what's going on?

edX

mac shaman
1st i got an email from giaguara telling me the site was down and wondering what was going on. this was apparently during the time i took a nap. then i post and leave for an hour and a half and nobody else has posted since. there have been tons of people at the site though.

now i get an email from webmaster telling me to check an announcement but there isn't one.

i'm confused as always. :p

oh, and scottw, it looks like we have a final draft of the coming reorganization in the thread by the same name if you haven't noticed it already.
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
Ed, you'd have to logout to see the announcement. :) As Admin, you just bypass any "downtime" messages.

This has been coming for a few months. I have been strongly debating what to do with this site. Move it to a different domain, sell it, something needed to be done.

In a last ditched effort to save the community from any major decisions, I decided to do a list ditched effort to raise funds by asking for donations. If things show positive and people want to support the site, then I will put my 100% support behind it as well. If they don't want to support it, then they won't have my 100% support.

This is marked toward the community at large, not admins or mods.

Please get me the reorg stuff, and we can re-open the site with a new structure and a new version of VB here in a few days.

Scott
 

edX

mac shaman
ok, i finally saw it by visiting with netscape which i never use to come here.

here is the reorganization with forums and descriptions. i'll have a tentative list of which mods for which forums in a bit. i can't really finalize that without their input. but that would be easily changed once all else is in place anyway.

----------------------------------

Welcome

Site Announcements

News pertaining to this site. Only moderators may start new threads here.

Site Dicussion
Discussions related to this site. The place for questions about policy, appearance, navigation, etc. Suggestions welcomed.

Mac Community

Apple News & Rumors
For discussing news worthy information and serious rumors about the Mac platform.

Apple General Discussion
For just talking about Apple stuff. A place to share the Kool-Aid

Mac OS X: Howto & FAQs
A selection of solutions to common issues. If you feel you have a good answer to a common problem or frequently asked question, please submit it here. Do not submit new questions here.

Mac OS X System & Misc. Software
All questions and problems related to running OS X should be posted here as well as those for miscellaneous software not more specifically covered in other forums. Please read other forum descriptions before posting here.

Mac OS X Unix & X11
UNIX command line & X11 focus area for OS X 'nix users. Stuff too geeky for the other OS X forums.

Mac OS X Games
For questions and discussions about OS X games - from The Sims to Solitaire.

Mac OS X Software Programming
For discussion of programming application software on a Mac for OS X . Cocoa, Carbon & Porting using C, Objective C, C++, Java and others.

Mac OS X Networking & Compatibility
Need help with networking your mac? Want it to talk to your PC? Switchers, adders and all others welcome.

Mac OS X DTP, Graphics and Multimedia
For our artists. A place to get help with desktop publishing tools, graphics or multimedia manipulation. From Appleworks to iPhoto, iMovie to Keynote, Illustrator to Maya and InDesign.

Mac Hardware & Perhipherals
If it is part of your Mac, or hooks to your Mac, post your question and help others here. Get it in sync.

Mac Classic System & Software
For discussing any issues related to running OS 9 & earlier Apple systems, and 3rd party software running on them.

Internet Community

The Net : Applications & Connections
Need help reaching the web or just looking for the best browser? Discuss Safari, iChat, Mail, FTP and Usenet. Or perhaps you've found some site worth sharing. The place for surfers to hang out.

The Net : Web Development
Get help for website construction, server administration, or just the easiest way to display your pics on the web. For both pro and homepage developers. The place to deal with configuring web based apps.

The Net: Coding
For discussing web based & platform independent scripting, programming and database development. The place for help creating web based apps. Includes CSS, JavaScript, PHP, SQL, Flash ActionScript, etc.

Other Stuff

Opinions, Reviews & Open Letters
Our little friends tell us that folks from Apple visit us on a daily basis. Here is a great place to give or seek feedback about all things mac related in hopes someone important might read it.

The Cafe
Welcome! Pull up a seat, discuss whatever else is on your mind. Wireless internet available. Now serving off-topic and other unusual discussions. Open 24/7

The Conference Room
Disscussions about the business side of computing. Looking to start your own business or just need help with your tech resume? A place to talk about how to be successful with the skills you've acquired. Business networking & work related concerns.

Computer Classifieds
Have a computer related product you want to sell or looking for something in particular? Please no commercial postings.

???
What, with all our forums you've got something that doesn't seem to fit in any of them? Post it here. Either our mods will figure out where it belongs or maybe we'll start a forum for it if there's enough interest
 

edX

mac shaman
Welcome

Site Announcements

edx,themacko
Site Dicussion
edx,themacko
Mac Community

Apple News & Rumors
evildan, fryke, Jason
Apple General Discussion
Giaguara, bobw
Mac OS X: Howto & FAQs
Giaguara, ksv
Mac OS X System & Misc. Software
bobw, dktrickey, evildan
Mac OS X Unix & X11
btoneill, Captain Code
Mac OS X Games
ksv, mdnky
Mac OS X Software Programming
Captain Code, Trip
Mac OS X Networking & Compatibility
bobw, Jason
Mac OS X DTP, Graphics and Multimedia
ksv, mdnky
Mac Hardware & Perhipherals
bobw, Cheryl
Mac Classic System & Software
Cheryl, JohnnyV

Internet Community

The Net : Applications & Connections
Giaguara, Ricky
The Net : Web Development
evildan, Trip
The Net: Coding
Captain Code, btoneill

Other Stuff

Opinions, Reviews & Open Letters
evildan, fryke
The Cafe
mdnky, Ricky
The Conference Room
Giaguara, Jason
Computer Classifieds
JohnnyV
???
Ricky, Trip
 

themacko

Barking at the moon.
Yeah I got a couple emails asking me questions and I didn't realize the site was down either ... I'm a dork! ;)
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
Guys...

Update... donation contributions have been steady and overall, only a few harsh words on shutting down the site, but that was expected. :)

This has really given me the boost I need, not only to help cover costs, but to spend more time investing in this website. This is in stark contrast to my opinion just 24 hours ago.

What do you think of setting up a "vbportal" page on the main page of our site, instead of just the forums? Or do you like having the forums on the main page?

What COOL stuff can we add to the site "overnight" to really spice up the place and make it seem like "worth the effort" when we come back online.

I do want to get all the revisions to forums complete... and I will comment on what is being proposed later tonight.

Scott
 

edX

mac shaman
well, one idea that has been passing thru my head might not be too practical, but ..
ever considered having our own downloads site? we could require that people be registered to post or to download there. seems like vt and macupdate both do very well in advertising so this could be a long term gain. wouldn't it be cool if we could link new releases in the site instead of pointing to vt? even if we required people to provide their own hosts, it would be a start.
i'm not real fond of portal pages but they're easy enough to bypass so i really don't care.
if trip or anybody had ever designed a banner we could set up a reciprocol link program where people could link their sites to us and we provide links to theirs. people like this kind of thing i think.

some suggestions from the chat room - open the tech help forums back up sooner. or at least open access for those who have paid if possible. along that those lines, it would help to let our mods in to discuss this as well so they are informed by the time it resurfaces. i think they are the ones who feel the most confused right now. also the idea of letting people enter from the announcement on a read only basis was suggested.
that's about it for now. i'll post more if i think of it.
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
I get no more joy out of life than swinging by and reading MacFora whenever I do something "bad" and "10%". :) If only they could see the smile on my face that I have succeeded.

Well... before opening anything back up, I'd really like to make make our major changes. I had thought about opening it up for those who have paid, but would like to think more about that.

This was a last minute decision by myself... I have written Ed three letters, all unsent on various things that I handn't really confirmed my own opinion.

Trust me, the decision to go this route was the most conformtable and easy decision I did and is by far better than my other decisions. So, it is the lessor of all evils.

If life was only as cut and dry as those who speak out against me see life, such a life I am glad I don't have.
 

edX

mac shaman
If life was only as cut and dry as those who speak out against me see life, such a life I am glad I don't have.
where's that nodding smilie when you need it? :)
well, my mailbox is open and i'll read anything you want to go ahead and send out. i've always got an opinion whther it's right or not. :D

you should be getting an email from someone who has an xserve to offer some server space. he is robotdeathsquad at macfora, i forget who he is here. but he pm'd me there and wanted to contact you about this. so i gave him yours and the help addy.

what cracks me up the most about macfora is that the ones doing all the bashing are the ones who don't come here anymore anyway.:rolleyes:
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
Yea... I guess I don't hold grudges against anyone. Life is too short to do that. Heck, I'd have them all over for dinner, but they'd probably complain I invited them or I live too far away.

Scott
 

edX

mac shaman
you do live too far away - in the middle of nowhere to be exact :p

thanks for the email to all the mods and us. i think that was a very good thing to do.

i'm still thinking of 'new things' :D
 

edX

mac shaman
ok, this idea keeps coming up and getting shuffled but i'm throwing it out again. the idea of selling macosx. items. it would help with money and promote the site. and i think some members would appreciate it.

there are those sites that will set up a store at no cost - good way to start as an experiment. in absence of a real logo, the new chat icon would be a good thing to put on coffee cups and some other stuff if the creater would agree. it was twister i think. a quick check to the design contest thread would confirm who it is. it's a bit commercial, but in a way that lets people express their ties to the site.

then we can start a contest to design a new logo - the winner would get a free t-shirt with their design.
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
Ed, I had a problem with the LOGO that won. At least the one that was head in the polls. The reason for this is because of not only the use of part of the Apple LOGO, but also the "X" in OS X logo. Being legally responsible, I'd rather not be. :)

This one I really liked:

http://www.macosx.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=247

All the forums are now updated. I moved the "Hardware" forum up higher in the list, but other than that no additional changes.

I moved site discussion stuff to the bottom to put a high priority on our Mac Discussion forums. A new area for Contributing Members, this will be for those who either donate or volunteer on the site or give in some other fashion. This will be an area where we can maybe discuss a few more "directional" issues with people from a select group of support members and not just the general public.
 

edX

mac shaman
well, while i liked site forums at the top, i can see your reasoning for the change and accept that. you left out the "???" forum. i was serious about that one. :) looks great though. we may need to recruit a new mod or two to be able to cover the private ones. (move an experienced mod and let the new one take something that requires less decision making). we'll see once i can talk to them about it. i'd rather stay as is, but i also don't want anybody overworked.

i don't see a problem with the winning chat logo for the client. apple isn't going to do anything more than cease and desist, if that. but if you're talking about as a printable logo, i see the point and i'd bet that phatcactus would be thrilled to see his work featured as such. i agree that he did a nice job. in fact i also think it's the best one when large, it just doesn't scale to the dock well. so as a large logo, it would be great. i know he put a lot of work into it. you should email him and get his permission or tell me and i will.

so when are you updating vb and going totally offline for a few hours? or did you do that already?

oh, and bobw, on his own, also suggested a download/link page. maybe it's a good idea. especially if the guy with the x serve would be able/willing to host some of the software.
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
What software other than the chat client where you thinking of hosting?
 

edX

mac shaman
well, we could start by offerring it to any of our developers who have apps already made. there are quite a few of them, more than you'd realize. i've talked with several developers of software i use who lurk here. i'm guessing if we had something like this that more of them would come as word got out. might be cool if major companies started accounts to be able to post their updates. they might stop to read the forums while they're here. but the idea is to start small. we would only need our chat client to start with and then let our developers join in.
i guess i don't know how difficult this kind of a set up would be to implement but the idea seems like a logical extension of what goes on here. just as macfixit and VT are linked. of course we would have a limitation that the others don't - ONLY os x software. and maybe x11 software in a seperate listing. people are complaining on the other sites how pure os x and x11 apps are all bunched together. but again, i'm really thinking most developers would host their own download site. we'd just host a link and desrciption section similar to VT - only maybe simpler. if we had some space like this guy's xserve, then maybe we could help provide the space for some of the ones just starting to develop until they see people are using their apps. maybe limit the app size to 1-2 mb or less.

just thinking out loud here cause i'm naive as to how all this translates in bandwidth and cost. i'm obviously not trying to figure out new ways for you to spend more money. but people are obviously paying good money to advertise on similar sites. so down the line it might pay for itself and more.

fryke has also suggested that perhaps some of the mods could get involved in trying to sell real advertising for the site at profitable rates. not just waiting for people to contact us, but actually marketing the site. not a bad idea if someone is willing.
 

edX

mac shaman
well, it appears you updated the vb. the quick reply is gone and the admin page warns me that i can't enter until install.php is removed. (i was going to start adding mods to the new forums).

i've also been moving a few threads into the new forums as well. i think i'm ready to replace the entire system and misc software crew. i thought i was just looking for stuff that went in the new forums but i found way too much stuff that should have already been moved. lots of them were buried deep in page numbers there and yet were still on the first page of the correct forum. and with no replies. :(

so smoothie says he spends about 5 grand a year supporting macfora. is that about what this site costs? if so, i'm amazed you've gone this long with supporting it. even half that is a lot.
 

ScottW

Founder
Staff member
Yea, that is what we spend, minus cost of software for VB, Gallery, some of the backend tools we use on the site, etc. I think its funny when people act like its a $10/month cost and no big deal.

Well, our donations have dropped off significantly. I plan on bringing the site back probably tonight, once I have some time to get our "hacks" added back onto the website and get permissions setup correctly on the member forums.

I think its funny to read how some people believe that if PERSON A runs 3 websites, and 1 website of 3 makes income, that income from one of the 3 sites should finance the other 2 sites. That's like a political view some people say that PERSON A makes a lot more than PERSON B,C & D therefore PERSON B,C & D are somehow owed money from PERSON A.

I would only ask for contributions if I need them.

BTW Ed, I saw you said we don't have any paid advertisers. We do now and then, but it's so insignificant it doesn't even make a dent. The iTunes ad is one of the first paid ads in a year. We also will have a new one starting in a week or so, that came on board cause we are asking for contributions.

Hopefully, we can provide some value-added features that will encourage people to donate on-going (not the same people, but new people) so we don't have to do something drastic like this again anytime soon.
 

edX

mac shaman
Originally posted by ScottW
Yea, that is what we spend, minus cost of software for VB, Gallery, some of the backend tools we use on the site, etc. I think its funny when people act like its a $10/month cost and no big deal.
obviously i'm naive, but i would have thought around $600 to $1,000 a year. which is still a lot for the average joe to fork out for a non-profit site. i told Smoothie thanks for what he does, let me also say THANKS to you as well.

Well, our donations have dropped off significantly. I plan on bringing the site back probably tonight, once I have some time to get our "hacks" added back onto the website and get permissions setup correctly on the member forums.
yea, as soon as you get that 'install.php' file out of there i'll add the mods. gia also suggested this might be a good time to offer a choice or two of styles/colors. even if it was just making one or two of the previous styles available i think that's a positive idea. even if the alternatives don't carry all the features of the main style. also might not be a bad idea to add a few more smilies. nothing as absurd as what macfora has, but maybe another dozen would be nice. another something people have asked for in the past.

I think its funny to read how some people believe that if PERSON A runs 3 websites, and 1 website of 3 makes income, that income from one of the 3 sites should finance the other 2 sites. That's like a political view some people say that PERSON A makes a lot more than PERSON B,C & D therefore PERSON B,C & D are somehow owed money from PERSON A.
i understand people seeing it like that because lots of businesses operate that way. i think people tend to forget/not realize that you're just an average guy with a day job and a family and not some internet conglomerate. and of course lots of our members are 'kids' who simply have no concept of money and financial responsibility. they expect people to give them everything just like their parents do.

I would only ask for contributions if I need them.
i know this. while i don't agree with the closing of the site to accomplish this, i certainly agree that you shouldn't be footing the whole bill out of your pocket. and if this has worked well enough that you don't feel stressed finaniacially for now, then who am i to judge. i do think we ought to talk sometime about your 'impulsive' behaviors though. :D

BTW Ed, I saw you said we don't have any paid advertisers. We do now and then, but it's so insignificant it doesn't even make a dent. The iTunes ad is one of the first paid ads in a year. We also will have a new one starting in a week or so, that came on board cause we are asking for contributions.
cool. hopefully more will follow. i still agree with fryke that setting rates and being proactive in seeking advertisers is a good idea. you might remeber that i made a living for 7 years publishing a 'free' newspaper. my money came solely thru advertising sales. and people who sold ads got their commissions. they were the only paid help i had.

Hopefully, we can provide some value-added features that will encourage people to donate on-going (not the same people, but new people) so we don't have to do something drastic like this again anytime soon.
again, very agreed. i do believe that expanding the site beyond just the basic forums could do this. the download section would be a start and i'm sure there are others. which reminds me - twister asked about having a site widget for konfabulator. this sounds like another good idea. it sounded like he was even willing to work on it with the right help from you.
 

edX

mac shaman
oh, and i just wanted to repeat my request that you let the mods back in sooner if possible. i just sent them all a letter giving them the bare bones of what's happening. i'd like to be able to dicuss things with them before they are confronted by the masses. and in regards to thier duties with the changes.

thanks.
 
Top