Why Apple can't disable OS 9 booting completely

My Soultion is of course... Time to reinvest in Apple... and do away with the OS- 9 programs and offer people who have OS-9 programs good one time only rebates to pay for the new OS X programs etc.

Invest in Apple means... Future... If you continue to rely on old tech... like your Quick Silver's etc... and the old tech Mac's... Mac is surely going to suffer... New Machines do call for drastic measures... Who will be for it... and who will whine about it being way to much...
 
If you continue to rely on old tech... like your Quick Silver's etc...
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I'd hardly call Quicksilvers old tech! There's not much between them and your current model.

I'd be happy to get rid of OS 9 right now if Quark would sort themselves out and give us what we're waiting for, but you can't just expect everyone to jump straight to new machines. While you might well have the luxury of getting a new G4/G5 or whatever as you please, there are people out there still using Quadras and Performas. When they get a chance to eventually upgrade, maybe to an iBook, to make that step to OS X, they're going to want some return on their investment before it becomes unsupported and obsolete. And they're not going to be able to afford to replace all their software in one shot, discounted or not.
 
Originally posted by Factor41
I'd hardly call Quicksilvers old tech! There's not much between them and your current model.

I'd be happy to get rid of OS 9 right now if Quark would sort themselves out and give us what we're waiting for, but you can't just expect everyone to jump straight to new machines. While you might well have the luxury of getting a new G4/G5 or whatever as you please, there are people out there still using Quadras and Performas. When they get a chance to eventually upgrade, maybe to an iBook, to make that step to OS X, they're going to want some return on their investment before it becomes unsupported and obsolete. And they're not going to be able to afford to replace all their software in one shot, discounted or not.
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You're right I should not have said QuickSilver. but the point is waiting for Quark to go OS-X... is ridiculous... Surely there are other programs like Quark one can by for OS-X.

I still believe that people need to change with the times.
 
Yeah, there's InDesign, which is possibly better than Quark and if it was just a case of one user, one computer, sure, just change, but when you have a whole production process using Macs, Imagesetters, CTP, all sorts of RIPs and whatnot, plus your entire customerbase, and a lot of specialised software which you simply cannot get for OS X, you've got to be patient. This is why Apple haven't just told Quark to go jump. Its a whole process that you need to change and it'd be a whole lot smoother a transition if you could at least have an X version of Quark to use as a starting point.

I do agree with your sentiment - we do need to get on to X and push the platform forward. Lets just not try to run before we have any legs.
 
Originally posted by Factor41
Yeah, there's InDesign, which is possibly better than Quark and if it was just a case of one user, one computer, sure, just change, but when you have a whole production process using Macs, Imagesetters, CTP, all sorts of RIPs and whatnot, plus your entire customerbase, and a lot of specialised software which you simply cannot get for OS X, you've got to be patient. This is why Apple haven't just told Quark to go jump. Its a whole process that you need to change and it'd be a whole lot smoother a transition if you could at least have an X version of Quark to use as a starting point.

I do agree with your sentiment - we do need to get on to X and push the platform forward. Lets just not try to run before we have any legs.
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I again agree...

The future of Mac depends on both it's loyal customers... "Switchers also like me" and of course Software developers...
 
Well, looks like they've gone and done it, no more OS9 booting with Quark still many moons away. Not totally convinced by the premium priced OS9-ables so now's Adobe's chance to get InDesign the market it once had with PageMaker. Brave move by Apple risking losing people to Quark on Windows (maybe), but as a wise man once said, "the people crazy enough to think they can change the [printing] world, are the ones who do"
 
What happens now to the people with new Macs who need a disk fixing program thanks to disk errors? All the current disk utility CDs won't boot a new Mac, so we have to wait for Disk Warrior 3*, and even then will it work with OS Xs UNIX permissions as well as it did in OS 9? I really hope so...but somehow amidst these OS X problems like files that never delete, permissions conflicts that didn't exist under OS 9, and the fact that a sudden power off will cause huge directory errors that don't happen on 9, I wonder if OS X, after already having had 3 revisions, will ever really have the same solid file structure OS 9 had.
In 9, I could pull the plug and have things working fine on reboot. On X though I run Disk Utility and always find errors in the drive...

*Drive 10, while bootable in X, has never fixed all the problems on my drive and is really expensive for what it offers.
 
Apple had little choice to kill booting in to 9 on new machines for two reasons...

1) OS 9 requires hardware enablers for each new piece of hardware it needs to run on. This requires a significant amount of work on Apple's part to create, maintain and troubleshoot...

2) If Apple keeps supporting OS 9, people will not feel compelled to adopt OS X, which means developers won't be as quick to develop for it, which makes the entire platform as a whole weaker, and diminishes sales of new computers, the area where Apple makes it's money.

As for Quark...

Based on Xpress 5.0's sales (which are abysmal), and 6.0's proposed feature set (which is weak) and expected upgrade price (which is quite high compared to other upgrades), I think you've witnessed the beginning of the end for Quark. Their customer base begrudgingly sticks with them, and are always looking for a lifeboat off the platform. InDesign 2 is that lifeboat. The only question is when to jump ship.

It's no wonder why it's taking Xpress so long to Carbonize their app. It's really a poorly written piece of software. Even on OS 9, it still uses so many old API calls, it'll be a miracle if it makes a mid 2003 release.

InDesign has a long way to go before it dethrones Xpress, but it's momentum is building, and Quark has yet to offer any compelling reasons not to switch.... (unless you really like working in OS 9 and dig constant system wide crashes)...
 
Something nobody has suggested as to a solution for the problem this thread proposed:
Select the OS 9 install disk (bootable) as your classic system, under the Classic PrefPane. Then run Classic, run the installer to install 9 on your HD, shut down classic, and tell classic's prefpane to use the OS 9 now on disk for Classic.
I haven't tried this, but I presume it works. Anybody care to try?
 
As you can backup your preinstalled 'Classic' system folder by just copying it, it's no real problem. OS 9 doesn't need to be 'installed', a simple _copy_ of an OS 9 installation will do.

Btw.: The OS 9 CD _can't_ be used as Classic environment afaik.
 
All the bad you can write on XPress I agree with. However your 'lifeboat' writes PostScript Level 3 whereas my printhouse is PostScript 2 equipped. Changing RIP would cost them over €15 000 ($15.000), hence they will not change until the RIP dies (and that's in a long time).

Quark may be old. But PostScript 2 is old too. As far as my knowledge goes in prepress, I can assure you Quark XPress 4.11 combined to Acrobat Distiller 4.0 produce the best PDF 1.4 (Acrobat PDF 4.0) stuff ever for PostScript Level 2 RIPs.

It's a question of compatibility: computers evolve very much faster than RIPs. The DTP industry needs CTP software that works with the RIPs, they don't need Quartz Extreme and new fancy browsers.

In one line, I need the software that goes with my RIP. This software needs OS9. I'm fixed.

(Plus, I must tell you OS9 has not crashed for about 6 months at home.)

Originally posted by serpicolugnut
InDesign 2 is that lifeboat. The only question is when to jump ship.

(...) compelling reasons not to switch.... (unless you really like working in OS 9 and dig constant system wide crashes)...
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I wonder if some genius will write a hack utility to boot into OS 9 on the new powerbooks and powermacs. I certainly hope so, as my music software, MOTU's Digital Performer, does not exist for OS X yet. I'll let everyone know if I find a solution myself...
 
I think they don't want the computers to boot into OS 9 because if you can boot into OS 9, all the security of OS X is worthless. You can access everything in 9. If they want to get the corporate market's attention, they'll have to eliminate security holes like that. (a lesson M$ could learn from) :)
 
Anyone notice I hit the nail right on the head with my quick Power Mac prediction of 1.4 GHz? Well, they're actually 1.42, but still! That's pretty darn accurate for a playful guess! :) Maybe I should start a site and get banned from Apple Expos like the other sites last summer! Cool!
 
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