup folder to the terminal window.
Hit return to accept the command (provided it appears correct ) and enter your password when prompted.
extreme minutia:
If the Panther and Tiger user accounts have the exact same uuid (it's a numerical ID of the form 501, or 502, or etc...) then it might just work without running the "chown" (change owner) command.
Might.
Better safe than sorry though.
In the same vein as better safe than sorry, chown-ing recursively (-R) should not be taken lightly.
The command, if entered with the wrong path (or more appropriately, a correct, but unintended path) could lock you out of your machine and/or be a huge headache to rectify. Yes. Perhaps even more of a headache than you have now.
So, a bit more info that might help resolve dis 'ting.
If you copy files while logged in under Tiger, the files generally will inherit the owner, group, and permission defaults of that Tiger account.
If you copy files while logged in under Panther, the files generally will inherit the owner, group, and permission defaults of that Panther account.
The two OSs don't really know, nor care, that Panther's jennie and Tiger's jennie are the same user.
To be sure your Tiger user account folder's contents have the correct user and group associated with them, while logged under the Tiger account, run this command in Terminal.app:
sudo chown -R jennie:admin /Users/jennie
Then enter your password.
You can copy the command and paste it into terminal if it's correct.
The command presumes your Tiger user account is "jennie" and your home folder has the same name, in the default location for user accounts (/Users/).
You can use this same command to rectify any owner and group issues for the backup folder while logged in under Panther. The path to the backup will of course need to be edited, but GOOD NEWS!
You can drag folders to the terminal to enter their paths automagically!
So, type:
sudo chown -R jennie:admin
enter a space after the word admin, then drag the backup folder to the terminal window.
Hit return to accept the command (provided it appears correct
) and enter your password when prompted.extreme minutia:
If the Panther and Tiger user accounts have the exact same uuid (it's a numerical ID of the form 501, or 502, or etc...) then it might just work without running the "chown" (change owner) command.
Might.
Better safe than sorry though.
In the same vein as better safe than sorry, chown-ing recursively (-R) should not be taken lightly.
The command, if entered with the wrong path (or more appropriately, a correct, but unintended path) could lock you out of your machine and/or be a huge headache to rectify. Yes. Perhaps even more of a headache than you have now.
I am going to try this tonight--this is EXACTLY what i was thinking. i hope it works!
I am only (right now) concerned about doing this for the folder on the backup, which is panther.
So, logged into panther, running with the panther backup as my startup disk:
So I drag the folder, on the firewire backup, that i had previously copied. for example the eudora folder which is in users/documents, on the volume G4 clone (firewire drive)
is that correct?
thank you so much
jennie
I am only (right now) concerned about doing this for the folder on the backup, which is panther.
So, logged into panther, running with the panther backup as my startup disk:
So I drag the folder, on the firewire backup, that i had previously copied. for example the eudora folder which is in users/documents, on the volume G4 clone (firewire drive)
is that correct?
thank you so much
jennie
Flying Meat
Registered
Should work fine.
Is the volume "G4 clone" also known as your Panther boot volume?
Is the volume "G4 clone" also known as your Panther boot volume?