UI inconsistency: Cocoa text handling

strobe

Puny Member
I'm sure everybody is aware Cocoa text handling behavior is vastly different than Classic or Carbon. Fortunately Cocoa has a level of abstraction whereby it can be fixed. Two less-than-obvious examples are:

Text selection is different in Cocoa. Selecting to the end of a line includes the carriage return when it shouldn't. Not only does the user not want the CR in the typical circumstance, it's easy to add one after pasting. It's also very difficult to avoid selecting the CR especially if the sentence ends in a small character.

The cursor doesn't represent where the next character will go when there is a whitespace near the edge of a page. I have no idea what's behind this stupidity. I cna't tell if I have two or one space if it's near the edge of a page. It's one of those 'just plan stupid' things.

Apple should take this opportunity to revise it's UI guidelines, especially the behavior of text editing and list selection. Modifier keys etc. This would be a golden opportune time to do it.
 

The DJ

Registered
Originally posted by strobe
Apple should take this opportunity to revise it's UI guidelines, especially the behavior of text editing and list selection. Modifier keys etc. This would be a golden opportune time to do it.
They will.
They simply haven't had the time yet.
Other strange things:
No name editing in list mode of finder.
Long names sometimes overlap other UI components (Try copying a file with a long name. It will override the progressbar)
Updating of finder information is really lousy.
 

strobe

Puny Member
Originally posted by The DJ

They will.

Apple hasn't updated the UI guidelines since the system 7 days. I wish I knew why YOU were so confident.

As for the Finder (err Desktop) I have no interest in bringing obvious problems to Apple's attention, it's the less obvious ones I'm worried about, and less obvious solutions like ones for the menu bar chaos. Anyway you can always run something other than the 'Desktop' app. Unlike MacOS where the Finder did weird shit like registering the Apple menu items, in OS X it's more easily replaced.
 

strobe

Puny Member
That document was released before OS X was and only deals with UI metrics. It has jack squat to do with behavior or design.
 

endian

Dis Member
Apple's doing a complete update of the HIG and will be releasing things as they get done. Right now, metrics are more important than anything else.. I'm sick of seeing carbon apps with 'ance' buttons.
 

strobe

Puny Member
Is this something Apple has told ADC members, or said publicly? I've been keeping my eyes peeled for any indication Apple has any plans in this area.
 

strobe

Puny Member
Any word if this has been fixed in the new build?
 

strobe

Puny Member
I looked and I have comments.

Good:

1) I like their clarification of the list (array) selection behavior with shift and command keys. However they don't mention command-dragging only command-clicking.

2) I also like their clarification of cursor movement and selection with modifier keys.

Bad:

3) They only implicitly say that white spaces at the end of the line ought to move the cursor. This ought to be explicit.

4) WHAT text is selected when a drag selection is made is missing! This is the primary problem in Cocoa text behavior. As I said before the implicit mac behavior (which I consider far superior to the Cocoa behavior) is not to include the carriage return when selecting to the end of one line. Is Apple trying to side-step the issue until they fix Cocoa or what?

If you know a way to contact Apple on this issue please let me know.
 

endian

Dis Member
Subscribe to the Mac-HI developers list at apple & post your concerns there. They will be read by Apple engineers.

Also, machi@apple.com still worked last I checked

[Edited by endian on 01-18-2001 at 10:31 AM]
 

strobe

Puny Member
As of 4k46 it still hasn't been fixed.

PANIC MODE ON!
 

strobe

Puny Member
This problem is still present in a later 10.0.1 beta build
 
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