VirtualPC and G5...Not until VPC 7

btoneill

btoneill

keeper of the cheese
Haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but CNet is reporting (http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-5068747.html) that VirtualPC will not work on the G5 until the next full release of VPC sometime in the next year. The article says a complete rewrite is needed because some functionality is missing from the G5 that was there in the G4.


Brian
 
This would be very, VERY bad news for using Macs at my company... I've been able to convince my boss to look at them under the assumption that apps would work fairly well in a G5/VPC config. And the window for the decision of which platform to go with will be in the next couple of months...
 
So what are the chances that this would have been true (VPC not able to run on G5 until next year sometime) if Microsoft didn't own the product?

The article says that they realized this when they got their first test system. Wouldn't it have been, oh, basic customer service for them to put out a press release? A Knowledgebase article? Update their product materials and product boxes to alert customers to the problem (especially if they've known for months???

We know they've already killed the product for Linux as part of their strategy... Can anyone say class-action anti-trust lawsuit?
 
And with RealPC turning out to be nothing but smoke and mirrors, MS's control of the commercial Windows emulation market is looking very bad indeed.

They should speed up the development of VPC 7 to get it out the door quickly and efficiently so customers like your company can buy it.
 
No kidding. Then again, the main reason we need it is to help smooth the transition from a Windows platform (granted, we'd be buying copies of Windows for each machine...).

I sent this email to sales@vmware.com:

With the recent announcement of Microsoft's VPC for Macintosh not working with G5, and no plans to support until at least "well into 2004", is VMWare working on a Macintosh version of its Intel emulation software?

It's fairly obvious that Microsoft has very little to gain by supporting this software heavily, and it is likely that this software will eventually evaporate. With the release of the G5 the Macintosh is again a growing platform, and this market should steadily become more available to competitors (and with the announcement that RealPC will have NO OS X version of its emulation software, there are currently no competitors to Microsoft in this space).

My group within (my company) will need at least 15 copies, I'm just wondering if we'll see a solution from VMWare anytime in the forseeable future.
Click to expand...

If they haven't already been working on it, porting vmware to Mac would be no small task. However, they're head and shoulders farther along on a stable, mature product than anyone else. It would be very interesting if they suddenly got inundated with requests for a Mac product.
 
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...confirmsvirtualpcnotg5compatible&sid=95573662

From Yahoo News

Virtual PC relies on a feature in the G3 and G4 processors that is no longer present in the G5 chip. Sommer said that Microsoft is rewriting large portions of the Virtual PC code to make it compatible with the new processor.


"The reason for this is that Virtual PC for Mac Version 6.1 relies on a feature of the PowerPC G3 and G4 processors called 'pseudo little-endian mode' for increased performance when emulating a Pentium processor," said Sommer. "Current versions of Virtual PC require this feature in order to function."


While Sommer said compatibility with the G5 will make it into the next release of Virtual PC, no timeframe was given for the update.
Click to expand...
 
I've heard reports that 6.0 will run on the G5, where 6.1 will not. Obviously this would be a major problem, since it would render MS' excuse pretty much invalid (there couldn't possibly have been that many architectural changes between 6.0 and 6.1 that will take "well into 2004" to reverse). However, I have a tough time believing MS would be that stupid (they're known for their aggressive, predatory tactics and low-quality software, but not for being stupid).

Everything I've read appears to be second- and third-hand information, however. Does anyone know of any first-hand experience with this? Someone with a G5 and 6.0 that's tried this and can directly confirm or deny the truth to this rumor?
 
ok....I know nothing about the different emulation stuff out there.

But I read somewhere the other day about BOCHS. Has anyone used this? Does it suck?

BTONEILL--you're a *nix dude...have you tried it?

Later,
Eddie
 
For lack of an alternative, it's good. Compared with VPC 6 or even VMWare on PC or Linux, it bites the big one.
 
i dont see a legitimate reason for MS trying to disable VPC for the G5... the more copies of VPC they sell, the more copies (theoretically) of windows they sell... it all makes them money
 
Microsoft's own site confirms this:

http://www.microsoft.com/mac/howtobuy.aspx?pid=sysreq#vpc

The page includes the notation:

(Please note that Virtual PC for Mac Versions 6.1 and lower do not run on the G5 Macintosh)

As I understand it, the "little endian" mode supports a different byte-order for memory addressing (that is, the Intel-compatible mode). The PowerPC processor normally uses a different byte-order for memory addressing.

You can see how using software to reformat every memory address might take a bite out of performance. :(
 
Originally posted by Jason
i dont see a legitimate reason for MS trying to disable VPC for the G5... the more copies of VPC they sell, the more copies (theoretically) of windows they sell... it all makes them money
Click to expand...

Yes, selling VPC provides them money both from revenue direct from the product, and potentially from Windows licenses they sell (possibly bundled with the product), MS Office sales, etc.

However, MS isn't that short-sighted. What is the main reason most people run Windows on VPC? Migrating from Windows to Mac? Ability to run Win-only programs?

This makes it easier to run alternative operating systems. In most cases, this need is simply due to a lack of app support on the alternative platform (Mac, Linux). Since this tool make transition to the alt. easier and more possible, it also promotes use of that alternative platform. If the platform ever reaches a critical mass where app developers decide that it's financially viable to create the missing apps for the alternate platform, then the alternate user's need for both VPC and Windows disappears.

Financially it makes sense for the Mac BU. It even provides short-term cash flow for the Windows group. Overall, it is a BAD thing for the Windows group, and guess who would win an internal MS battle over this topic?
 
I read the "little endian" comment on macnews.com as Microsoft's answer to why VPC 6.0 doesn't work on the G5. I also read there that there is no due date for the recoding which Microsoft says will be somewhat extensive a task.

If we are starting a discussion about MS products that suck, let's start with using Word for anything more complicated than writing a letter to grandma; though it can't even do THAT well! I wish MS would just scrap Word and come up with something with fewer WINDOWS. :)
 
Originally posted by btoneill
Haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but CNet is reporting (http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-5068747.html) that VirtualPC will not work on the G5 until the next full release of VPC sometime in the next year. The article says a complete rewrite is needed because some functionality is missing from the G5 that was there in the G4.


Brian
Click to expand...

I'm reading between the lines of this news article, and I get this message from MS to Apple: "We supported you guys by giving you money and giving you MS Office X. You pay us back by upstaging us with Safari, and for some reason you stupid MacOSX isn't selling MS Office X as much as we thought, though we charged $500 a pop for it. So, since you screwed us, w'ere gonna screw you. We don't know when you're gonna get a new MS Office, and VPC ain't gonna work on your fastest computers, see?"

Apple needs to fill in the gaps that have heretofore been covered by VPC by writing or acquiring companies that write the needed software in native MacOS.
 
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