Why the AOL and Netscape hating?

Izzy

Izzy

luv my lil' malteaser
Hey all...being somewhat new to these here boards I've been trying to figure something out. Why is it that there is what seems to be a hatred for all things AOL related? LOL...I'm almost afraid to admit around here that I've been an AOL user ever since it started (man, those were the pre WWW days!) and I've never had any problems with it. Customer service has always been friendly and helpful, and pretty much wherever I've gone I have been able to find a local access number. It's easy enough to use for my parents, who aren't that great at using computers, and IM lets me talk to all of my friends with no hitches. I've never had a problem with the software and don't see why AOL is so villified round these parts. Is there something I'm missing? I mean, they must be doing something right when Microsoft has targeted them now for years and has tried to do whatever they could to share the IM members.

And on that same note, what is the same hatred for Netscape caused by? I remember back in the day I used Communicator all the time and never had any problems. Did they become the "enemy" when AOL acquired them? I don't really know...

Sorry if this post makes some of you roll your eyes (like this --->:rolleyes: ), but I'm a curious one.

Uh oh...but wasn't it curiousity that killed the cat? *gulp*

*Izzy holds Pismo in front of his head, braces himself for responses*

(I mean, they wouldn't do anything to hurt a powerbook now would they? would they?!)
 
Don't worry, most of it is just friendly argueing. There are some on here (not naming names :)) who aren't to fond of AOL and anything associated with it. Most of it isn't argueing over AOL as the ISP, but AOL's relationship with mozilla. Anyways no need to worry you will not be looked down upon for using AOL. Right everyone? ;)
 
My family used AOL for like 3 years until we got cable internet. I personally thought it was pretty good (besides the fact it took forever to signon). I, myself, would probably be using AOL right now if it weren't for school .. everything we do now is on the internet so it's nice to have a speedy connection. ;)
 
Originally posted by rinse
AOL = the fake internet
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Why is that? I'm lost here :confused:

You get full internet access with AOL...you can even use any browser you want with the service. Just because they offer their own easy use areas for beginners doesn't make them a "fake internet"...Apple makes things easy for beginners and by no means is "the fake computer"
 
izzy, the last times i have had to use aol, the beginners area is so confusing that most beginners can't find the real internet. and if you have been with them from the start, you should be able to remember when it was damn near impossible. and if you found your way out you still might not get out for lack of available connections.

this is one of those questions that i have answered at length in the "fastest browser" thread. if you really want to know where my strong stance against them started, then start here.
 
The AOL/Netscape hating is related to 1) bloated software and 2) Mac user treatment.

On point #1:

Maybe AOL is a good way to connect to the internet, but their software is just bloated as hell. All those advertisements and banners and the sounds and all the useless crap. AOL should just allow you to install software that is simply a CONNECTION to the internet, and allow you to go from there.

Their software is also not that user-friendly. I have had many a time when people call because they are having problems with AOL or they can't figure out how to do something. It's not good software.

Oh, and then there's the fact that every single version is an integer increment. 5.0, 6.0, 7.0. NOTHING is new except a NEW USER INTERFACE that's still bloated as hell. That really aggravates me so much. Version 7.0 should only probably be version 2.1 if it were up to me to give the version numbers to their software. They never add any useful functionality, but they're always on TV with their (insert snooty voice here)"AOL new version 7.0 is the BEST EVER!"(stop snooty voice here). It's just the attitude of the company that really, really, REALLY aggravates me, and I'm sure this is also why Ed hates AOL too.

About Netscape: since AOL gobbled up Netscape, they are releasing nothing but utter crap. Version 4.7.9 is probably the last useful version, but that still has the annoying problem of hanging on startup if you don't have a network connection and other stuff. Netscape 6 is bloatware all the way -- My Sidebar is just a bunch of advertisement and useless stuff. Plus, supposedly if you use the Search that's built-in to Netscape, they send your search items to AOL's central server, effectively making Netscape spyware. OmniWeb is a much better web browser (even if it is slow and doesn't support all standards yet), because it provides USEFUL features, like advertisement and pop-up blocking, and the ability to turn off JavaScript unless the user specifically allows it to be invoked.

It's this company attitude that makes me miffed at AOL and Netscape, and has turned me away from their products and services.

About point #2:

Do you see AOL version 6.0 (real version #: 2.0.1) or AOL version 7.0 (real version #: 2.1) on the Mac? Of course not. Because Macintosh users are given the back seat. AOL/Netscape doesn't seem to care about us Mac users even though it garners significant profit from us, without a doubt. Another case in point: AOL UK has opted not to create a version of AOL UK 5.0 for Mac OS X. That's silly.

I don't like to support a company that relegates Macintosh users to worse customer service and support in terms of their software. You may have had friendly service, but that is not usually the case, at least in my experiences.


These are the main things that make me hate AOL/Netscape. Personally, Mozilla and Chimera aren't as big a deal to me, since they actually have PROMISE to be a good product, and they're hella fast. But I'm still not switching until the developers show that they are willing to put useful features in: javascript disabling, popup ad disabling, and advertisement blocking, and NO spyware. Until then, I'm sticking to OmniWeb.
 
People have a variety of qualms with AOL, directly and indirectly. The 'fake internet' paradigm is one given to AOL because it is sometimes seen as a large corporation's version of the world wide web, open to censorship, solicitation, with a candy-coating that, uhh, melts in your mouth but not in your hand?

Sorry that was kinda' a stretch...

You got that big brother stuff and a history of absurd billing practices, service unreliability, and unqualified technical support that have become the butt of jokes of other internet users over the years. Also, since AOL marketing primarily targets those that have only begun hunting and pecking, and want to jump on the internet bandwagon so they can email and surf the web, AOL users are presumed to have generally boorish behaviors and be devoid of actual online etiquette.

Gaw, I remember back in the day cycling through my parent's credit cards so I could get free hours upon free hours of access months in a row. It was indeed really easy to use, offering chat, news, special interests, some multimedia, inexhaustible freeware/shareware/updates archives. But that also came with its limitations and annoyances.

All in all it's like eating baby food. It's easier to swallow because you don't have to go through the motions of chewing, but on the other hand it only comes in small set glass jars, with the peculiar textures of strained carrots, mashed peas, and puree'd squash.

Makin' sense now?
 
Originally posted by simX
Another case in point: AOL UK has opted not to create a version of AOL UK 5.0 for Mac OS X. That's silly.
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I've never used AOL, or even seen it used another than a few brief seconds on TV. It's not available in our area :)eek: yes there are still places!). But if as you say, the newer versions of AOL are simply new interfaces on top of the old feature set, why would you be miffed that they didn't bring out version 5.0 (2.0.3?) in the U.K.?
 
I dont know about netscae, I love em :p
AOL though I hate, why ?

Bloated software, spam spam spam spam spam, and the fact that *most* users are complete dimwits :p --- not to mention the fact that they pay $23 per month for something they could get for $9, and all this for what ? so that they dont go through their mail account saying to all their friends "hey I am changing email" -- idiots :p


heck MSN aint any better :p -- I know someone who bought DSL, but KEPT his MSN account for a looong time so that he wouldnt lose his email (at $20 per month!)



Admiral
 
Originally posted by Jadey


I've never used AOL, or even seen it used another than a few brief seconds on TV. It's not available in our area :)eek: yes there are still places!). But if as you say, the newer versions of AOL are simply new interfaces on top of the old feature set, why would you be miffed that they didn't bring out version 5.0 (2.0.3?) in the U.K.?
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Because we're talking about AOL 5.0 for MAC OS X. All of the UK customers are going to be stuck using OS 9 if they want to use AOL. And this fact just shows that Mac users in the UK are even worse off than Mac users in the US, which are relegated to the back seat anyway. It's not that I want the new versions, it's just the attitude of not making new versions for the Mac.
 
Originally posted by AdmiralAK
I dont know about netscae, I love em :p
AOL though I hate, why ?

Bloated software, spam spam spam spam spam, and the fact that *most* users are complete dimwits :p --- not to mention the fact that they pay $23 per month for something they could get for $9, and all this for what ? so that they dont go through their mail account saying to all their friends "hey I am changing email" -- idiots :p


heck MSN aint any better :p -- I know someone who bought DSL, but KEPT his MSN account for a looong time so that he wouldnt lose his email (at $20 per month!)
Admiral
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Ouch...well I'm just gonna assume that I'm in the segment of the users that isn't a complete dimwit.

Also, we currently have no local area ISP's around me who offer this $9 service...and even if we did, I doubt I could visit family with my laptop and find a local access number. When I was in HS I did have for a time a local ISP service for 12.95/month, but it was such a pain in the butt. When I signed up they sent me windows software disks, even though I made sure that I made it clear I had a macintosh. When I finally did get the mac disks I had to set up the whole thing myself (and this was before I was super computer literate with all things TCP/IP related) becuase the customer support offices were always closed outside of normal business hours (I got home from school at 3.30, the offices closed at 3...who the heck closes at 3pm?!).

I've never once had a problem with AOL in terms of service interruption and I've always recieved courteous customer support in the billing department. I don't see how the AOL software is bloated...sure it has ads, but so do 99% of all web pages. I'm looking at the welcome page right now and I don't see how it could get any easier. There's a big button for email and all of the topics of interest are arranged along the left. My parents are about as computer illiterate as they come and they've never had a navigation problem.

I understand the beef with software availability, but the problem that we mac users have with getting software for AOL is the same problem we have with every other company that is cross platform. Software inevitably comes out for PC's first (unless you are dealing with the graphics industry)...this is something we have come to know from experience. All I know is that I'm able to stably run AOL under OSX with all the features I enjoyed before (which is more than I can say for Epson who I once was a big fan for, but now had to scrounge for hacked drivers to get my printer to work) and I can enjoy service from pretty much everywhere in the country without any added cost.

LOL...I know it's coming across like I'm just the biggest AOL fan in the world, but I'm not really. I use whatever works the best for me, and so far AOL has done the trick back home for my parents. At my apt. I have broadband access, and have dealt with the HORRIBLE customer support that is broadband net access...from my experience, AOL has treated me much better.

I guess my main point is...that yes, for experienced uses like ourselves AOL is not what you would call the dream service. But that doesn't mean it gives us the right to berate it and call it "fake" or their users "idiots" (If anything, we mac users know what it is like to be berated simply for liking something that works for us)...if local ISP's were as easy to set up and use, with their lower costs they should be making AOL lower prices...I don't see that happening. AOL does have a lot of advantages and isn't TOTALLY bad...give it a break... :p
 
You can safelly put yourself in the non-dimwit segment of teh AOL using population :p


Finding a cheap ISP is easy on the net. Thats how I found my ISP once my other ISP went belly up. I am paying $9.95 a month, unlimited acces.


Admiral
 
But can you visit a grandmother in St. Petersburg, cousins in Chicago, an uncle in California, and a grandmother an hour away and still get a local access number? This is the flexibility I love about AOL...no matter where I'm at I can plug in a continue as normal.

LOL...and thank you for the kind grouping ;)
 
Besides the general distaste for AOL for its increased ignorance of the Mac market recently... AOL is viewed by many as the next Microsoft. In fact, in many ways it is considered to be far worse than what Microsoft is now.

In fact, the sole reason AOL Time Warner isn't under investigation in the US for abusing monopoly power is because of the existence of Microsoft. In Europe it has already been the topic of possible investigations a few times.

It's hard to cheer for either side in the Microsoft vs. AOL fighting that's been going on... many, even at sites with exceptionally biased opinions against Microsoft, consider Microsoft to actually be the lesser of the two evils (and that's saying a lot).

AOL has for a long time been a technological joke of the computer world, but then again so was the Macintosh. This however isn't the basis for the strong resentment that has now been growing against the company, but rather the business practices and goals that have now been emerging from this media giant since the merger. I fully expect an antitrust suit to be filed by the federal government against AOL Time Warner in the coming years after Microsoft's demise. Expect the company to be broken up.

Cheers,
Dak
 
izzy - you seem to somehow be taking these as personal attacks and they are not. Hating a corporation and all it stands for is not the same as hating the people who do business with them or even all the individuals who work for them. I have one very good friend who has worked at several jobs - most of them with companies i despise. It doesn't make her a bad person.

and i think Admiral is right about there being a lot of alternatives available. you just need to look into them. my own experience is that simply connecting to an isp and then launching the appropriate app for whatever protocol i wish to participate in, is much easier for me and less confusing for my computer. recent experiences using my parent's aol are so full of crashes that it makes the effort not worth it (on a pc even).

and talking to a knowledgable tech person to learn how to configure everything is a great way for newer or less educated users to start learning more about their computers and how to do things for themselves rather than relying on everything to be done for them - an attitude that does wear thin when all it takes is a little effort to learn. You don't have to be a power user for there to be power in knowing your computer.

I continue to hold to my belief that we should support those that support us and aol really doesn't. just because this is the 'norm' doesn't make it right or even tolerable. We should be withdrawing support from all those companies that treat macs as an afterthought and putting our time and money into those companies that treat us as equals or better. aol is just such an easy target to identify when it comes to this attitude. there are plenty of others as you point out. but try to believe me when i say to you that if you support your enemy (and those who make us second class should be our enemies), then you support your own subjugation and demise. The reason the companies treat us this way is because we let them. I assure you they would all pay more attention if they could identify that 5% of profit losses were coming from their care less attitudes about the mac platform. I assure you companies like m$ wouldn't make software for the mac at all if there wasn't some profit in it somewhere.
 
LOL...Ed, no no my friend...I'm not taking any of these replies personally. You'd have to pretty much berate me personally to get any kind of a personal response out of me...i'm very easy going, but do have my own opinions. There are a lot of other bigger fishes to fry in life without worrying about silly things like my ISP provider. I enjoy the casual debate but wont ever take it too far (I should preface those previous posts with a calm and non-serious tone and demanor disclaimer :p ) . Thanks for your sincere reply though...it is appreciated.

I was just curious as to what the basis of all the hubub was about...I see your side of the story and agree your point does have some merit, but I also believe at the current time AOL is the best fit for my parents and myself as a sometimes traveler. I wish we could as mac users just not use the companies who take us for granted...but the issue is not as cut and dry as that...we'd be giving up a lot...and the transition would be a LONG is not painful one...not to mention the fact that Apple itself wouldn't sanction such a thing, they've partnered up with many of these "enemy" companies...
 
ok, one quick post here and then i've got to get to yard work:D

not to mention the fact that Apple itself wouldn't sanction such a thing, they've partnered up with many of these "enemy" companies...
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yes, this irks me as well. but i think we can safely say that apple has been forced into this because these companies have so succesfully dominated (even monopolized) the pc platform. It is because so many mac users choose to support these companies that apple must have alliances with them to maintain the user base for macs. I think apple would stop caring about them if mac users did too. I don't think anyone at apple enjoys seeing the macintosh platform being treated as second best by anybody.

as for visiting and connectivity. there are plenty of nationwide isp's. Apple promotes Earthlink. I don't really know much about Earthlink but i know they are apple friendly and advertise nationally. There are plenty of others that are small and only advertise on the net. and frankly aol doesn't have free connections everywhere you go. my sister had to connect to a local long distance when she visited me. and i live 35 miles from silicon valley.
 
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