Why I don't think Panther 7B85 is GM

Captain Code

Captain Code

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As every rumor mill states, 7B85 is supposed to be the GM, but that build contains (old)development builds of some programs such as PERL 5.8.1-RC3, while 5.8.1 Release is out already.

There are other versions of other unix programs that are not final versions in 7B85, even though there are final versions out now.

But I guess we will see in a few weeks when people get their Panther box.
 
My own "rumour mill" for example has stated doubts about 7B85 being the final version, Captain! ;-)

There might be some reason for Apple not to use newer versions of certain UN*X software. They might also issue these things in an update down the lane. It's not _that_ important to always use the newest version of everything. Sometimes it's more important to keep at a certain status and make sure that the whole machine runs stable.

My guess is that Perl was kept at RC3 for some such reason... Or it was simply forgotten. But the Final Candidate phase's issues are more on the not-so-unixy side of Mac OS X, i.e. the UI fixes and stability issues with applications/utilities.
 
Well there is also the fact that Panther crashes and burns with my GeForce card, but most people probably know about that by now :D

Further evidence from the Apple student developer's mailing list. Names are taken out to preserve privacy, although this is a public list and anyone on it will have seen these emails already:

On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 02:23 PM, ADC member wrote:

I don't care.... I DO want to talk about it.. or rather gripe about it..

Panther (B85) is just totally unusable for me.. QE accelerated scrolling and live window dragging produces total garbage. I can't believe that they either didn't know about this bug, or simply ignored it.
I hope that B85 is not the final...

and samba is at 3.0rc2, and they have a 3.0 final out, so I that also makes me think this is not the final version.

here is some screen captures of it in action:
http://osex.homeftp.org/B85_QE_Fu**ed2.jpg
http://osex.homeftp.org/B85_QE_Fu**ed1.jpg

anyone else have this problem?


btw, I have a G4 500 (agp 2x) with a geforce2mx (from a quicksilver 733)

On 8-Oct-03, at 7:50 AM, another ADC member wrote:
- Are we WWDC people (and others with legal access to seeds) still under NDA until it ships, or can we start talking about it without fear of Apple's Black Ops Commandos?
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It looks like the author took the screen shots offline, but I can guess as to what they looked like because it sounds exactly like what happens for me.
 
Hmm... However: ADC members still haven't even got 7B85, so... ;-)

My guess is that soon enough, ADC members will get the GM build (whatever number that really is), because Apple needs some time to package it.

I can't say much about that GeForce 2mx issue, but I haven't heard of people who have 'original' Macs with that card speak up... Does nobody on here own such a Mac?

Still, The provided driver shouldn't produce garbage in the final build of Panther, I'm sure... But maybe Apple _did_ f*** up with this and Panther final _will_ have these problems?
 
Well, some ADC members have it ;)

There has been one person that said their GeForce2 mx has worked fine, but that's only one out of at least 5 people that I know of.

Anyways, I hope they do fix this, and that 7B85 isn't the GM because I really want to buy Panther, but I don't want to have to buy it plus a new vid card. :(
 
Beside the point about the bugs that are supposed to be in 7b85, why would it be important to know, if 7b85 is the GM? I mean, could you use the beta as the final release? Would you be able to install the upcoming software-updates on the beta? Does the beta run for lifetime, or is there any limitation?
I am asking since I got the feeling, some ppl might stay with their betas and not go for the GM...
 
Simple example from the past (and that's all we know, right?):

6C106 was a late beta of Jaguar.
6C115 was GM.

Both were seeded to ADC Select and Premier members.

Now, if someone was to 'get' 6C106 and install that and stay there, he simply couldn't update to 10.2.1. I'm not sure whether the betas have an expiration-date (Public Beta of 10.0 did), but they're not updatable, as the updaters look at the build numbers etc. Maybe you could trick the updater by manually doing something to the system, but I don't think so.

However, there's a simple rule. If you're an ADC member and have access to the betas, you also get the GM version of the operating system. Sent to your house. And via download.

If you're _not_ getting the betas and the GM from Apple, you buy the software. Simple.
 
I used 7B49 for some time and iCal expired one day. So the same thing will happen with 7B85, I guess. That's why I'm not getting 7B85 and rather wait for the GM version.
 
Originally posted by lucasraggers
I used 7B49 for some time and iCal expired one day. So the same thing will happen with 7B85, I guess. That's why I'm not getting 7B85 and rather wait for the GM version.
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By "GM version" do you mean "retail version?"

If 7B85 is, in fact, the GM build it should be update-able via Software Update. When Jaguar was coming out I had 6C115 from ADC installed on my Desktop system. Over time, it was updated to 10.2.6...
 
Today, Software Update ran because of an iSync update. There haven't been any other updates in 10.3 except the test one, this is one reason. The second is, all of the iApps were updated in every new build of Panther, and if in fact there would be coming a new version, Apple would add the updated iSync in that version. Just like they did with all the builds. They wouldn't make it available trough Software Update. Think about it. :)
Originally posted by Captain Code
There is also the fact that Panther crashes and burns with my GeForce card
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Maybe something for 10.3.1? Not every single bug was fixed for 10.2 GM, hence 10.2.8.
 
Originally posted by RPS
The second is, all of the iApps were updated in every new build of Panther,
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Well, yes they do update the iApps as well as the system so they would seed the updated versions with the new builds of Panther.

and if in fact there would be coming a new version, Apple would add the updated iSync in that version. Just like they did with all the builds. They wouldn't make it available trough Software Update. Think about it. :)
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I don't think Apple tells Software update not to get a new version of an app just because it's a beta. I bet if you ran SU on an even earlier build than 7B85 that it'd still find and install the new iSync.

Maybe something for 10.3.1? Not every single bug was fixed for 10.2 GM, hence 10.2.8.
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I would hope not. They didn't get(and I doubt ever will) all the bugs worked out, but this is a major bug which makes the system completely unusable. I would hope Apple doesn't release something that doesn't work with hardware they shipped.
 
Originally posted by Captain Code
Well, yes they do update the iApps as well as the system so they would seed the updated versions with the new builds of Panther.
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Well that's not really important for you, because if you buy Panther a month later, you will have run Software Update to update the then-updated apps.


I don't think Apple tells Software update not to get a new version of an app just because it's a beta. I bet if you ran SU on an even earlier build than 7B85 that it'd still find and install the new iSync.
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Well there were several updates of iSync, that weren't in Software Update. Included in the install disc. Now that they use Software Update to give it to you, I think that's because you're not going to get a disc with the update on it. Of course Apple will tell SU not to give up the update if it's a beta. Just like they won't Give a 10.3.1 beta update on SU. You'll have to wait for final 10.3.1 to get that trough SU. They also didn't give up some iChat 2 beta trough SU, they gave _the_ public beta. They won't give random builds trough SU, until it's at some kind of final stage.


I would hope not. They didn't get(and I doubt ever will) all the bugs worked out, but this is a major bug which makes the system completely unusable. I would hope Apple doesn't release something that doesn't work with hardware they shipped.
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Yeah me too, but they still could. They could release it and release a minor bug fix of the prolem the same night.
 
Originally posted by RPS
Well that's not really important for you, because if you buy Panther a month later, you will have run Software Update to update the then-updated apps.
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It depends though on whether or not you can upgrade from a beta to the GM, which from reports, you won't be able to do. It says this in the installer too, so if you have the updated iApps then it won't matter because you will be doing a clean install. I suppose if you didn't wipe your HD, and didn't install the apps from the GM cds then you might not have to download the updated ones again but that'd be risky as they might not all work with the GM version of Panther.

Well there were several updates of iSync, that weren't in Software Update. Included in the install disc. Now that they use Software Update to give it to you, I think that's because you're not going to get a disc with the update on it. Of course Apple will tell SU not to give up the update if it's a beta. Just like they won't Give a 10.3.1 beta update on SU. You'll have to wait for final 10.3.1 to get that trough SU. They also didn't give up some iChat 2 beta trough SU, they gave _the_ public beta. They won't give random builds trough SU, until it's at some kind of final stage.
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I think this is because those updates that came on the cd were still development builds, so they aren't going to put that on the SU server. The one that was just released is a final version so they would put it on the SU server for everyone to get.

Yeah me too, but they still could. They could release it and release a minor bug fix of the prolem the same night.
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If they did that I wouldn't mind, but I would like it to be within a week of the shipping date of Panther because I really want to get the final!
 
Originally posted by Captain Code
It depends though on whether or not you can upgrade from a beta to the GM, which from reports, you won't be able to do.
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I still don't actually believe these reports. I think it's a fifty-fity chance you won't be able to. Although I think 85 _is_ the final, so that would make it so it _was_ updateable.


I think this is because those updates that came on the cd were still development builds, so they aren't going to put that on the SU server. The one that was just released is a final version so they would put it on the SU server for everyone to get.
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Yeah, that's what I said. We agree on that. :)


If they did that I wouldn't mind, but I would like it to be within a week of the shipping date of Panther because I really want to get the final!
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We agree on that too. :)
 
I still have problems with Safari 1.1 on 7B85... installed on my Dual and even an iMac 17" 1Ghz...

Still stops working when I open a menu... while version 1.0 work ok with the system...

At least mine cannot be the Final...
10.2.8 is not good on network... 7B85 looks better for me, but I have to test more...
 
No problems here…

Captain Code - I haven't seen or heard of any users having issues with the GeForece 2MX that originally shipped with their Mac. Most of the reports I've seen were users who, like yourself, either flashed an off the shelf product -or- placed a Mac OEM card from, say a Quicksilver, in their older G4.

I'll have to try to get my hands on a box that actually shipped with a 2MX and see if I have any problems. Then I think there would be true cause for concern. Of course this could be a G3 debacle all over again…
 
cybergoober - Yes that seems to be the problem: The cards don't work in G4s older than the card in Panther. While I can see how Apple could have not expected this bug, it's been there for a very long time. It might be a very hard buy to fix though, so I can see that it might take a few months at least to fix it. I just hope they fix it before the release, or release a fix soon after.
 
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