To be respected, DVD zoning must respect its users

A

aicul

Registered
Just wanted to express my grief, like others on this issue. But not on the zoning issue, but its implementation.

Here are some curious effects of DVD zoning.

If you insert a "multi-zone" DVD in a new Mac, iDVD will not read it until you set a zone. This wastefully uses up 1 of the 5 allowed zone changes.

If you reach zone change 5 and try to read a different zone DVD, our DVD suddenly decided that it would go on partial strike.

Let me explain, that. It refuses the different zone - I can accept that. Afterwards, when I put a DVD of the correct zone the DVD half-works. It works for 6 minute intervals only - then freezes. I see no reason why inserting a DVD of the wrong zone in the player should compromise playback of DVD of the last zone setting.

Now if I clear the PRAM, reset most of the OSX settings, caches, prefs and pray,... the DVD will return to normal life. Hence attempting to enter a 6th zone change messes up the DVD player.

Honestly, I believe the DVD zoning could be implemented better.
 
lurk said:
Where by better you mean not at all, right? :)
Click to expand...

No!No! No! I'm not getting into that discussion.

My point is...

Why should iDVD count the playback of a zone free DVD as 1-change on a new Mac? Reading a zone free DVD does not count a 1 zone change.

Why should the DVD player go nuts if you insert a DVD of a new zone and the 5 changes are used up. All it has to say is "Sorry, No Go". Attempting to change zones beyond change 5 should not mess up the DVD player.

Now these two examples are Start and End scenarios. I don't really think Apple considered them when implementeing zoning on the DVD players.

As per the zone limitation, lets be honest a quick search on google will yield the required firmware crack the DVD player to RPC1. But I don't have that, thats why I reached zone 5. If this annoys me, what really gets me :mad: is that for a week my DVD player was miss-behaving for some mess-up iDVD made when it told me that a sixth zone change was not possible.
 
Well I would argue for not at all. But I am bitter for having to have duplicate AV hardware just because of this silly system. One of the problems of marrying outside of my continent I guess :)
 
The entire letting you change zones 5 times is a nice thing put in place for people who up and physically move their computers to different zones. It is _not_ so you can watch zone's that you're not entitled to. Next time pick a legal issue to complain about, not complaining about how Apple is simply enforcing copyright laws they are bound to comply to.

Brian
 
btoneill said:
Next time pick a legal issue to complain about, not complaining about how Apple is simply enforcing copyright laws they are bound to comply to.
Click to expand...

Heres a legal issue.

Facts:
a) Loading a zone free DVD on a brand new Mac will generate a zone change.

b) Thereafter, loading a zone free DVD does not generate a zone change.

My legal point is that if behaviour (b) is correct, then (a) is incorrect. Or the opposite. But both cannot be correct at the same time.

I stand for (b) as being correct as a zone free DVD does not need a zone setting. Hence, I lost 1 zone change when iDVD forced a zone change when I inserted a zone free DVD.

Whatever the copyright laws may be, if the editor of the zone free DVD decided they did not want zoning on their DVD, so Apple should respect this - even on a brand new Mac.

Do you still believe I'm complaining about copyright laws?
 
Would installing VLC just get rid of the issue once and for all? That's how I get to watch my different zone DVDs on my Mac.
 
aicul said:
Heres a legal issue.

Facts:
a) Loading a zone free DVD on a brand new Mac will generate a zone change.

b) Thereafter, loading a zone free DVD does not generate a zone change.

My legal point is that if behaviour (b) is correct, then (a) is incorrect. Or the opposite. But both cannot be correct at the same time.
Click to expand...

The first time you use a new Mac's DVD drive, you must specify a zone -- regardless of the kind of DVD you insert (region-free, protected, whatever). Besides, most "region-free" DVDs are not truly "region-free." They just have all regions enabled for them, so you have to set a zone on the DVD drive so that the DVD drive/software can check to make sure the zone you set is one of the zones set on the DVD disk (which it will be for a "region-free" DVD, but still -- your DVD drive must be set to one of those 7 or 8 zones to be able to view a DVD that is enabled for use in all zones, ie. "region-free").

Besides, as said before, changing zones on a DVD player is meant for people who up and move their computer to a different continent/region. It's not meant so that you can watch different region DVDs for a limited time until you run out of region changes.
 
It's at most questionable whether Apple is required to respect zone encoding in the US. In most countries they're not required to. In some countries it is in fact illegal to sell DVD players that do respect region coding (New Zealand for sure, possibly others). And, various cases in various countries are challenging the entire practice as being an illegal market manipulation under WTO rules.

Anyway, it's simply impossible for region coding to respect its users - the very idea is disrespectful of honest paying customers. There's no way it's about piracy - pirates will always be able to make bit for bit identical copies of DVDs, region encoding and all; and that's what they mostly do. It's all about restricting the fair use of DVDs by consumers.
 
I agree zoneing is questionable, but understand that film industry wants get to paid for its work. I have no qualms about that. I understand that this implies that some of my freedom is hindered by this, but I can accept this in exchange of "entertainment".

I just think that the two examples I indicated above show that the practical implementation of the ground rules governing DVD zoning can DEFINITELY be improved. After all when one faces such pointless problems, what prevents him from 1, getting truly annoyed and 2, converting their DVD to RPC1?

I fully abide to scruffy's comment on pirates.

I remember a time when VHS would be issued over a year after movie premier. This meant the movie had ample time to premier throughout the world. Today, DVDs follow the movie premier date by a few months. So a movie DVD can be available in countries where the movie has not premiered yet. Maybe the majors should rethink their marketing concept, how about world-wide premier of movies, followed by world-wide distribution of DVD. No need for zoning....
 
I don't think its about protecting the premiers.

That's what the film industry says, but as you say, if they wanted to do that, they could just premier the movies simultaneously, or just hold off on selling the DVDs like they used to with VHS.

My theory is it's about segmented pricing. Movies in the UK cost up to double what they do in the US, for example. If they didn't have region coding, movie resellers could just order from US distributorships, and end the whole racket.

That's precisely the issue on which it's being challenged as a violation of WTO agreements - it's preventing the trade of goods from one region into another, so as to prop up artificially high prices of those same goods in some regions.
 
btoneill said:
Next time pick a legal issue to complain about, not complaining about how Apple is simply enforcing copyright laws they are bound to comply to.
Brian
Click to expand...

The region code is not a law, but the movie industry´s way to control the market. You don´t break any law by bypassing the region code. The only thing you mess up with e.g. firmware hacks is at best your warranty.
just to clear that one up.
 
Depends on where you live. If you are in the US then the DMCA will get you, not for breaking the region code but for circumventing the protections in order ot break it. The EU was also dangerously close to enacting a similar directive but I have to admit I don't remember if it went through.
 
http://www.epinions.com/elec-review-665C-105932C-39077F49-prod6

Why Did They Make Regions?

When studios initially release a movie in theaters, the first country to see it is usually America. Six months later, (more or less) theaters in Japan and Europe show their first screening, six months after that Asia, and so on following in the order of region codes. Meanwhile, 6-18 months after a studio releases a movie in America, the American DVD (region #1) is released for home viewing. What often ends of occurring, is that Americans and Canadians have the opportunity to own their own personal copy of a movie before someone in China can see it in a movie theater.

This in itself is not a big problem, where the problem lies is in the potential for cashing in on the time difference. With the explosion of the internet, people in America (if the codes were not implemented) could have bought American DVDs and sold them to people in China who in turn would not go to the theater to see the movie. This time lag, without region codes, would have meant tremendous box office losses (or lack of gains) in other countries.

Region codes also allow studios to sell their DVDs to match different market demands. In some countries, where per capita income is lower and consequently people have less disposable income, DVDs are priced less. Conversely, in America where people have more disposable income and where the demand for DVDs is greater the prices are higher.

Law Breaking

According to OpenDVD.org, DVD players with region codes are illegal in New Zealand. Additionally, DVD regions are rumored to violate certain World Trade Organization laws.
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In the US, courts are hearing cases involving changing the region codes, or eliminating them. California Courts have issued victory for a publisher of a Region removal code, but it's expected the CA Supreme Court will over turn this decision.
 
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