Why is Java STILL bad in OSX?

D

DrHogie

Registered
All I keep hearing about Java on OSX is how wonderful Java works. Yet I STILL have yet to find a Java applet that works under OSX.

I've been trying to get

A few examples of applets that don't work in OSX:

http://zone.msn.com/bejeweled
http://games.com (all the different games)
http://chat.yahoo.com

I'm sure there's others. I've tried in IE, Omniweb, Mozilla/Chimera -- nothing in any of them. Apple is all about beaming about how well Java runs in OSX -- have they just forgotten the applet side of things?

BTW -- I know at least Bejeweled and Yahoo! Chat runs in OS9, so the Macness isn't the problem. So I guess I have two questions:

1) Are there any plug-ins that just plain don't get installed with OSX? Something that should be in Software Update that isn't? Or am I missing that big flashing red neon sign in front of me that says "GET JAVA WORKING HERE".

2) This is a BIG problem with OSX. Like it or not, there's a number of big sites that use Java a lot -- sites that (unless I'm missing something obvious) OSX plain can not access. My wife is an OS9 user, and while trying to get het to convert to OSX, she saw that none of the Java sites she goes to worked -- of course she has flat out refused to convert. I just can't see how Apple is pushing OSX without solving this issue.

My settings: OSX 10.1.5, 500 MHz iceBook w/ 256MB RAM, IE 5.1.4, Mozilla 1.0 Final

Any help with this will be VERY gladly appreciated :)

EDIT:
Okay -- after searching through the forum like I should have to begin with *cower* -- I found the MRJ Plug-In for Mozilla/Netscape -- it reached 1.0 on 5/30. So, I dropped it into the /Library/Internet Plug-Ins folder and gave it a whirl. The Chat Applet at http://chat.yahoo.com loaded up fine about 10 seconds after the 'applet loaded' message appeared at the bottom. Bejeweled started up, downloaded all the graphics and information -- and then proceeded to lock up Mozilla. Now, my hard drive just spins and spins and spins whenever I try to re-load Mozilla.

So, there is semi-working Java support in Mozilla that you have to download a separate plugin for. IE just plain doesn't seem to work. Why has Apple just neglected this part of OSX?

Moderator Edit: Removed language from subject
 
The Mozilla project is actually in charge of the Java Plug-in development. If you are having problems using it, please submit it as a bug on Mozilla.org. They would highly appreciate it.

Apple released their Java framework API relatively late to Mozilla, and that is partially the reason for the somewhat belated support for Java in Mozilla. At present, I think only Mozilla and IE supports Java (in terms of browsers), hopefully this would change soon. IE's Java support has always been somewhat lacking - their version of Java is not Java2 compliant.

I find it somewhat amusing that the Java applet that is giving you the most problem is actually on MSN.com.

Instead of using the Java version of Yahoo! IM, you might want to checkout their OS X IM app, or 3rd part IM apps like Fire.
 
apple likes to tout their platform as a premier platform for java development, because they provide a native java API to the OS. it is the only OS (other than solaris from sun) that does anything like this. however, the browser situation for OSX is presently in a pretty sorry state. that is the reason that the web site applets that you view don t work so well
 
I find java apps extremely slow on OSX though. I use ArgoUML and Poseidon for UML and whilst these apps run extremely well on Win32 OSes, they run too slowly for use on OSX.

Functionally they are fine, it is just the speed.

R.
 
Thanks for all the help everyone :) PhatSharpie, I do use Fire quite quite often -- those apps were mainly for my wife, who is still running OS9 on her iBook. This whole thread was started when I was showing her OSX on my iBook and why she should switch. When she found out that none of her Java applet-sites would run right, she said she had no reason to switch, and so started my quest to find out wtf is going on :)

At any rate, Java is now working in Mozilla, but I still can't get any Java apps to run whatsoever in IE -- tho I haven't downloaded 5.2 yet.

Thanks again :)
 
Sometimes Applet Launcher is really good for running java applets

it is in Applications/Utilities/

you just type the url of a page with an applet on it, it extracts the relevant code and runs the applet in its own window, no more overhead of your browser!!

note: some times an applet may be in a frame in your browser so control click just outside the applet and go to open frame in new window, then you can copy the url and paste into applet launcher.


Applet launcher also keeps a list of the applets you have used. Easy to get back to your chat without having to find the url again!

here is an example,

http://www.asb.co.nz/calculators/forex-calculator.asp
copy and paste that into applet launcher!



i tried your test links, and they didnt seem to work.
I have never notcied that some applets dont load.
Hopefully all will be fixed in 10.2

edit: it dosent always work!
 
apple likes to tout their platform as a premier platform for java development, because they provide a native java API to the OS. it is the only OS (other than solaris from sun) that does anything like this.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the ability to write a JAVA app and compile it into an OS X only application? I've did this several times and found it to work extremely well. I'm not sure since I've never tried it, but I've been told there are some commercial software development applications for Windows like JBuilder that allow you to compile windows only executables as well.

For those that may be lost, normally an application written in JAVA is compiled in virtual machine code that allows it to run via the Java Virtual Machine on any OS. So it does not need to be recompiled for each platform. The drawback is that sometimes running a JAVA app via the virtual machine can cause the app to run slower than an app compiled in native machine code specfically for the hardware used with your platform, i.e. x86 code vs. PPC code. With the OS X Developer Tools, you can compile your JAVA app into OS X PPC machine code and therefore enable the app to run natively without the virtual machine. I personally think it would be great to be able to write an application in JAVA and then be able to compile it with absolutely no code changes into a native executable without the need for virtual machine translation layer. I think the crossplatform compatibility of compiling apps to run via the virtual machine is best left for JAVA apps delivered via the web. This is what makes JAVA so great!!!

Crossplatform Portability and Compatibility!!!
 
Originally posted by RHITMacMan
With the OS X Developer Tools, you can compile your JAVA app into OS X PPC machine code and therefore enable the app to run natively without the virtual machine.
Click to expand...
This is not true.
The only thing native is the user interface. Everything else is still Java.

Make a Control Click on one of your apps you have made and click view Contents.
Somewhere inside are still the Java Classes (or a .jar file)
Everything you have done in Java is still Java Bytecode and runs in the VM.
 
That's quite interesting. I was under a totally different impression. I'll have to check this out. The question is, does it still use the virtual machine? If what you state is true, I would think it might have to. Although, it does some funny things. If I run a .jar or .class file I get the JAVA GUI interface layout, if I run the Developer tools developed app, I get the native OS X interface layouts like you state.
 
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